Too many classes discussion

[riverrat]

19 hours ago, Pirate2003 said:

Does anyone know how many total football playing schools we had in 2009 when they went to these classes in comparison to now?

June 2008 Board of Control Meeting Minutes from:

https://tn.milesplit.com/articles/18620

4. Classification plans to be considered in Division I

A. Present plan – (Classification 2005-2009)

Rationale:  Keep things as they are.

B. Three-class plan is used for football district alignment with AAA being split into two classes (5A/4A) and AA into two classes (3A/2A) for football playoff purposes.  Class A remains in one class for football due to the large number of non-football playing schools.

In football (Class AAA) the top two teams from each district (16 districts) would qualify for the playoffs for a total of 32 teams.  The upper half (by enrollment) of the schools in AAA would be 5A and the lower half would be 4A.  The 32 teams finishing 1st and 2nd in each of the 16 districts would be played in 4A and 5A.  The remaining spots in each (4A & 5A) would be filled with wild cards.  There would be 32 teams in 5A and 32 teams in 4A for a total of 64 in Class AAA.  The playoff brackets would then be set.  You would follow the same procedure for AA (2A & 3A).  The brackets would then be set in the same manner as 2A football in 2007 (needs link).

Rationale:  Places schools in the same districts in F, Bk, B, S…; decreases travel for schools by using three-class plan rather than five; keeps five football classes that have similar make-up to present plan.

C. 4-Classification Plan – We would first divide all schools in three classifications by enrollment.  All schools in Class AAA (by enrollment) would become the top classification (AAAA).  Class AAA would be all schools in metropolitan areas (as defined by the National Center for Education Statistics) in Class AA and A (by enrollment).  Class AA would be all schools in AA classification outside metropolitan areas and Class A would be all schools in Class A outside metropolitan areas.

Class AAAA would be divided into two classes for football only (same as plan for a total of five football classifications.  This could either be done as present (upper half of schools, by enrollment, in eight regions and same for lower half or follow procedure as outlined in 4B).

Rationale:  Provides better competitive equity for AA and A schools outside metropolitan areas.  Research over past 20 years shows that the schools in AA and A outside metropolitan areas have had the least successful programs in terms of tournaments, overall.

In this plan, schools isolated, geographically, would be able to appeal to move to another classification (example-Sullivan North, University School)

Division II

Classification plans to be considered in Division II

1. Present Plan – Classification (2007-2009)  
Two classes in all sports except wrestling, track, and bowling with schools being split (1/2, 1/2).

2. Place all 375 schools (entire membership) in three classes by enrollment.  This determines the break for both Division I and Division II.  Then allow all schools the option of going to Division II.

Rationale:  Lets all schools know what class they are in, whether Division I or Division II.  Presently, schools choose Division I or Division II.  Presently, schools choose Division I or Division II, then we set classification breaks.

Note:  Division II would then be two classes (A and AA/AAA)

3. Have three classes in football and two in all other sports except wrestling, track, and bowling.  

Note:   There are many consequences of any classification decision.  This is meant to provide an overall picture of the major decisions that will be made in, hopefully, a concise manner.  Any further questions should be directed to members of the staff.

[riverrat]

19 hours ago, Pirate2003 said:

Does anyone know how many total football playing schools we had in 2009 when they went to these classes in comparison to now?

Knew I had them somewhere.

Here is what I have from 2009:

