A individual predictions

[oceansize42]

1 hour ago, cbg said:

Instead of everyone arguing/debating who the best kids are, we should place everyone back together for the individual state wrestling tournament.  Use a 32 man bracket and double elimination tournament and have the final on a raised stage (NCAA Finals) under the spotlight.  

This would be best but we all know it won't happen.  It is to a degree understandable to exclude private but remember it isn't wrestling that drove that decision.  It was football.  I'm not sure how most wrestling coaches feel but the one's I've talked to over the years seem to miss the single championship that existed years and years ago.

However, the logic that drove breaking out private certainly doesn't apply to public particularly since TN doesn't that have that large of a wrestling population to start with.  There should be one public individual championship.

We have all been robbed of what could have been some real barn burner matches not to mention giving kids the opportunity to claim state greatness with absolute finality.  It would also end the business of "picking" the best close weight class as almost every weight class would be extremely difficult.  Less incentive to cut for sure.

[cbg]

2 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

This would be best but we all know it won't happen.  It is to a degree understandable to exclude private but remember it isn't wrestling that drove that decision.  It was football.  I'm not sure how most wrestling coaches feel but the one's I've talked to over the years seem to miss the single championship that existed years and years ago.

However, the logic that drove breaking out private certainly doesn't apply to public particularly since TN doesn't that have that large of a wrestling population to start with.  There should be one public individual championship.

We have all been robbed of what could have been some real barn burner matches not to mention giving kids the opportunity to claim state greatness with absolute finality.  It would also end the business of "picking" the best close weight class as almost every weight class would be extremely difficult.  Less incentive to cut for sure.

Public, Private, Magnet, Open Zoned, Closed Zoned, Co-Op schools, etc... means absolutely nothing when it comes to an individual sport!  All individual sports (tennis, golf, track & field, cross country, etc...) should only have one (1) state champion. The State of Tennessee only has 6.75 million people, so we truthfully don't have a population base large enough to have three (3) individual state champions in wrestling.   The State of New Jersey (population 9.22 million), State of California (40 million population), State of Indiana (6.83 million population), and State of Kentucky (4.51 million population) still only have one (1) individual state wrestling champion.  There are only two (2) reasons that Tennessee has multiple individual state champions within an individual sport:  1.  Tennessee had and still has a turf war going on in high school athletics.  Everyone wants for Lil Johnny and Suzie to win or place at the championship level.  We currently have a few state champions every season that if they were required to go through a district and region tournament, they would not qualify for the state tournament if it were combined.  2.  The T$$AA is looking to milk every available dollar out of the member schools, parents and grandparents.  They feel that they will make much more money with very little effort by having multiple state champions.  I fully understand the separation for the dual match state tournament but to separate the individual state wrestling tournament is ludicrous.  Look, the wrestlers know who the best is and each and every state champion that I have ever spoken with welcomed a combined state championship.  This is nothing more than a bunch of soft adults that are afraid of competition because they are not assured of doing well.  

[oceansize42]

45 minutes ago, cbg said:

Public, Private, Magnet, Open Zoned, Closed Zoned, Co-Op schools, etc... means absolutely nothing when it comes to an individual sport!  All individual sports (tennis, golf, track & field, cross country, etc...) should only have one (1) state champion. The State of Tennessee only has 6.75 million people, so we truthfully don't have a population base large enough to have three (3) individual state champions in wrestling.   The State of New Jersey (population 9.22 million), State of California (40 million population), State of Indiana (6.83 million population), and State of Kentucky (4.51 million population) still only have one (1) individual state wrestling champion.  There are only two (2) reasons that Tennessee has multiple individual state champions within an individual sport:  1.  Tennessee had and still has a turf war going on in high school athletics.  Everyone wants for Lil Johnny and Suzie to win or place at the championship level.  We currently have a few state champions every season that if they were required to go through a district and region tournament, they would not qualify for the state tournament if it were combined.  2.  The T$$AA is looking to milk every available dollar out of the member schools, parents and grandparents.  They feel that they will make much more money with very little effort by having multiple state champions.  I fully understand the separation for the dual match state tournament but to separate the individual state wrestling tournament is ludicrous.  Look, the wrestlers know who the best is and each and every state champion that I have ever spoken with welcomed a combined state championship.  This is nothing more than a bunch of soft adults that are afraid of competition because they are not assured of doing well.  

