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If We Go To 4 Classes? How's The Tourney Look?


NWhoopaholic
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Since there’s nothing we can do about the present lets turn our attention to the future. The TSSAA is set to consider going to four classes in basketball and from all indications this has some serious traction. Would love to hear input on how the state tournament should be done. I’m going to throw out three options. If you have another idea put it out there.

#1 Basically the current schedule but would require 8 games Wed-Fri. Play 2 class of quarters the first two days, 8 semifinals on Friday, & 4 championships on Saturday. Downside:This would make for long days TSSAA staff.

#2 Use two different venues concurrently, for example A/AA one place & AAA/AAAA at another. One class would play Wednesday, other on Thursday, all semis on Friday, & championships on Saturday. Downside: Everyone would not be together but hopefully they’d be close enough people could attend both easily. Also double the staffing required.

#3 Add a “Super-Sectional” game pitting Sectional winners at a larger venue in each of the four sections of state and send only four teams to Murfreesboro in each class. Play four semifinals Wednesday & four Thursday. Two championships Friday & two Saturday. Downside: Fewer teams make "State."

Edited by NWhoopaholic
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14 hours ago, NWhoopaholic said:

Since there’s nothing we can do about the present lets turn our attention to the future. The TSSAA is set to consider going to four classes in basketball and from all indications this has some serious traction. Would love to hear input on how the state tournament should be done. I’m going to throw out three options. If you have another idea put it out there.

#1 Basically the current schedule but would require 8 games Wed-Fri. Play 2 class of quarters the first two days, 8 semifinals on Friday, & 4 championships on Saturday. Downside:This would make for long days TSSAA staff.

#2 Use two different venues concurrently, for example A/AA one place & AAA/AAAA at another. One class would play Wednesday, other on Thursday, all semis on Friday, & championships on Saturday. Downside: Everyone would not be together but hopefully they’d be close enough people could attend both easily. Also double the staffing required.

#3 Add a “Super-Sectional” game pitting Sectional winners at a larger venue in each of the four sections of state and send only four teams to Murfreesboro in each class. Play four semifinals Wednesday & four Thursday. Two championships Friday & two Saturday. Downside: Fewer teams make "State."

I have long been an advocate of cutting down the  "state" tournament size. I would do this whether the tournament was three classes or four classes. I would much prefer only four teams qualifying for "state"and play the games on Thursday, Friday and Saturday only for a 4 class tournament and Thursday and Friday for a 3 class tournament. I am also an advocate of completely overhauling the entire tournament process. I find it ridiculous to have four teams advancing out of district play. This is especially true in the smaller districts.  In my opinion, losing two games in district play and still advancing to the next level is wrong.  Excellent play should be rewarded, not mediocrity. And yes, I am aware of the year that teams have finished third and fourth in the district ended up playing for the state championship. But you have to look at it and ask the question, how many times has that happened? It is certainly the rarest of occasions for a team that finished third or fourth in a district to be playing in a state championship game.

I will also eliminate the home court substate games and go with super sectionals in larger arenas in four different parts of the state. That would certainly make for big time tournament atmospheres two weekends in a row as I would have those super sectional games played on Friday and Saturdays only the weekend before state.

My idea would definitely involve some creativity and the entire culture would have to change. However this is one change and I think that will be for the better and vastly improved the overall product. I think in the long run, our friends at the T$$AA would also end up making more money and the crowds would be bigger.

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On 3/14/2020 at 2:26 PM, ReitzFan said:

I have long been an advocate of cutting down the  "state" tournament size. I would do this whether the tournament was three classes or four classes. I would much prefer only four teams qualifying for "state"and play the games on Thursday, Friday and Saturday only for a 4 class tournament and Thursday and Friday for a 3 class tournament. I am also an advocate of completely overhauling the entire tournament process. I find it ridiculous to have four teams advancing out of district play. This is especially true in the smaller districts.  In my opinion, losing two games in district play and still advancing to the next level is wrong.  Excellent play should be rewarded, not mediocrity. And yes, I am aware of the year that teams have finished third and fourth in the district ended up playing for the state championship. But you have to look at it and ask the question, how many times has that happened? It is certainly the rarest of occasions for a team that finished third or fourth in a district to be playing in a state championship game.