Division 2-A
Elliston Baptist Academy	29
Riverside Christian Academy	76
Zion Christian Academy	103
Memphis Catholic High School	130
Lancaster Christian Academy	131
Rossville Christian Academy	141
King's Academy	144
Mt. Juliet Christian Academy	153
Bishop Byrne High School	179
St. Andrew's – Sewanee School	186
Tipton-Rosemark Academy	203
The Webb School	217
Immaculate Conception High School	218
Franklin Road Academy	239
Lausanne Collegiate School	252
Fayette Academy	262
Ezell-Harding Christian School	262
Davidson Academy	269
Donelson Christian Academy	291
First Assembly Christian School	309
Jackson Christian School	326
University School of Jackson	350
University School of Nashville	361
Southern Baptist Educational Center	362
Harding Academy	367
St. George's Independent School	372
St. Mary's Episcopal School	458
Webb School of Knoxville	474
St. Cecilia Academy	478
Evangelical Christian School	510
Division 2-AA
Battle Ground Academy	392
Ensworth High School	427
Brentwood Academy	463
Hutchison School	466
Briarcrest Christian School	567
St. Agnes Academy	608
Pope John Paul II High School	635
Baylor School	712
Harpeth Hall High School	736
Girls Preparatory School	784
Memphis University School	828
Father Ryan High School	870
St. Benedict at Auburndale	983
Montgomery Bell Academy	1140
McCallie School	1304
Christian Brothers High School	1778
Division 1-A
Knoxville Christian School	31
Clinch High School	48
Carroll Academy	70
Tennessee School for the Deaf	75
Memphis Academy of Health Sciences	83
F.C. Boyd	Sr. Christian School	97
Frank Hughes High School	103
J. Frank White Academy	108
Richard Hardy Memorial School	111
21st Century Academy	122
Hampshire High School	126
Big Sandy High School	134
Clarksburg High School	146
Sunbright High School	154	1A
Gleason High School	169	1A
Washburn High School	176
Oakdale High School	176	1A
Berean Christian School	185
Pickett Co. High School	187	1A
Greenfield High School	195	1A
David Brainerd Christian School	198	1A
Bradford High School	204
Santa Fe High School	207
Huntland High School	210	1A
Sale Creek School	211
Copper Basin High School	222	1A
Coalfield High School	224	1A
Greenback High School	226	1A
Memphis Middle College High School	231
Merrol Hyde Magnet School	233
Red Boiling Springs High School	234	1A
South Pittsburg High School	243	1A
Hollow Rock-Bruceton Central High School	245	1A
South Fulton High School	248	1A
Cloudland High School	251	1A
Lookout Valley High School	253	1A
Van Buren Co. High School	257
Lake Co. High School	261	1A
University School	274
Memphis Academy of Science & Engineering	278
Clarkrange High School	283
Midway High School	287	1A
City University School of Liberal Arts	304
Culleoka High School	312
Jo Byrns High School	315	1A
Hancock County High School	316	1A
Nashville Christian School	319	1A
Moore Co. High School	321	1A
McEwen High School	322	1A
Cornersville High School	326	1A
Clarksville Academy	329	1A
Columbia Academy	331	1A
West Carroll High School	334	1A
Perry Co. High School	334	1A
Gordonsville High School	334	1A
Union City High School	344	1A
Collinwood High School	347	1A
Monterey High School	350	1A
Clay Co. High School	352	1A
Harriman High School	367	1A
Halls High School	377	1A
Tennessee Temple Academy	378
Middle Tennessee Christian School	382	1A
Whitwell High School	382	1A
Wayne Co. High School	382	1A
Huntingdon High School	382	1A
Eagleville High School	383	1A
Grace Christian Academy	389	1A
Jellico High School	390	2A
Friendship Christian School	392	2A
Watertown High School	398	2A
North Greene High School	398	2A
Middleton High School	403	2A
Rockwood High School	404	2A
Oneida High School	405	2A
Treadwell High School	409	2A
Peabody High School	412	2A
Richland High School	413	2A
Unaka High School	419	2A
McKenzie High School	419	2A
Dresden High School	419	2A
Silverdale Baptist Academy	425	2A
Mt. Pleasant High School	426	2A
Grace Baptist Academy	434	2A
Summertown High School	436
