JCM

[WestTNHoopsFan]

16 hours ago, ReitzFan said:

Fact or hearsay.....Let's just say straight from the horses mouth.

Why don't they sue?....Both coaches got new gigs doing what they want in a very short time period. Neither was out of work before getting a new job. Why go through the hassle.

As far as the rest of your statement, why don't you go ask the coaches why they leave in droves for other opportunities. I do agree, Jackson pu lies should be more dominate than what they are. Too many schools would be one reason. Jmo

JCM should have hired the guy that went to Crockett County. Coach Simpson was already in the system, taken Madison to state tournament and from what I understand, wanted the job. Instead, he left for Crockett and took them to the sub state in his first year and will be as good if not better this year. 

[warmachine7954]

20 hours ago, ReitzFan said:

Fact or hearsay.....Let's just say straight from the horses mouth.

Why don't they sue?....Both coaches got new gigs doing what they want in a very short time period. Neither was out of work before getting a new job. Why go through the hassle.

As far as the rest of your statement, why don't you go ask the coaches why they leave in droves for other opportunities. I do agree, Jackson pu lies should be more dominate than what they are. Too many schools would be one reason. Jmo

That just doesn't line up. Both coaches got lied to but left and got jobs but let the wrong doing go? If they aren't willing to let it go that easy then what is JMCSS gonna be held accountable for?

Northside, SouthSide, Liberty, JCM and Madison. 5 high schools is adequate for that population. 

[TryNotToSuck]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:04 AM, warmachine7954 said:

Do you know all of this for a fact or just hearsay?

Why wouldn't the coaches in question sue for breach of contract? Worst case they would settle? 

I'm gonna ask this question again. 

Why doesn't JMCSS dominate West TN outside of Memphis? Why aren't coaches flocking to get jobs? 

It's simple, because the city of Jackson under Mayor Gist didn't want to "grow the city" or he was very hesitant to do so. Just heard stories on what Jackson could've been, but Jackson always wanted to take the "cheaper way out" and that's what happened. JMCSS signed off on building a high school in the east side of town, which is Liberty. That, turned out to be a mistake. I believe Liberty had over 900 students one time. Now, they're in the 500's and they're the smallest 3A school in the state. There is one too many high schools in the city of Jackson. I do believe there's also one too many private schools in Jackson as well. 

JMCSS didn't build their athletic facilities to making it a "state of the art" facilities. Gave Liberty a track, but only 6 lanes and not 8. Therefore, it's not a regulated track to run on in the spring. Liberty's football field house is extremely small for a 3A school. It'll be fine if there was 30 kids on the team, but not 70-80 like they had 5 years ago. The hire of Orenthus Taylor was an awful hire. He tanked JCM before they closed, and now, he tanked Liberty. Coach Akin is paying the price for that. He can't do anything at Liberty, while seeing the enrollment dropped 300+ students.  They just built Madison a new school, and the knock on it is that classrooms are too small. It's just another school, nothing stands out.

The basketball talent in Jackson is not good, both on the private and public side. I think Casey Prather was the last player to make it to an SEC school. He graduated from North Side 10+ years ago. As good as South Side has been, they haven't been able to send three players to D-1 universities. I do believe those three were AJ Merriweather, Jalen Barford, and Chris McNeal (which he was on a tour when he was in college). McNeal graduated in 2015, and the other two graduated before him. When was the last time Liberty had a major player? Jauwan Long? So, they talent hasn't necessarily been there. You never hear anything from Liberty in basketball anymore.

The main reason is because JMCSS hasn't shown any commitment to success when it comes to upgrading facilities. They won't put turf on the football fields, but they will let the middle school teams play on it in the fall. The football fields are being overused during the season (especially North Side because they have girls soccer as well). They haven't upgraded their facilities in the field house (weight room, lockers, etc). In addition, JCM is starting year 3 next fall, and they still don't have any plans for a football stadium. The area beside the Oman Arena is not big enough. Look, Rudesill and Shutes are not the ones getting screwed. The only getting screwed is Erit Turner. He doesn't have a field. Now, they're going to have to play "home games" at the other high schools throughout the city when they're on the road. 

