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Lack of postseason competitiveness


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Lack of postseason competitiveness   

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  1. 1. Lack of postseason competitiveness

    • Reduce the number of classes
      23
    • Champions/high finishers over time move up, lower teams level teams move down
      12
    • Nothing, leave everything as is
      13
    • Radical reclassification, such as rural-urban, or a complete merit system
      13


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Why would you reduce the number of classes? How many states have less than Tennessee? If you reduce the classes you will have teams playing in lower classes that are playing someone double their size. That’s not fair to the Coalfield’s, Copper Basin’s, Oakdale’s of the state. 
 

id be interested to know how many total teams we had playing D1 in 2009 was as compared to now. Do you have those numbers?  Just curious where we are. 

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I really don't see a clear common-sensical solution. Reducing the classes would be fair in keeping with the basic formula of assigning them by enrollment, but not so much in forcing smaller schools to compete against schools over twice their size. Not to say that the enrollment advantage can't be overcome, just that there is a clearly defined advantage.

Moving up successful programs is essentially punishing them for achieving their goals, and I don't agree with the "if it's hard, we'll change the rules" approach to reward mediocrity with an advantage over the successful just because some fail consistently and some succeed consistently.

 Leaving everything "as is" and having some subpar teams making the playoffs while better teams are at home and having some lopsided results as the result isn't perfect, and when a good solution to prevent that comes along I'll be on board. As things are, I see the current system as less of a problem than creating advantages/disadvantages where none exist in order to guarantee close games in the playoffs.

  A rural/urban split would involve population density in order to define the line between them and anytime you involve that, along follows politics, opinions, and perception, and none have a place in fairness. Once the determination is set for population, do you include magnets and/or charters with which, or separate them from both and include them with privates, or do you separate each into their own classification? Do you classify from population density or school enrollment within each class? Too many questions and not enough legitimate answers.

 A merit system could achieve the result of evenly matched playoff games but would completely eliminate the "level playing field" aspect of TSSAA"s mission statement. Win for a couple of seasons, and move up a class (my perception of the meaning) sounds great, but what do you do with Alcoa? Keep moving them up and they keep winning, so we create more restrictions...bearing in mind the last 20 years record, next season they would have to play in the SEC wearing handcuffs and ankle shackles while blindfolded. A tongue in cheek example, but based in fact... it's not in the spirit of fairness to restrict one while playing against another just because one works harder or is more talented.

 All just an opinion thrown out there for discussion.

 

 

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Just throwing this out there. Michigan uses a playoff point system to determine whose in. It used to be if you won 6 games (they play a 9 game regular season), you were automatically in the playoffs. However, that led to teams playing weak schedules to make it in. Then in 2020 they adjusted it to using playoff points based on strength of schedule and who your opponents played.

adjusted_sos_point_formula_table.pdf (mhsaa.com)

 

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i think re-working the brackets would help at least a little. this year-in, year-out cookie cutter TSSAA bracket for the playoffs is dumb. some options:


rotate the regions so people play different teams in the playoffs each year

seed them into quadrants of 1-8 based on record and SOS and don't bother with regions at all in the playoffs

there's no reason for the east/west line. if the two best teams in the state are on the same side, then they shouldn't meet until the championship. i think i read on here that georgia's championship game hasn't had a north vs south game in several years, and that's how it should be as long as the two best teams are meeting

Edited by jtm52k
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22 hours ago, CaptainLongbeard said:

Why would you reduce the number of classes? How many states have less than Tennessee? If you reduce the classes you will have teams playing in lower classes that are playing someone double their size. That’s not fair to the Coalfield’s, Copper Basin’s, Oakdale’s of the state. 
 

id be interested to know how many total teams we had playing D1 in 2009 was as compared to now. Do you have those numbers?  Just curious where we are. 

North Carolina only has 4 classes.

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On 11/29/2022 at 3:20 PM, tradertwo said:

A rural/urban split would involve population density in order to define the line between them and anytime you involve that, along follows politics, opinions, and perception, and none have a place in fairness. Once the determination is set for population, do you include magnets and/or charters with which, or separate them from both and include them with privates, or do you separate each into their own classification? Do you classify from population density or school enrollment within each class? Too many questions and not enough legitimate answers.

 

I did a very quick look at rural-urban. It came up in regional meetings a few years ago but never went anywhere. 
 

I counted 3 classes, largest with 32 teams since there weren’t a lot of big schools. I put the max at 1500 to prevent the smallest in the class from being doubled. Above 1500 would be urban and ought to to be competitive on average regardless.

Long story short, went with 32 in AAA, about 800-1500. AA with 48, a good even number, about 500-800. Remaining 65 or so (possible 8 regions with 8 teams) in 1A. 

It wouldn’t prevent all player movement but since the schools are generally further apart it would affect it in this division. 

not impossible though unlikely. 

Edited by Indian
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I believe reducing classes would not only help make playoff games more competitive but it would also make regions more even. Instead of having some regions with 5 teams and some regions with 8 it would even out most regions. It would also cut down on travel by most teams. Also it would help out with scheduling non region games. Some teams especially in smaller regions have a hard team fielding a competitive schedule. Smaller classes I would assume  equal larger regions which would mean fewer non regional games. I also think the way it is now to many teams make the playoffs. With our current format I think only 2 teams from each region should go to the playoffs. 

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54 minutes ago, Rockytoptomcat said:

I believe reducing classes would not only help make playoff games more competitive but it would also make regions more even. Instead of having some regions with 5 teams and some regions with 8 it would even out most regions. It would also cut down on travel by most teams. Also it would help out with scheduling non region games. Some teams especially in smaller regions have a hard team fielding a competitive schedule. Smaller classes I would assume  equal larger regions which would mean fewer non regional games. I also think the way it is now to many teams make the playoffs. With our current format I think only 2 teams from each region should go to the playoffs. 

TSSAA won’t buy that they want as many playoff games as they can get $$

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I have for several years thought something like this might work, at least on the D1 side. 
 

Classes stay the same. 
 

TOP 2 only from each region make the playoffs. These 16 teams receive a week off. 
 

The first weekend after the regular season, all region 3rd and 4th place finishers play a “Bowl Game”. 3s host 4s. This is a one shot only game. Both teams are finished for the season after their Bowl Game.  The next week the playoffs start with 16 teams. 

Just my two cents.

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