4A-6A TWSA All State teams

[CommandoBlood100]

22 hours ago, HTV said:

Our today:

 

2021 TSWA All-State Football Teams: Class 4A, 5A, 6A - Five Star Preps (5starpreps.com)

WOW!! Not one player from Sumner County selected in any of these classifications! Hendersonville coming off of a 6a semifinals appearance has had 3 or 4 players selected in every other publication. Beech has had 2 both are D1 players (WR/TE) for sure selected in the others.

Congratulations to the players selected here I’m sure they are very deserving but it’s hard for me to take this one seriously…

[cbg]

2 hours ago, BIGPURPLEMACHINE said:

First let me say that I agree with you that there should be fewer classes in football in Tennessee. I see two problems with your plan. (Granted they are not huge problems and could be worked around). 
 

1.  There were 334 football playing high schools in TN last year. You proposed 5 classes and said there would be roughly 90 teams in each class. With 334 schools it would actually be 68-69 schools per class. 
2. If you limited the smallest class to small public’s that weren’t open zone you wouldn’t even come close to 68-69 schools in this class. The vast majority of schools in this state are open zone. If you count the schools that are truly closed zone (meaning they allow no kids from out of the zone under no circumstances) you may have 20-30 schools.  
 

Just my two cents but I like the direction you are headed with this. 

I appreciate your opinion!  With any new idea everyone would have to be open to a few minimal tweaks.  It could be that we only need four divisions instead of five divisions which would be 84 schools per classification if divided equally.  IMO, it would make for even better competition if there were 4 divisions for football, basketball and baseball.  For all individual sports I would suggest having one true state champion.  

Edited January 19, 2022 by cbg

[HTV]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:24 PM, Swipes said:

Do you really think other states do it anyway different?  If giving out All-State teams per division is "Watering it Down" then i guess GA,FL, Al,TX, etc have "water down" teams then too.  Heck Florida even has 1st, 2nd, and 3rd teams per Classification.

I don't have a problem with each classification having an all state team.  I simply believe that there are way too many players on each team.  Not so much with the TSWA team with around 30 on each team, but some of the all state teams have 40-50 on each classification.  With most of the classifications having around 55 teams in each, that's just too many players, IMO.  And especially in D2 where there are so few teams in each classification.  An offense and defense with a couple of "utility" players, and a kicker and punter is plenty enough.  

And just because the other states do it doesn't mean everybody else should. 

Plus with most of those states you mentioned there are a lot more high school there because of much larger populations.  

I have no problem seeing kids recognized.  I simply think sometimes we are going too far for political correctness' sake.  

With every region having all region designees and entities like Prep Xtra, 5 Star Preps, Hargis in Chattanooga for the TFP all doing "all area" teams, kids get recognized these days.  

But again, I freely admit that I am old school.  

Agree to disagree?  It's just discussion. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by HTV

[ILB1999]

23 hours ago, cbg said:

The following plan for football would make it much more competitive for everyone: (both public and private schools are placed back together into one division)

Class A:  small public schools (No charter, private, open zoned or magnet schools)

Class AA:  public schools, small private schools that offer no financial aid or work study, open zoned public schools and charter schools

Class AAA:  public schools, private schools that offer no financial aid or work study, charter schools, open zoned public schools and magnet schools

Class AAAA:  public schools, small private schools that offer financial aid, private schools that offer only work study, charter schools, magnet schools and open zoned public schools

Class AAAAA:  large public schools, large private schools that offer financial aid & work study, magnet schools and open zoned public schools

Go back to 16 districts across the State of Tennessee and take the top 2 teams out of each district to the playoffs.  IMO, this plan will never be considered, not due to it being a bad plan but because it only rewards programs/communities that work hard to be the very best.  This plan would also place close to 90 teams in each division.  People should understand that competition is not a bad thing and actually brings out the best in everyone.  As a former public school athlete and someone that is in private business, I truly find it appalling that in Tennessee we are sending the not so subtle message to our public school students that they are not good enough to compete for a state championship in athletics against the private schools.   

I think it's funny that you think that schools with different rules should be in same classification.  I guess we're lucky you're not in charge.

[cbg]

16 minutes ago, ILB1999WHS said:

I think it's funny that you think that schools with different rules should be in same classification.  I guess we're lucky you're not in charge.

Yes, if you really don't wish to compete for championships you are very fortunate that I am not in charge!  Everyone would be held accountable for their actions but you would also see the TSSAA with a larger bank account along with being operated in a much more professional manner going forward.  When you have a state with only 7 million people and you have nine divisions for high school football something is wrong.  The population base in Tennessee really justifies only having four divisions and at the maximum five divisions for high school football.  People want to get on this board and speak of what other states are doing but they fail to inform you that most every state in the union (New York & Texas are exceptions) have both the public and private schools playing against each other for championships.  With that being said IDK what the deal was in NY but in Texas most all of the private schools were not good enough to compete with the public schools so the private schools formed another organization.  Today there are a few select Catholic schools that play against the public schools for championships in Texas.  Regardless of what some people may think or even want you to believe, you still have public   schools competing against each other for championships and the rules are not close to being the same with regards to some school systems being open zoned or allowing children from other counties to attend a school in another county.  Look I am old enough to understand that without a miracle the rules will never revert back to how they were prior to the split.  My main issues are that state championships are being legislated by the Board of Control and the not so subtle message being sent to the public school athletes is that they are not good enough to compete against the private school kids.  As a former public school graduate that is very offensive to me.