Politics in the city are ruining the school system in a sports perspective. First, no one wants to raise taxes to build "better" schools. The schools that are being built today should be Collierville/Franklin ish type. Massive schools that look like a small college. That's "state of the art" that will attract people to Jackson (hint: Blue Oval City for an example). In 10-15 years, JMCSS is going to have to consider talking about building a new North Side, and a new South Side. They're going to have to do it at some point. But not raising taxes for build "state of the art" schools and athletic facilities, and not having a school system that is committed to athletic success is a result for why Jackson is not dominating. As much as it the blame should be on JMCSS (which is a lot because they haven't done jack squat to help the athletes), a lot of blame should be put on the city of Jackson as well.

I'll give you an example, they built the new Madison right beside the University of Memphis Lambuth. The soccer teams are playing on the football field, the baseball team is playing on the baseball field, and the softball team will play on a field right beside the tennis courts located on the Lambuth campus. Neither of the three fields have field lights. If JMCSS wants to show an commitment and an appreciation, then they should be able to purchase lights for all three athletic teams. I don't know why Lambuth never played their games without lights. It'll cost a lot of money, but it's a necessity these days (to host district tournaments), but will the school system do it? Because Madison athletics simply cannot fundraise the money for that. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by TryNotToSuck

[warmachine7954]

22 hours ago, TryNotToSuck said:

It's simple, because the city of Jackson under Mayor Gist didn't want to "grow the city" or he was very hesitant to do so. Just heard stories on what Jackson could've been, but Jackson always wanted to take the "cheaper way out" and that's what happened. JMCSS signed off on building a high school in the east side of town, which is Liberty. That, turned out to be a mistake. I believe Liberty had over 900 students one time. Now, they're in the 500's and they're the smallest 3A school in the state. There is one too many high schools in the city of Jackson. I do believe there's also one too many private schools in Jackson as well. 

JMCSS didn't build their athletic facilities to making it a "state of the art" facilities. Gave Liberty a track, but only 6 lanes and not 8. Therefore, it's not a regulated track to run on in the spring. Liberty's football field house is extremely small for a 3A school. It'll be fine if there was 30 kids on the team, but not 70-80 like they had 5 years ago. The hire of Orenthus Taylor was an awful hire. He tanked JCM before they closed, and now, he tanked Liberty. Coach Akin is paying the price for that. He can't do anything at Liberty, while seeing the enrollment dropped 300+ students.  They just built Madison a new school, and the knock on it is that classrooms are too small. It's just another school, nothing stands out.

The basketball talent in Jackson is not good, both on the private and public side. I think Casey Prather was the last player to make it to an SEC school. He graduated from North Side 10+ years ago. As good as South Side has been, they haven't been able to send three players to D-1 universities. I do believe those three were AJ Merriweather, Jalen Barford, and Chris McNeal (which he was on a tour when he was in college). McNeal graduated in 2015, and the other two graduated before him. When was the last time Liberty had a major player? Jauwan Long? So, they talent hasn't necessarily been there. You never hear anything from Liberty in basketball anymore.

The main reason is because JMCSS hasn't shown any commitment to success when it comes to upgrading facilities. They won't put turf on the football fields, but they will let the middle school teams play on it in the fall. The football fields are being overused during the season (especially North Side because they have girls soccer as well). They haven't upgraded their facilities in the field house (weight room, lockers, etc). In addition, JCM is starting year 3 next fall, and they still don't have any plans for a football stadium. The area beside the Oman Arena is not big enough. Look, Rudesill and Shutes are not the ones getting screwed. The only getting screwed is Erit Turner. He doesn't have a field. Now, they're going to have to play "home games" at the other high schools throughout the city when they're on the road. 

Politics in the city are ruining the school system in a sports perspective. First, no one wants to raise taxes to build "better" schools. The schools that are being built today should be Collierville/Franklin ish type. Massive schools that look like a small college. That's "state of the art" that will attract people to Jackson (hint: Blue Oval City for an example). In 10-15 years, JMCSS is going to have to consider talking about building a new North Side, and a new South Side. They're going to have to do it at some point. But not raising taxes for build "state of the art" schools and athletic facilities, and not having a school system that is committed to athletic success is a result for why Jackson is not dominating. As much as it the blame should be on JMCSS (which is a lot because they haven't done jack squat to help the athletes), a lot of blame should be put on the city of Jackson as well.

