OW?

[Bump11]

7 minutes ago, Rasslinking said:

I’m pretty confident none of those stats are correct

you are correct. i was looking at finals appearances and wins together. i apologize. and i have fixed it. still a crazy stat

[oceansize42]

I think a few of the guys on the forum are die hard Cleveland fans, probably with kids in the program, and they want to believe they are "hated" or at least "disliked".  I've run into this personality type before and they feed off of that perceived disrespect.

Problem is it doesn't exist in the wrestling population at large.  The vast majority of wrestlers and their parents are not on championship caliber teams and are part timers in the sport.  They wrestle in season, perhaps a bit out of season, and in the end just want their kid to have a good time in a team environment, learn some life lessons, rack up a handful of wins, and stay out of trouble.  Wrestling provides all that. Participants learn that Cleveland and a handful of others win because of time spent and sacrifices made.  You learn that individuals who spend the most time practicing generally win titles.  Doesn't take long for that correlation to be made, even for kids (if they are honest with themselves).  These guys on the forum really believe that coaches and parents sit around talking about Cleveland's program (for more than 30 seconds).  By and large they don't.  Some do for sure and they are the other programs in the hunt for a state title.  What is going on here is the classic "the man is holding me down".  When you ask who the man is, well, nobody can ever tell you exactly who that man or group of men are. 

In this case however, this particular set of forum members have decided the coaches have conspired (or perhaps came to this conclusion all individually) and said, welp, you all win to much and therefore your kids can't have this.  The coaches are "the man".  Now that is a possibility and cannot be discounted but I'm not having it because that is no different than saying the kid that won didn't deserve it.  This same argument was made last year when Chittum didn't win it.  I laid a bunch of statistics out in the thread showing how much more dominant Trae was over the course of the tournament.  Trae spent 50% less time on the mat, 50%, that is huge.  I said go and watch the matches and just let your eye be the judge.  Trae laid waste.  Chittum was hurt, which nobody knew, and didn't lay waste.  One individual didn't even want to hear that.  Just said to heck with your facts and Chittum should have won it.  Everybody I talk to (for the most part) is very proud of Cody and his many achievements, god that young man works.  What didn't people like?  He turned 19 after his sophomore year.  You read that right.  He turned 19 after his Sophomore year.  How do I know that you ask?  His birthdate was listed on the Pan Am junior games (in which I was 100% rooting for Cody).  When people get wind of that type of thing you bet that is going to ruffle some feathers, particularly when everyone is proclaiming an 8th grader won a college tournament.  

So then you might think well Mr. Oceansize you hate Cleveland.   I just created a different thread the other day laying out some stuff I enjoyed and front and center was how good Cleveland really is as a program.  What I dislike is this OW didn't deserve it stuff or deserved it less.  It is at the coaches discretion.  Sammy won and he earned it.

Edited February 28, 2022 by oceansize42

[slingshot]

Well stated, Oceansize42. While Cleveland is dominant right now, their complaint/theory doesn't hold water. They're no more dominant than Bradley has been through their 26 State Championships, and a Bradley Wrestler toted the O.W. home 7-8 years.

Of course, on the Cleveland theory side, Matt Keller won the O.W. his Freshman year, then never again although he was clearly the most dominant wrestler by far. Not even when he won his 4th State Title in '02.

[fooseball95]

21 minutes ago, slingshot said:

Well stated, Oceansize42. While Cleveland is dominant right now, their complaint/theory doesn't hold water. They're no more dominant than Bradley has been through their 26 State Championships, and a Bradley Wrestler toted the O.W. home 7-8 years.

Of course, on the Cleveland theory side, Matt Keller won the O.W. his Freshman year, then never again although he was clearly the most dominant wrestler by far. Not even when he won his 4th State Title in '02.

Keller didn’t go to cleveland 

[Ummmno]

14 minutes ago, fooseball95 said:

Keller didn’t go to cleveland 

[fooseball95]

Just now, Ummmno said:

My point is nobody from cleveland has never won OW. It is what it is, we will stick to the trophies that matter and let the middle Tennessee boys win the popularity contests. 

[Ummmno]

1 minute ago, fooseball95 said:

My point is nobody from cleveland has never won OW. 

That's a double negative. So what you're saying is that Cleveland HAS won OW before. 

 

To which I agree with you. Someone from Cleveland HAS won OW before. 

[fooseball95]

33 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

That's a double negative. So what you're saying is that Cleveland HAS won OW before. 

 

To which I agree with you. Someone from Cleveland HAS won OW before. 

Debien won it in 2012 so your right.. 

[Ummmno]

9 minutes ago, fooseball95 said:

Debien won it in 2012 so your right.. 

correction, he won it in 2014

[slingshot]

Yeah,... I'm also from this neck of the woods, but I don't see the point in being arrogant and condescending toward the wrestling community in Middle Tennessee. I'm pretty sure they didn't do all of the voting. 

[oceansize42]

16 minutes ago, slingshot said:

Yeah,... I'm also from this neck of the woods, but I don't see the point in being arrogant and condescending toward the wrestling community in Middle Tennessee. I'm pretty sure they didn't do all of the voting. 

He doesn't understand and never will.  Many of the better middle, west, and east TN kids were all training under Bosken (at least some) in his camps.  I know, I was there watching lol.  Can't grasp that we all appreciate what the Cleveland/Chattanooga area brings in terms of opportunities for training and that it was our home coaches who sent us there in many cases.

Edited March 1, 2022 by oceansize42

[Bump11]

4 hours ago, fooseball95 said:

My point is nobody from cleveland has never won OW. It is what it is, we will stick to the trophies that matter and let the middle Tennessee boys win the popularity contests. 

those “middle tennessee boys” did more than win a popularity contest. 7 AA state champs came from middle TN. 6 from east. i bet if you look back through the years, you probably see similar results. if you’re a wrestler from chattanooga, chances are you’re being put in the Cleveland/Bradley school systems. hence why no other east TN schools are hardly ever competitive. the talent is more balanced in middle TN, and id bet my life savings if you lined up the best from middle against the best from east, you may not like the results. you can say cleveland is far and away the best team and nobody will argue, but don’t go throwing all of middle TN together to bash as a whole, saying we can keep the  “popularity awards” when they win more individual titles as a whole

Edited March 1, 2022 by Bump11