[ILB1999]

9 minutes ago, cbg said:

Yes, if you really don't wish to compete for championships you are very fortunate that I am not in charge!  Everyone would be held accountable for their actions but you would also see the TSSAA with a larger bank account along with being operated in a much more professional manner going forward.  When you have a state with only 7 million people and you have nine divisions for high school football something is wrong.  The population base in Tennessee really justifies only having four divisions and at the maximum five divisions for high school football.  People want to get on this board and speak of what other states are doing but they fail to inform you that most every state in the union (New York & Texas are exceptions) have both the public and private schools playing against each other for championships.  With that being said IDK what the deal was in NY but in Texas most all of the private schools were not good enough to compete with the public schools so the private schools formed another organization.  Today there are a few select Catholic schools that play against the public schools for championships in Texas.  Regardless of what some people may think or even want you to believe, you still have public   schools competing against each other for championships and the rules are not close to being the same with regards to some school systems being open zoned or allowing children from other counties to attend a school in another county.  Look I am old enough to understand that without a miracle the rules will never revert back to how they were prior to the split.  My main issues are that state championships are being legislated by the Board of Control and the not so subtle message being sent to the public school athletes is that they are not good enough to compete against the private school kids.  As a former public school graduate that is very offensive to me.

So you're expeerience in this is that you are a former public school athlete?  That's it?

[Indian]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:47 AM, BIGPURPLEMACHINE said:

First let me say that I agree with you that there should be fewer classes in football in Tennessee. I see two problems with your plan. (Granted they are not huge problems and could be worked around). 
 

1.  There were 334 football playing high schools in TN last year. You proposed 5 classes and said there would be roughly 90 teams in each class. With 334 schools it would actually be 68-69 schools per class. 
2. If you limited the smallest class to small public’s that weren’t open zone you wouldn’t even come close to 68-69 schools in this class. The vast majority of schools in this state are open zone. If you count the schools that are truly closed zone (meaning they allow no kids from out of the zone under no circumstances) you may have 20-30 schools.  
 

Just my two cents but I like the direction you are headed with this. 

Since this class period is just 2 years, wish they could have taken a look at rural-urban. It wouldn't take care of all issues but in general it's more difficult for rural players to transfer/move in for 9th grade from a different feeder since they're more spread out. It was a topic in the state meetings a few years ago and got a vote but never was a serious threat to come about. 

[ILB1999]

17 hours ago, Indian said:

Since this class period is just 2 years, wish they could have taken a look at rural-urban. It wouldn't take care of all issues but in general it's more difficult for rural players to transfer/move in for 9th grade from a different feeder since they're more spread out. It was a topic in the state meetings a few years ago and got a vote but never was a serious threat to come about. 

It should never happen.  There's no way for it to be fair.  Theres no way to define it.  Just looking at this year's football champions, I'd consider south pitt, tullahoma, westview rural.  but you could make an argument for powell and alcoa too because they aren't exactly urban.  This sounds like you're just tired of losing and looking for a way out.

[Indian]

27 minutes ago, ILB1999WHS said:

It should never happen.  There's no way for it to be fair.  Theres no way to define it.  Just looking at this year's football champions, I'd consider south pitt, tullahoma, westview rural.  but you could make an argument for powell and alcoa too because they aren't exactly urban.  This sounds like you're just tired of losing and looking for a way out.

Powell and Alcoa would be in urban, part of metro Knoxville area. There was a breakdown of all the teams before the state meeting vote. Basically Nash, Memphis, Jackson, Chattanooga, Clarksville, Johnson City, Knoxville, their counties, and suburban around them (Brentwood, Oak RIdge etc)  were urban. Census results/population density was part of it. Sequatchie lost to Kingston in playoffs, not urban, not looking for a way out. Non-urban Giles County won the region.  

[ILB1999]

2 minutes ago, Indian said:

Powell and Alcoa would be in urban, part of metro Knoxville area. There was a breakdown of all the teams before the state meeting vote. Basically Nash, Memphis, Jackson, Chattanooga, Clarksville, Johnson City, Knoxville, their counties, and suburban around them (Brentwood, Oak RIdge etc)  were urban. Census results/population density was part of it. Sequatchie lost to Kingston in playoffs, not urban, not looking for a way out. Non-urban Giles County won the region.  

This is an idea that should never have traction.  The current classification structure already takes of care of low-density school zones most of the time.  I'm intrigued to know, are there any states that do this?

[MSURacer]

18 hours ago, Indian said:

Since this class period is just 2 years, wish they could have taken a look at rural-urban. It wouldn't take care of all issues but in general it's more difficult for rural players to transfer/move in for 9th grade from a different feeder since they're more spread out. It was a topic in the state meetings a few years ago and got a vote but never was a serious threat to come about. 

It just isn't a very good idea. The rural schools are already spread too far apart as it is. Due to the state's geography, there is no coherent way of grouping them into districts and regions by enrollment, which is the only realistic way it would gain any support.

It might work for the small schools, as most of them are rural anyway and already grouped into districts. The larger schools are where you would run into big problems. I'm from Henry County, and the closest rural school that is anywhere near their size is like 100 miles away.

The districts would look more ridiculous than a gerrymandered congressional map. You would have to condense the classifications to incredible straits to avoid that, and you're not gonna have many happy administrators and coaches at schools of 700-800 students being grouped with schools of 1300-1600 students. 

[HTV]

1 hour ago, Indian said:

Powell and Alcoa would be in urban, part of metro Knoxville area. There was a breakdown of all the teams before the state meeting vote. Basically Nash, Memphis, Jackson, Chattanooga, Clarksville, Johnson City, Knoxville, their counties, and suburban around them (Brentwood, Oak RIdge etc)  were urban. Census results/population density was part of it. Sequatchie lost to Kingston in playoffs, not urban, not looking for a way out. Non-urban Giles County won the region.  

As somebody who has lived here for 30 years, Powell is NOT urban.  It is suburban/rural.   Huge difference.