I'll give you an example, they built the new Madison right beside the University of Memphis Lambuth. The soccer teams are playing on the football field, the baseball team is playing on the baseball field, and the softball team will play on a field right beside the tennis courts located on the Lambuth campus. Neither of the three fields have field lights. If JMCSS wants to show an commitment and an appreciation, then they should be able to purchase lights for all three athletic teams. I don't know why Lambuth never played their games without lights. It'll cost a lot of money, but it's a necessity these days (to host district tournaments), but will the school system do it? Because Madison athletics simply cannot fundraise the money for that. 

So new facilites will improve sports and new schools will improve school performance?

People won't move to an area because of new schools or new facilites. People will move to an area when the schools and sports programs are performing well.  

[tradertwo]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:04 AM, warmachine7954 said:

Do you know all of this for a fact or just hearsay?

Why wouldn't the coaches in question sue for breach of contract? Worst case they would settle? 

I'm gonna ask this question again. 

Why doesn't JMCSS dominate West TN outside of Memphis? Why aren't coaches flocking to get jobs? 

He's right, except for a technicality. Teachers are hired to a yearly contract...by default, they have to be rehired to a "new" contract every year, which is mostly regarded as a formality as "intent to rehire" slips are issued early. There are variables to these contracts from year to year that include renegotiating, as reassignment is common. In the case of the JCM coaches, they were sold a bill of goods. Promises were made regarding duties and salary that the coaches should have recognized as unsustainable, but Shutes and Rudesill were at points in their careers where they could seize the opportunity and hope for the best.

  To answer your last question; they can/could with support. Liberty was the shiny new toy of JMCSS once upon a time as JCM is right now...within a few short years they dominated most of West Tn. and frequently beat everyone in the state in basketball...football took a little longer, but were the last Liberty program to compete in a championship game, and gave a great account. Fast forward, and not one but two excellent football coaches went the way of basketball coaches before them and left from lack of support for themselves personally, and for their programs. Facilities were way too small/inadequate to begin with, and soon were run down from lack of maintenance and funding. Being designated a Magnet, Liberty had the potential to hand select from a county of 75,000 people who went to that particular school... in short, they had the bull by the horns, and ruined it so don't expect JCM to be much different in time.

[TryNotToSuck]

4 hours ago, warmachine7954 said:

So new facilites will improve sports and new schools will improve school performance?

People won't move to an area because of new schools or new facilites. People will move to an area when the schools and sports programs are performing well.  

If JMCSS invested into North Side and Liberty when they were both winning in the early 2010's, would Tyler Turner, Steve Hookfin, and Tab Vowell leave? I doubt it. They were proven coaches that made deep playoff runs. JMCSS missed that opportunity window to invest into the athletes back then, which is an appreciation for their success. 

It's sort of a tricker down effect:

1) Raise taxes to build nice facilities like they did in Collierville/Middle Tennessee. Both in the school and in the athletic fields.

2) have a school system that is willing to invest in facilities and is willing to make sure all teams have the opportunity to be successful

3) Coaches see what's going on in from a facility standpoint. They feel appreciated for the success and feel wanted to be there. 

4) The on-field product should be better because coaches have the facilities to improve their teams throughout a period of time.

Does it work everywhere? No. But I think Milan spent $3 million for a brand new stadium. I do believe they have a new indoor facility opening up, too. It's not a matter of if, but when will Haywood County invest into new facilities? They're in talks of getting a brand new stadium, and potentially an athletic complex for baseball/softball. South Gibson built a brand new baseball (both middle and high school field), a new softball field, a new soccer field, and a new indoor facility for their minor sport athletes. Tipton County school put turf field and those new LED lights for all three of their high schools. Munford and Covington could both be playing in Chattanooga in December.

Long story short: JCM played a school in football called Liberty Creek. They're a brand new school in Gallatin that, like JCM, is playing football this year to develop and get ready to start actual play in 2023. Both schools are not actually playing "varsity" football. Not eligible.