I will also eliminate the home court substate games and go with super sectionals in larger arenas in four different parts of the state. That would certainly make for big time tournament atmospheres two weekends in a row as I would have those super sectional games played on Friday and Saturdays only the weekend before state.

My idea would definitely involve some creativity and the entire culture would have to change. However this is one change and I think that will be for the better and vastly improved the overall product. I think in the long run, our friends at the T$$AA would also end up making more money and the crowds would be bigger.

That’s the best idea I’ve read. Play substate/sectionals on a neutral court but how would you schedule it? You could do a double header in a neutral gym for the quarterfinals. Or do like D2 and let the quarterfinals be played at the home of the higher seed or in a neutral gym. I do like the idea of playing just semifinal and finals in Nashville. 

Edited by QSouth89
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3 hours ago, QSouth89 said:

That’s the best idea I’ve read. Play substate/sectionals on a neutral court but how would you schedule it? You could do a double header in a neutral gym for the quarterfinals. Or do like D2 and let the quarterfinals be played at the home of the higher seed or in a neutral gym. I do like the idea of playing just semifinal and finals in Nashville. 

If I remember correctly, something of the sort was much in the works several (20 something) years back. There was mention of "killing" the sub state home games and playing multiple games at a neutral site, to be called "sectionals"… the name sort of stuck, but the home-away site games for regional winners vs. runner ups didn't change. Our region was to be held at UT Martin, or so the rumor was.

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On 3/13/2020 at 10:07 PM, NWhoopaholic said:

Since there’s nothing we can do about the present lets turn our attention to the future. The TSSAA is set to consider going to four classes in basketball and from all indications this has some serious traction. Would love to hear input on how the state tournament should be done. I’m going to throw out three options. If you have another idea put it out there.

#1 Basically the current schedule but would require 8 games Wed-Fri. Play 2 class of quarters the first two days, 8 semifinals on Friday, & 4 championships on Saturday. Downside:This would make for long days TSSAA staff.

#2 Use two different venues concurrently, for example A/AA one place & AAA/AAAA at another. One class would play Wednesday, other on Thursday, all semis on Friday, & championships on Saturday. Downside: Everyone would not be together but hopefully they’d be close enough people could attend both easily. Also double the staffing required.

#3 Add a “Super-Sectional” game pitting Sectional winners at a larger venue in each of the four sections of state and send only four teams to Murfreesboro in each class. Play four semifinals Wednesday & four Thursday. Two championships Friday & two Saturday. Downside: Fewer teams make "State."

I’m open but I think the basketball system is okay as of now. However, the changes I would make would be in football, specifically D-II Class A and hopefully  finding a way to go to 5 classes in D-1 if possible.

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I'd go four classes in basketball plus possibly softball and baseball. Four teams in each class ending up in Murfreesboro would work fine. Maybe first round games could be played at Riverdale and Blackman etc, with Class AAA at MTCS so none of the Murfreesboro teams could have home court in the first round. 

More and more charter schools or whatever they're termed will continue to cause trouble in the classes for basketball, not so much in baseball and softball probably. Since there are no games right now, may as well take the time to throw out something the TSSAA looked at very briefly a few years ago, a rural-urban split. This would solve charters, also solve some-though not all-of transfer issues, at least each division would be on somewhat equal footing for transfer accessibility. 

Some of the largest counties definitely have rural areas but they have a lot of students nearby that can move in and turn around a program instantly. It can happen in rural areas too but it's not as likely. 

I'd take the largest 20 or so counties: Shelby, Davidson, Knox, Hamilton, Rutherford, Williamson, Montgomery, Sullivan, Sumner, Wilson, Blount, Washington, Bradley, Madison, Maury, Putnam, Anderson-take all their schools and divide by 3 or 4. If taking back the privates, large ones would play in largest class, others in second largest class. 