Community High School	436	2A
Hampton High School	437	2A
Trinity Christian Academy	443	2A
Humboldt High School	447	2A
Scotts Hill High School	448	2A
South Gibson High School	450	2A
Trousdale Co. High School	451	2A
Signal Mountain High School	454	2A
Chatt. School for the Arts & Sciences	454
Houston Co. High School	455	2A
East Robertson High School	456	2A
Wartburg Central High School	457	2A
Oliver Springs High School	460	2A
White House Heritage High School	461	2A
Madison Academic Magnet High School	466
Forrest High School	478	2A
Adamsville High School	479	2A
Cosby High School	483	2A
Marion Co. High School	494	2A
Cascade High School	498	2A
Boyd Buchanan High School	500	2A
Westwood High School	501	2A
Jackson Co. High School	511	2A
Douglass High School	513	2A
Tellico Plains High School	515	2A
Decatur Co. Riverside High School	517	2A
Loretto High School	519	2A
Division 1-AA
South Greene High School	531	3A
Oakhaven High School	542	3A
Bledsoe Co. High School	542	3A
Alcoa High School	544	3A
Westmoreland High School	550	3A
Tyner Academy	553	3A
Meigs Co. High School	559	3A
Lewis Co. High School	587	3A
Gatlinburg-Pittman High School	590	3A
Christ Presbyterian Academy	590	3A
Upperman High School	593	3A
Hickman Co. High School	599	3A
Polk Co. High School	603	3A
East Hickman High School	611	3A
Happy Valley High School	614	3A
Manassas High School	615	3A
Cumberland Gap High School	615	3A
Goodpasture Christian School	625	3A
Milan High School	626	3A
Sullivan North High School	638	3A
B. T. Washington High School	642	3A
Camden Central High School	645	3A
Harpeth High School	648	3A
Sweetwater High School	667	3A
Smith Co. High School	667	3A
Gibson Co. High School	667	3A
Westview High School	672	3A
Pearl Cohn High School	675	3A
Sequatchie Co. High School	681	3A
Collegedale Academy	686
Waverly Central High School	693	3A
Alvin C. York Institute	694	3A
Howard School of Academics & Tech.	695	3A
Loudon High School	702	3A
Fairview High School	705	3A
West Greene High School	706	3A
Cheatham Co. Central High School	712	3A
George Washington Carver High School	714	3A
Jackson Central-Merry High School	716	3A
Chuckey-Doak High School	718	3A
Johnson Co. High School	723	3A
Stewart Co. High School	729	3A
Christian Academy of Knoxville	734	3A
Austin-East High School	741	3A
Martin Luther King High School	744
Kingston High School	747	3A
Cannon Co. High School	748	3A
Unicoi Co. High School	756	3A
Grundy Co. High School	757	3A
Memphis North Side High School	758	3A
Hixson High School	761	3A
Elizabethton High School	761	3A
Chattanooga Christian School	770	3A
Pigeon Forge High School	775	3A
East Literature Magnet School	786	3A
McMinn Central High School	802	4A
Scott High School	805	4A
Crockett Co. High School	821	4A
DeKalb Co. High School	824	4A
Marshall Co. High School	825	4A
Covington High School	828	4A
Jackson South Side High School	839	4A
Sycamore High School	842	4A
Chester Co. High School	845	4A
McNairy Central High School	855	4A
Hume-Fogg Academic Magnet	857
East Ridge High School	857	4A
Claiborne High School	857	4A
Sheffield High School	861	4A
Union Co. High School	866	4A
Greenbrier High School	868	4A
Lexington High School	869	4A
Hillcrest High School	879	4A
Page High School	884	4A
Spring Hill High School	889	4A
Grainger County High School	891	4A
Greeneville High School	892	4A
Bolivar Central High School	895	4A
White House High School	897	4A
Ripley High School	898	4A
Brainerd High School	906	4A
Notre Dame High School	913	4A
Macon Co. High School	913	4A
Livingston Academy	922	4A
Stratford High School	929	4A
Fayette-Ware Comprehensive High School	935	4A
Obion Co. Central High School	936	4A
Haywood High School	945	4A
East Hamilton	948	4A
Giles Co. High School	955	4A
Montgomery Central High School	957	4A
Liberty Technology Magnet High School	964	4A
Trezevant High School	966	4A
David Lipscomb High School	968	4A
Creek Wood High School	980	4A