Liberty Creek has a new double decker type football stadium, with an indoor practice field and top notch weight room inside of that. The investment is already there. And if they have a double decker type stadium and an indoor practice field, I can't imagine how nice the actual school is. Meanwhile, JCM's doesn't know where they're going to be playing high school football in 2023. 

One team, Liberty Creek, has a foundation in place for their teams to be successful. Unfortunately, JCM does not because they don't have a stadium. If Erit Turner struggles at JCM, it's because JMCSS didn't have a plan in place for him to be successful to begin with. It's 2022, it's not the 1980's anymore.

 

 

[warmachine7954]

On 10/20/2022 at 3:31 PM, tradertwo said:

He's right, except for a technicality. Teachers are hired to a yearly contract...by default, they have to be rehired to a "new" contract every year, which is mostly regarded as a formality as "intent to rehire" slips are issued early. There are variables to these contracts from year to year that include renegotiating, as reassignment is common. In the case of the JCM coaches, they were sold a bill of goods. Promises were made regarding duties and salary that the coaches should have recognized as unsustainable, but Shutes and Rudesill were at points in their careers where they could seize the opportunity and hope for the best.

  To answer your last question; they can/could with support. Liberty was the shiny new toy of JMCSS once upon a time as JCM is right now...within a few short years they dominated most of West Tn. and frequently beat everyone in the state in basketball...football took a little longer, but were the last Liberty program to compete in a championship game, and gave a great account. Fast forward, and not one but two excellent football coaches went the way of basketball coaches before them and left from lack of support for themselves personally, and for their programs. Facilities were way too small/inadequate to begin with, and soon were run down from lack of maintenance and funding. Being designated a Magnet, Liberty had the potential to hand select from a county of 75,000 people who went to that particular school... in short, they had the bull by the horns, and ruined it so don't expect JCM to be much different in time.

I'm an educator and former coach (not with JMCSS) so I know all about contracts. Those coaches had been in education long enough and they knew that too.

Liberty was a really good team when Dexter Williams was the coach. They also had some good players. I coached against them and saw if first hand. I know they guys that coach there now. 

Why does this continue to happen in such a large system? There have been a few superintendants in the past decade. I know they one was real bad. Why can't they keep up the facilites? Why can't they coaches get support?

[warmachine7954]

On 10/20/2022 at 7:52 PM, TryNotToSuck said:

If JMCSS invested into North Side and Liberty when they were both winning in the early 2010's, would Tyler Turner, Steve Hookfin, and Tab Vowell leave? I doubt it. They were proven coaches that made deep playoff runs. JMCSS missed that opportunity window to invest into the athletes back then, which is an appreciation for their success. 

It's sort of a tricker down effect:

1) Raise taxes to build nice facilities like they did in Collierville/Middle Tennessee. Both in the school and in the athletic fields.

2) have a school system that is willing to invest in facilities and is willing to make sure all teams have the opportunity to be successful

3) Coaches see what's going on in from a facility standpoint. They feel appreciated for the success and feel wanted to be there. 

4) The on-field product should be better because coaches have the facilities to improve their teams throughout a period of time.

Does it work everywhere? No. But I think Milan spent $3 million for a brand new stadium. I do believe they have a new indoor facility opening up, too. It's not a matter of if, but when will Haywood County invest into new facilities? They're in talks of getting a brand new stadium, and potentially an athletic complex for baseball/softball. South Gibson built a brand new baseball (both middle and high school field), a new softball field, a new soccer field, and a new indoor facility for their minor sport athletes. Tipton County school put turf field and those new LED lights for all three of their high schools. Munford and Covington could both be playing in Chattanooga in December.

Long story short: JCM played a school in football called Liberty Creek. They're a brand new school in Gallatin that, like JCM, is playing football this year to develop and get ready to start actual play in 2023. Both schools are not actually playing "varsity" football. Not eligible.

Liberty Creek has a new double decker type football stadium, with an indoor practice field and top notch weight room inside of that. The investment is already there. And if they have a double decker type stadium and an indoor practice field, I can't imagine how nice the actual school is. Meanwhile, JCM's doesn't know where they're going to be playing high school football in 2023. 

