Over-Rated Teams at Individual State

[fooseball95]

1 minute ago, GoTNwrestling said:

The I think you need to re-read my comments and don’t look at it from Cleveland but look at it from the perspective of 98% of the teams in the state. If you were a coach and you told your 20 kids, we have two elite kids. You other 18 are not elite, so all of our tourneys are going to be geared to those two kids while you other 18 kids will learn with getting your heads beat in. How do you think those KIDS will feel about that? Even if you don’t say it, actions speak louder than words. The tourneys you go to sends them a message if you like it or not. I never said to go to only tourneys they do well in. I said some tough, some duals and some easier. Their own tourney, DB’s own tourney is tough, GIT (Greeneville),  McCallie’s is tough (insert school here) I think they go to out of state tourneys as well that are good and they should be fine too. I guarantee 98% of teams do exactly what I’ve told you from a state level because they don’t have 10-14 elite kids on their team. Once again, if you aren’t in the room and working with the kids everyday, it isn’t our call. All coaches nationwide have to determine what is best for their team and I would choose to support them in their decisions as they KNOW every kid and their mental and physical abilities. Not sure anyone can think they can win if they are obliterated every time they step on the mat but just my two cents

To each their own, but  as long as your ok with being pretty good you can take this approach, but you aren’t gonna win when it counts. Anyways, nothing Like a good debate. 

[GoTNwrestling]

15 minutes ago, fooseball95 said:

To each their own, but  as long as your ok with being pretty good you can take this approach, but you aren’t gonna win when it counts. Anyways, nothing Like a good debate. 

We will agree to disagree, but Cleveland is an exception and they should be proud of that

[cbg]

4 hours ago, GoTNwrestling said:

Yes DB did, but they also went to tourneys that helped their kids as well and not go 1-4 or 0-5. Some teams are not equipped to take a beating every weekend or even some weekends as these are kids. The coach who coaches that team has to make those decisions to best prepare their team for the end of the season and manage his/her kids accordingly. Every make up of a team is different and that’s the responsibility of the coach to determine what’s best for them and how to prepare the elite ones for states but also the newbies to prepare to try to even qualify for states. There is a fine line, and I’m not sure one size fits all here. I believe Science Hill’s tourney is very tough and they did pretty well. They also wrestled Bradley in a dual as well. Not defending any team or coach here, but it’s a balancing act you have to decide as the coach. It would be easy if ALL kids on the team are in the same boat talent and technical wise, but they never are. 

You do understand that the definition of insanity is to continue doing the exact same thing while expecting different results?  If I were Science Hill and began every season with high expectations but failed to perform at the State Tournament I would change my approach.  Yes, some kids/families are going to get their feelings hurt but if you want to be a state champion you must cut your losses and pay the price.  It's unfortunate but you will lose some good kids & families while on the journey because they are not mentally tough enough and are not will to pay the price for success.  

[GoTNwrestling]

18 minutes ago, cbg said:

You do understand that the definition of insanity is to continue doing the exact same thing while expecting different results?  If I were Science Hill and began every season with high expectations but failed to perform at the State Tournament I would change my approach.  Yes, some kids/families are going to get their feelings hurt but if you want to be a state champion you must cut your losses and pay the price.  It's unfortunate but you will lose some good kids & families while on the journey because they are not mentally tough enough and are not will to pay the price for success.  

6th in the state is failed expectations? Top 12 every year in duals is failed expectations? To me, there are a LOT of schools who would love to have that problem. Maybe it’s not the high school but the middle school or elementary school where there wasn’t as high numbers in the past? I don’t work with their program and live to far away anyways if I did want to help out there. There are a lot of variables that go into high school wrestling, even variables with parents and other siblings that you can’t say it’s all the coach or all the kids. There are a lot we don’t know and we shouldn’t know since we aren’t apart of the program. Until you can get multiple kids that are as good if not better then those kids at higher calling, it will be difficult to be top dog, but being top 10-12 every year isn’t anything to scoff at. Remember change doesn’t happen overnight. And they might be changing things or sickness could have occurred or even injuries we don’t even know about. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by GoTNwrestling

[GoTNwrestling]

48 minutes ago, cbg said:

You do understand that the definition of insanity is to continue doing the exact same thing while expecting different results?  If I were Science Hill and began every season with high expectations but failed to perform at the State Tournament I would change my approach.  Yes, some kids/families are going to get their feelings hurt but if you want to be a state champion you must cut your losses and pay the price.  It's unfortunate but you will lose some good kids & families while on the journey because they are not mentally tough enough and are not will to pay the price for success.  

Maybe we should as good members of our community be asking ourselves and the teams around us, how can we help you get better? Wouldn’t this help solve this problem rather than saying there needs to be a change at that one school? I guarantee, if people like us would help their coaches all summer or even part of the summer, we can see improvements in all of our regions. 

[cbg]

28 minutes ago, GoTNwrestling said:

Maybe we should as good members of our community be asking ourselves and the teams around us, how can we help you get better? Wouldn’t this help solve this problem rather than saying there needs to be a change at that one school? I guarantee, if people like us would help their coaches all summer or even part of the summer, we can see improvements in all of our regions. 

First and foremost I am not trying to dictate what SH does with the wrestling program.  What I am saying is what I would do if I were in charge of the program.  With regards to helping out I am 400+ miles away so like you there is zero chance that I could help on any level.  But to answer one of your questions as to finishing 6th in the state individuals and top 12 in the duals; yes, as the head coach I would be depressed and my feelings would be hurt.  I have never participated in anything that I did not want to win the championship.  Until everyone in the program hates to lose more than they like to win you will continue to finish 6th and 12th.  Those are just the facts of how things will play out.

Edited February 23, 2020 by cbg

[Tangledweb]

On 2/23/2020 at 3:05 PM, cbg said:

First and foremost I am not trying to dictate what SH does with the wrestling program.  What I am saying is what I would do if I were in charge of the program.  With regards to helping out I am 400+ miles away so like you there is zero chance that I could help on any level.  But to answer one of your questions as to finishing 6th in the state individuals and top 12 in the duals; yes, as the head coach I would be depressed and my feelings would be hurt.  I have never participated in anything that I did not want to win the championship.  Until everyone in the program hates to lose more than they like to win you will continue to finish 6th and 12th.  Those are just the facts of how things will play out.

Problem is not every kid on the team has wrestling as their first passion, some are on the team to help improve their football passion, some are on the team to build self confidence, some like to wrestle but know they are not elite - these kids need to be set up for success too and as a team finishing that well in the season is not a bad place to be and some coaches are not a “win at all cost” coach! Wrestling is probably the best sport out there for independence as you either win or lose, but if a kid is set up to always be a win for someone else why would they want to keep doing it and then they lose out on participating in the best one on one sport ever!