For the other 75 counties, divide by 3. Exceptions who'd go into the urban division would be large schools with 1,500 or more, there would be just a few but they'd be much larger than some even in the largest class. 

 

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1 hour ago, Indian said:

I'd go four classes in basketball plus possibly softball and baseball. Four teams in each class ending up in Murfreesboro would work fine. Maybe first round games could be played at Riverdale and Blackman etc, with Class AAA at MTCS so none of the Murfreesboro teams could have home court in the first round. 

More and more charter schools or whatever they're termed will continue to cause trouble in the classes for basketball, not so much in baseball and softball probably. Since there are no games right now, may as well take the time to throw out something the TSSAA looked at very briefly a few years ago, a rural-urban split. This would solve charters, also solve some-though not all-of transfer issues, at least each division would be on somewhat equal footing for transfer accessibility. 

Some of the largest counties definitely have rural areas but they have a lot of students nearby that can move in and turn around a program instantly. It can happen in rural areas too but it's not as likely. 

I'd take the largest 20 or so counties: Shelby, Davidson, Knox, Hamilton, Rutherford, Williamson, Montgomery, Sullivan, Sumner, Wilson, Blount, Washington, Bradley, Madison, Maury, Putnam, Anderson-take all their schools and divide by 3 or 4. If taking back the privates, large ones would play in largest class, others in second largest class. 

For the other 75 counties, divide by 3. Exceptions who'd go into the urban division would be large schools with 1,500 or more, there would be just a few but they'd be much larger than some even in the largest class. 

 

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Edited by Red Rebels
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Basically split them up rural and large counties/urban, divide equally and have a few exceptions for the largest rural schools like a Coffee County or McMinn County. The TSSAA put out a list of possible breakdowns but the problem with it, it went by zip code and didn't address a lot of concerns (it went nowhere). 

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7 hours ago, Indian said:

I'd go four classes in basketball plus possibly softball and baseball. Four teams in each class ending up in Murfreesboro would work fine. Maybe first round games could be played at Riverdale and Blackman etc, with Class AAA at MTCS so none of the Murfreesboro teams could have home court in the first round. 

More and more charter schools or whatever they're termed will continue to cause trouble in the classes for basketball, not so much in baseball and softball probably. Since there are no games right now, may as well take the time to throw out something the TSSAA looked at very briefly a few years ago, a rural-urban split. This would solve charters, also solve some-though not all-of transfer issues, at least each division would be on somewhat equal footing for transfer accessibility. 

Some of the largest counties definitely have rural areas but they have a lot of students nearby that can move in and turn around a program instantly. It can happen in rural areas too but it's not as likely. 

I'd take the largest 20 or so counties: Shelby, Davidson, Knox, Hamilton, Rutherford, Williamson, Montgomery, Sullivan, Sumner, Wilson, Blount, Washington, Bradley, Madison, Maury, Putnam, Anderson-take all their schools and divide by 3 or 4. If taking back the privates, large ones would play in largest class, others in second largest class. 

For the other 75 counties, divide by 3. Exceptions who'd go into the urban division would be large schools with 1,500 or more, there would be just a few but they'd be much larger than some even in the largest class. 

 

Always thought Urban/Rural was best way to split but it must've never got very far. Don't think it's on the table this cycle but maybe next. Truly think basketball will be four classes next time. TSSAA will decide at June meeting.

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On 3/16/2020 at 1:28 AM, tradertwo said:

If I remember correctly, something of the sort was much in the works several (20 something) years back. There was mention of "killing" the sub state home games and playing multiple games at a neutral site, to be called "sectionals"… the name sort of stuck, but the home-away site games for regional winners vs. runner ups didn't change. Our region was to be held at UT Martin, or so the rumor was.

I personally think they should leave it at 3 classes. There are already districts in AA and A with 4 or 5 team districts. One of the issues in football is too many championships and how water downed it is, I think it should be earned keep it three classes.  Eliminate the home court substate and play a neutral site game but do a double header for fans. For instance, in East Tennessee the class a substate could be at Oak Ridge, the AA substate at Walter State and the AAA substate at ETSU 

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