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AAA Individual State Predictions


TalkingSense
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5 minutes ago, sx1234 said:

If other kids were doing the same, and seen by an official (really seen, not someone saying "of course they saw them too" or "how could they not see them") then those kids should have been disqualified as well.  

 

Also, for some of you, I don't believe you understand the difference in agreeing with a rule, and agreeing to abide by a rule. 

Ethan was outside the rules and there can be no doubt on that subject.  As for me I couldn't do this to a kid, be it right or wrong.  If that hints at a lack of ethics within myself as a sideline participant in this sport then I'll live with that.

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21 minutes ago, sx1234 said:

If other kids were doing the same, and seen by an official (really seen, not someone saying "of course they saw them too" or "how could they not see them") then those kids should have been disqualified as well.  

 

Also, for some of you, I don't believe you understand the difference in agreeing with a rule, and agreeing to abide by a rule. 

No, most of us do, but we also don’t as both a coach AND an official for sports other than wrestling that sometimes common sense needs to come into play. It’s one reason I won’t ref for high school, like in soccer they have a bunch of extra stupid rules they added like the 17 laws of the game weren’t enough they know better and added some more. 
      Some of us officials and coaches know better than to go looking for trouble. As an official if I saw what was happening nothing I could do about not enforcing that rule as much as I think it’s stupid. However as a coach my first responsibility is to wrestlers, heck even those that aren’t my own. I would again have said something to the coach and if that didn’t stop it I would have had the referees get involved. So don’t try and turn this into an ethics conversation because nothing of what was done was good ethics!

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3 hours ago, DAKEKO said:

Theres a code of ethics section in the back of every NFHS rule book. One for coaches and another for officials. Dont blame these 2 entities for following the rules and abiding by the code of ethics they agree to every year when they sign up. 

That is a good point DAKEKO. It truly is and it cannot be dismissed.  However, I just don't understand why a coach within our own region chose this path.  A coach who knows these kids and sees them wrestle week in and week out.  A coach who has had Ethan in his own room practicing with his kids didn't have the courtesy to simply tell Ethan or his coach to move on.    Should an opposing team's coach have to do that? No, they shouldn't.   I myself am torn on this as I understand what we did and failed to do but dang it I wish some courtesy, or compassion, had been displayed even if we lacked it ourselves.  

Edited by oceansize42
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6 minutes ago, texas23 said:

Maybe the SH coach had the perspective that the other coach already knew this was going on.  Maybe that is why he did not bring it to the other coach.

Fair point.  I can say in my case then I would tell the kid personally, particularly since I would know him.  This rule is well known and so the instant it is brought to the ref's attention everyone is aware of what is likely to happen.   Why I typed that last part of my last sentence in the prior post.  

Edited by oceansize42
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34 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

That is a good point DAKEKO. It truly is and it cannot be dismissed.  However, I just don't understand why a coach within our own region chose this path.  A coach who knows these kids and sees them wrestle week in and week out.  A coach who has had Ethan in his own room practicing with his kids didn't have the courtesy to simply tell Ethan or his coach to move on.    Should an opposing team's coach have to do that? No, they shouldn't.   I myself am torn on this as I understand what we did and failed to do but dang it I wish some courtesy, or compassion, had been displayed even if we lacked it ourselves.  

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the choice made by either, only saying blame shouldn't be pointed at them for their decision to report it. They were within there rights to do so whether its agreed upon by everyone else or not. It's an unfortunate circumstance for all involved. I think we can all agree on at least that.

Edited by DAKEKO
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10 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

Fair point.  I can say in my case then I would tell the kid personally, particularly since I would know him.  This rule is well known and so the instant it is brought to the ref's attention everyone is aware of what is likely to happen.   Why I typed that last part of my last sentence in the prior post.  

I would say that human nature of any person (coach) is hard to understand sometimes.  I could see the reporting coach being upset (if he believed the opposing coach was sanctioning cheating) and going on the idea that this is the consequences of that behavior.  And justifying it by "this is what you get when you cheat".  

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18 minutes ago, texas23 said:

I would say that human nature of any person (coach) is hard to understand sometimes.  I could see the reporting coach being upset (if he believed the opposing coach was sanctioning cheating) and going on the idea that this is the consequences of that behavior.  And justifying it by "this is what you get when you cheat".  

Yes and I agree with that but again I could nitpick every single program and find a rule being broken. There’s so many stupid rules on the book with anything high school related that it’s pretty easy to fall on the wrong side of one of those rules. Through the years coaching I have seen small little things I would get corrected before anything happened just like I do also as a referee now. I have seen kids forget their soccer Stuff at one parents house(they were divorced) and show up with no shin guards or non matching socks(both are against the laws of the game). I will head over to the coach hand him some of my own as I always keep spares and on they go to play. I do the same as a coach and some of those are not rec either and they should know better. My entire reason of coaching or being a ref is to have kids play, plain and simple, not to win or lose but to play a game. A coach that takes their job that seriously I sure as heck wouldn’t want them to touch any of my kids as a coach. If this had been something for safety where the kids was wearing a dang rubber suit like some of us did back in the day that’s a different story, but I bet this was nothing like that and have no competitive advantage to a kid either. 

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3 hours ago, texas23 said:

I would say that human nature of any person (coach) is hard to understand sometimes.  I could see the reporting coach being upset (if he believed the opposing coach was sanctioning cheating) and going on the idea that this is the consequences of that behavior.  And justifying it by "this is what you get when you cheat".  

Does anyone on here really believe the coach that reported this has 100% abided  by the "code of ethics section"? Give us all a break. How many coaches have 100% abided by the hydration test. Reporting 100% accurate weights for every single weighin. Looked the other way when kids used plastics. Given special treatment to wrestlers they've had in class on weigh in or match days. Gone to other teachers and asked for they're wrestler to be able to do make up work. I could go on and on and on. 

Some, of course are more ethical than others. But NO ONE is 100% ethical - only Christ. There's just too many gray areas because there's too many "rules". And we're human beings. We're flawed.


I'll go ahead and say it. The coach that  reported this is 100% wrong and should be ashamed of himself. This is no way excuses the wrestler for not abiding by the "rules".

The old adage lives - "he who smelt it probably dealt it". In other words whoever reported this probably has more ethical issues than most. He'll get his.

What goes around comes around.

On another note, the coach of the kid who was disqualified needs to implement a simple team rule. NO ONE leaves for the weigh ins until they are on weight. PERIOD.

 

Edited by Newestguy
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31 minutes ago, SAC said:

Meanwhile on the AAA Individual State Predictions topic....

Yeah sorry didn't mean to derail the thread quite this far.   On a lighter note the 138 bracket is completely screwy which I gathered is no surprise.  Fisher should have been the two seed with Mann at three but they are both in region 1 so I get it.  What I don't get is how the Knox Halls kid got seeded second with a .583 win percentage.  

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