Don't disagree but it was split because of football.  Football did this, not wrestling.

 

[PUMMELKING]

Why not have large and small divisions for Teams and also Individual State?  Hey if you really want to divide and throw them all together, the Criteria should be those teams with Feeder Programs either clubs or Middle Schools in one Division and those who do not in another.

That makes a lot more since rather than Large and Small Divisions.

[cbg]

6 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

Don't disagree but it was split because of football.  Football did this, not wrestling.

 

I have never heard of the public-school wrestling coaches advocating for a combined individual state tournament.  The fact is that I have never heard of one (1) public school wrestling coach asking to go back to a combined individual state tournament.  The public-school wrestling coaches ask for and received a split in the public-school individual state wrestling tournament. Those same coaches (public school) are the ones that could make a change for the better.  It's time for people to stop being soft and get something accomplished that would truly promote the sport of wrestling.  As a public-school athlete there was nothing better than beating a wrestler from Baylor or McCallie and being able to shut up their loud and obnoxious student body.  It's past time for the entire gymnasium to be rocking so loudly that you can't carry on a conversation with the person sitting next to you due to everyone cheering for the kid from Lebanon to knock off the defending state champion from Baylor.

[oceansize42]

42 minutes ago, cbg said:

I have never heard of the public-school wrestling coaches advocating for a combined individual state tournament.  The fact is that I have never heard of one (1) public school wrestling coach asking to go back to a combined individual state tournament.  The public-school wrestling coaches ask for and received a split in the public-school individual state wrestling tournament. Those same coaches (public school) are the ones that could make a change for the better.  It's time for people to stop being soft and get something accomplished that would truly promote the sport of wrestling.  As a public-school athlete there was nothing better than beating a wrestler from Baylor or McCallie and being able to shut up their loud and obnoxious student body.  It's past time for the entire gymnasium to be rocking so loudly that you can't carry on a conversation with the person sitting next to you due to everyone cheering for the kid from Lebanon to knock off the defending state champion from Baylor.

Wrestling will never ever override want football wants.  Football reigns supreme and there interest is what decides.  Wrestling in Tennessee is of no consequence.  I suppose if every coach requested to have one championship then theoretically it could happen but I don't see TSSAA putting in the effort. 

So in a nutshell all of this was caused by disgruntled wrestling coaches since you say they requested the split.  They are 100% to blame then.

What programs/coaches requested the split for individuals?  

Edited October 3, 2022 by oceansize42

[JSamson7]

4 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

Don't disagree but it was split because of football.  Football did this, not wrestling.

 

Not completely, McCallie had a hand in that. Do you not remember they caused State to be delayed in '95?

[JSamson7]

3 hours ago, cbg said:

I have never heard of the public-school wrestling coaches advocating for a combined individual state tournament.  The fact is that I have never heard of one (1) public school wrestling coach asking to go back to a combined individual state tournament.  The public-school wrestling coaches ask for and received a split in the public-school individual state wrestling tournament. Those same coaches (public school) are the ones that could make a change for the better.  It's time for people to stop being soft and get something accomplished that would truly promote the sport of wrestling.  As a public-school athlete there was nothing better than beating a wrestler from Baylor or McCallie and being able to shut up their loud and obnoxious student body.  It's past time for the entire gymnasium to be rocking so loudly that you can't carry on a conversation with the person sitting next to you due to everyone cheering for the kid from Lebanon to knock off the defending state champion from Baylor.

As far as I know, the girls State wrestling tournament is the only sport where there are no current splits. 

[WrestlingGod]

Good Lord

 

how do we have the same conversation EVERY SINGLE YEAR? Albeit, this season its happening 5 months early.

 

It won't happen. It'll never happen. The most likely scenario is they add more divisions and not take them away. 

 

Are we done with this? Can we get back to predictions please?

[noonesfool]

2 hours ago, JSamson7 said:

Not completely, McCallie had a hand in that. Do you not remember they caused State to be delayed in '95?

Correct.

[oceansize42]

Created a separate thread for discussion of who was truly responsible for the public private split.

 

New Thread Here

[cbg]

4 hours ago, JSamson7 said:

As far as I know, the girls State wrestling tournament is the only sport where there are no current splits. 

When are they going to split the girls into a public and private division