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12 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

Who did the "best job" can really only mean one thing in athletics.

 

At this point if you pass it out to everybody its just a participation trophy. 

According to that logic the NFL has passed out the Coach of the Year award to the wrong coach almost every year.

Im pretty sure people on this site care about the award more than the coaches though. 

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21 minutes ago, goblue1 said:

I was just saying Grassland has a smaller middle school team with less kids on it than the other two. I believe Mill Creek and Spring Station are two of the better middle school teams around the mid state for sure. Again all 3 candidates were very deserving this year, 

But one more so than the other two right….

 

then that’s the one who should’ve gotten it. It’s almost as if it was a “sorry you didn’t medal in state here’s an award to make you fell better” situation.

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17 minutes ago, TotallynotLEO said:

 

People keep throwing "participation trophy" around trying to devalue something they wanted. 

You can tell from a lot of these threads who is most likely to show thier #### at a dual if it doesn't go thier way. 

Some people on this message board are just old enough to remember when there were no divisions and only the real studs could be called a state champion.  This is going to hurt some parents feelings but we have kids winning state championships that would likely not have even made it to the state tournament before the split.  By having three state champions in wrestling and placing six kids per weight classification we have done nothing more than reward participation in wrestling in many instances.  The very best kids today are better than the very best kids from years gone by due to training methods and access to better coaching.  However the average kids today are not nearly as good which has led to a lack of depth.  

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16 minutes ago, cbg said:

Some people on this message board are just old enough to remember when there were no divisions and only the real studs could be called a state champion.  This is going to hurt some parents feelings but we have kids winning state championships that would likely not have even made it to the state tournament before the split.  By having three state champions in wrestling and placing six kids per weight classification we have done nothing more than reward participation in wrestling in many instances.  The very best kids today are better than the very best kids from years gone by due to training methods and access to better coaching.  However the average kids today are not nearly as good which has led to a lack of depth.  

Ill bet that within the next 7 years they add another division. It'll be a small school division 2. They had a dual champion this year. They'll have their own individual tournament soon too.

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24 minutes ago, cbg said:

Some people on this message board are just old enough to remember when there were no divisions and only the real studs could be called a state champion.  This is going to hurt some parents feelings but we have kids winning state championships that would likely not have even made it to the state tournament before the split.  By having three state champions in wrestling and placing six kids per weight classification we have done nothing more than reward participation in wrestling in many instances.  The very best kids today are better than the very best kids from years gone by due to training methods and access to better coaching.  However the average kids today are not nearly as good which has led to a lack of depth.  

The population of Tennessee was what during these glory days?

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1 hour ago, cbg said:

Some people on this message board are just old enough to remember when there were no divisions and only the real studs could be called a state champion.  This is going to hurt some parents feelings but we have kids winning state championships that would likely not have even made it to the state tournament before the split.  By having three state champions in wrestling and placing six kids per weight classification we have done nothing more than reward participation in wrestling in many instances.  The very best kids today are better than the very best kids from years gone by due to training methods and access to better coaching.  However the average kids today are not nearly as good which has led to a lack of depth.  

Who was most responsible for the split?  TSSAA, coaches, or parents?

I'm asking because I've never heard a parent complain (to an unbearable degree) about an outcome, other than in the moment which is sometimes understandable.  Most, keyword most, parents seem to have a pretty good understanding about where their kid stands in the grand scheme of wrestling within TN.  It only takes one or two matches against a nationally ranked kid or year round wrestler for parents to see the big picture. I think the only culprit, or at least the main culprit, in all this is the TSSAA and not parents so I'm not sure how many hurt feelings there really are.  Parents just roll with whatever the current rules are.  I don't think the vast majority of parents would mind a 32 man combined bracket for individuals.   Also this really isn't a sport most people simply fall into.  It is niche enough that it takes a certain type of kid and parents to withstand the blows to their collective egos that come early and often. 

My own son wrestles at a county school and the collective wrestling IQ amongst parents isn't anywhere close to high and yet I don't see or hear a bunch of whiners who are crying over their kid's position within the sport.