One team, Liberty Creek, has a foundation in place for their teams to be successful. Unfortunately, JCM does not because they don't have a stadium. If Erit Turner struggles at JCM, it's because JMCSS didn't have a plan in place for him to be successful to begin with. It's 2022, it's not the 1980's anymore.

 

 

Where are the players, in any sport, going to come from if these investments are made?

I work at Collierville. This summer when the girl's basketball job was open there weren't many applicants. The boy's basketball program has had 3 coaches in 1 season and they have alot of applicants but 90% aren't qualified for the job but none of the big names are beating down the door to get in. 

Our school is nice and the facilites are nice but I've seen Union City dominate in basketball with the same gym I played in the mid-late 90's. 

Facilites might bring people but in JMCSS to get players you've got to take from other schools. Collierville built a school because they couldn't handle the enrollment numbers in the old school. There's alot more money in Collierville than years ago too. 

JMCSS is mini version of Memphis Shelby County Schools. Gotta have the schools to serv the population but don't have enough funds to build/manage modern facilites.

[tradertwo]

3 hours ago, warmachine7954 said:

I'm an educator and former coach (not with JMCSS) so I know all about contracts. Those coaches had been in education long enough and they knew that too.

Liberty was a really good team when Dexter Williams was the coach. They also had some good players. I coached against them and saw if first hand. I know they guys that coach there now. 

Why does this continue to happen in such a large system? There have been a few superintendants in the past decade. I know they one was real bad. Why can't they keep up the facilites? Why can't they coaches get support?

It's all about managing the resources at your disposal and supporting what you have with what you have available. Looking at it from JCM's perspective you may like pulling out all the stops to be successful, but what if you're coaching at one of the other schools? Madison's boys' program had a great coach that built them into one of the favorites to get a championship a couple of years ago but left for a "better" job when the JCM coaches were hired, and you can use both coaches at South Side as examples too...both programs have been dominant in West Tn. for about a decade, yet they weren't valued by JMCSS enough to get the same deal that Rudesill and Shutes were offered. If both are not loyal to their programs to the point of sacrificing their own personal gain to stay, both of them should have left too (you know with their resume's they have been offered). Can anyone explain why funding was expended to build JCM when all the other schools in the system have lost enrollment? Use those funds to maintain or improve what you already have rather than sacrifice them in order to build an "eye catcher" that wasn't even needed enrollment wise. Sad thing is, in 15 years the "new" appeal will be gone from JCM and it will be just another unsupported school in a system that has lost enough students to South Gibson and the Jackson area privates that enrollment will dictate that they need to close one of (if not more) the schools that they already had.

Edited October 24, 2022 by tradertwo

[TryNotToSuck]

4 hours ago, tradertwo said:

It's all about managing the resources at your disposal and supporting what you have with what you have available. Looking at it from JCM's perspective you may like pulling out all the stops to be successful, but what if you're coaching at one of the other schools? Madison's boys' program had a great coach that built them into one of the favorites to get a championship a couple of years ago but left for a "better" job when the JCM coaches were hired, and you can use both coaches at South Side as examples too...both programs have been dominant in West Tn. for about a decade, yet they weren't valued by JMCSS enough to get the same deal that Rudesill and Shutes were offered. If both are not loyal to their programs to the point of sacrificing their own personal gain to stay, both of them should have left too (you know with their resume's they have been offered). Can anyone explain why funding was expended to build JCM when all the other schools in the system have lost enrollment? Use those funds to maintain or improve what you already have rather than sacrifice them in order to build an "eye catcher" that wasn't even needed enrollment wise. Sad thing is, in 15 years the "new" appeal will be gone from JCM and it will be just another unsupported school in a system that has lost enough students to South Gibson and the Jackson area privates that enrollment will dictate that they need to close one of (if not more) the schools that they already had.

Basically agreeing that Jackson is currently one school too big?

[tradertwo]

18 minutes ago, TryNotToSuck said:

Basically agreeing that Jackson is currently one school too big?

Yes...that it was not necessary to build JCM at all.

[PrepHoopsTN]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:46 AM, warmachine7954 said:

District titles are nothing to hang your hat on when the district is weak. South Side does well until they run into teams that don't turn the ball over.

Strong disagree.