Edited by oceansize42
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On 2/14/2022 at 5:48 PM, oceansize42 said:

Who was most responsible for the split?  TSSAA, coaches, or parents?

I'm asking because I've never heard a parent complain (to an unbearable degree) about an outcome, other than in the moment which is sometimes understandable.  Most, keyword most, parents seem to have a pretty good understanding about where their kid stands in the grand scheme of wrestling within TN.  It only takes one or two matches against a nationally ranked kid or year round wrestler for parents to see the big picture. I think the only culprit, or at least the main culprit, in all this is the TSSAA and not parents so I'm not sure how many hurt feelings there really are.  Parents just roll with whatever the current rules are.  I don't think the vast majority of parents would mind a 32 man combined bracket for individuals.   Also this really isn't a sport most people simply fall into.  It is niche enough that it takes a certain type of kid and parents to withstand the blows to their collective egos that come early and often. 

My own son wrestles at a county school and the collective wrestling IQ amongst parents isn't anywhere close to high and yet I don't see or hear a bunch of whiners who are crying over their kid's position within the sport.

It happened due to then Riverdale Coach Gary Rankin losing in the state championship game to the Carlton Flatt coached Brentwood Academy team.  Former Springfield football and wrestling coach Randy Thomas always said that if one of the large public schools lost a state championship game to a private school you would see a split.  

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10 hours ago, cbg said:

It happened due to then Riverdale Coach Gary Rankin losing in the state championship game to the Carlton Flatt coached Brentwood Academy team.  Former Springfield football and wrestling coach Randy Thomas always said that if one of the large public schools lost a state championship game to a private school you would see a split.  

That is correct and this recent article  lays out the backstory pretty well.  So to be clear it isn't wrestling parents telling "little johnny" he can't compete and it isn't wrestling parents raising soft kids, it was coaches and ADs who made every bit of this happen and in particular it was the sport of football that drove the decision making process.  Is there some small percentage of soft kids and parents within wrestling?  Sure. That exists everywhere in every walk of life and has for all of time.

If anyone wants to pin a medal on someone for being soft go lay it primarily on the chest of football as football seemingly drove every high school sport into the current situation, right or wrong.  I happen to agree with the public/private team split but disagree with respect to the split in individual State Tournaments in sports like wrestling, track, tennis, golf, etc.  But again it wasn't parents that orchestrated the current system. 

Quotes from the article:

Quote

Prior to the split, by the fall of 1995, private schools had won 17 consecutive state championships in boys' tennis, 11 straight in boys' golf and nine in wrestling in a 12-year span. But because that domination had come in the so-called "minor sports" — those that do not generate as much revenue — the real resentment remained under the surface for most public schools.

 

Quote

Just four months after the private schools' domination in those 1995 football title games, the TSSAA's Legislative Council — which is responsible for statewide rules changes — voted 6-1 in favor of creating a separate league for schools that give financial aid to athletes. One year after the vote, the new rule was implemented and this fall serves as the 25th anniversary of that first season of the split in competition between Division I (public schools) and D-II (private schools) in the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association.

"There was no doubt in anybody's mind at the state office that we were totally against the split," said current TSSAA executive director Bernard Childress, who was an assistant director at the time of the split. "We felt it was discriminatory against a small portion of our membership. Young people don't care who they play, they just want to compete against their friends.

 

Quote

Former Riverdale principal Hulon Watson, who had a background coaching football at Hargrave Military Academy in Virginia, began researching the differences between the state's public and private schools in the mid-1990s. He learned that while private schools made up just 15% of the TSSAA membership, they were winning nearly 60% of the championships in the state's 13 sanctioned sports.

"Football was what got everybody's attention," Childress said. "Once the private schools began to win big in football, that was the tipping point. That stirred up enough frustration that the public school coaches and administrators came together to find a way to move the private schools out of their way when it came to competing for championships."

 

Quote

As was the case with the TSSAA's original rule to separate schools by enrollment, which created a classification system in 1969, football was at the heart of the decision that changed the landscape of prep sports and made Tennessee the first state to divide all high school athletics along public and private lines.

 

Edited by oceansize42
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