Red Bank High School	981	4A
Sequoyah High School	982	4A
Fulton High School	983	4A
Frayser High School	988	4A
Sullivan East High School	989	4A
Kingsbury High School	1005	4A
Stone Memorial High School	1012	4A
Fairley High School	1012	4A
Maplewood Comprehensive High School	1018	4A
Gibbs High School	1022	4A
Carter High School	1028	4A
Whites Creek High School	1043	4A
Dyersburg High School	1049	4A
Chattanooga Central High School	1065	4A
Division 1-AAA
West Creek High School	786	5A
Northeast High School	920	5A
Mitchell High School	1015	5A
Memphis East High School	1067	5A
Sullivan Central High School	1069	5A
Portland High School	1072	5A
Springfield High School	1076	5A
Dyer Co. High School	1090	5A
Sullivan South High School	1094	5A
Cumberland Co. High School	1113	5A
Knoxville Catholic High School	1123	5A
Tullahoma High School	1145	5A
Anderson Co. High School	1150	5A
Lawrence Co. High School	1155	5A
Jackson North Side High School	1167	5A
Station Camp High School	1186	5A
Kenwood High School	1203	5A
Seymour High School	1216	5A
Craigmont High School	1217	5A
Cherokee High School	1218	5A
Knoxville Central High School	1230	5A
Beech Senior High School	1230	5A
Hardin Co. High School	1246	5A
White Co. High School	1249	5A
Volunteer High School	1249	5A
Northwest High School	1255	5A
Hillwood High School	1255	5A
Centennial High School	1256	5A
Hillsboro High School	1258	5A
Munford High School	1260	5A
Shelbyville Central High School	1263	5A
Lenoir City High School	1268	5A
Melrose High School	1288	5A
Raleigh Egypt High School	1292	5A
Cleveland High School	1303	5A
Overton High School	1314	5A
Knoxville Halls High School	1323	5A
Ridgeway High School	1330	5A
Hamilton High School	1341	5A
Tennessee High School	1342	5A
Cocke Co. High School	1343	5A
David Crockett High School	1346	5A
Clarksville High School	1352	5A
Clinton High School	1365	5A
South Doyle High School	1373	5A
Cane Ridge High School	1376	5A
Hendersonville High School	1385	5A
West High School	1392	5A
Gallatin High School	1397	5A
Powell High School	1403	5A
Daniel Boone High School	1407	5A
Morristown-Hamblen High School West	1409	5A
Columbia Central High School	1416	5A
Bartlett High School	1430	5A
Glencliff High School	1434	5A
Campbell Co. High School	1437	5A
Walker Valley High School	1459	5A
Henry Co. High School	1460	6A
Morristown-Hamblen High School East	1464	6A
Brighton High School	1466	6A
Rhea Co. High School	1472	6A
Franklin Co. High School	1472	6A
Southwind High School	1474	6A
Brentwood High School	1491	6A
Rossview High School	1498	6A
Lincoln Co. High School	1500	6A
Oak Ridge High School	1506	6A
Karns High School	1511	6A
Dickson Co. High School	1523	6A
Millington Central High School	1530	6A
McMinn Co. High School	1530	6A
Wooddale High School	1533	6A
Lebanon High School	1544	6A
Maryville High School	1555	6A
Soddy-Daisy High School	1570	6A
Oakland High School	1597	6A
Hardin Valley Academy	1605	6A
Wilson Central High School	1628	6A
Coffee Co. Central High School	1655	6A
Bradley Central High School	1682	6A
Heritage High School	1688	6A
John Overton High School	1690	6A
Germantown High School	1696	6A
Memphis Central High School	1709	6A
Kirby High School	1756	6A
Independence High School	1763	6A
Warren Co. High School	1781	6A
Mt. Juliet High School	1790	6A
Sevier Co. High School	1792	6A
Ravenwood High School	1797	6A
Franklin High School	1802	6A
Hunters Lane High School	1821	6A
William Blount High School	1876	6A
Bolton High School	1889	6A
Farragut High School	1893	6A
Blackman High School	1897	6A
Ooltewah High School	1909	6A
Bearden High School	1931	6A
Dobyns Bennett High School	1942	6A
Houston High School	1957	6A
Collierville High School	2003	6A
Arlington High School	2004	6A
Antioch High School	2004	6A
Smyrna High School	2028	6A
Whitehaven High School	2041	6A
LaVergne High School	2064	6A
Cordova High School	2065	6A
Siegel High School	2109	6A
White Station High School	2142	6A
Science Hill High School	2158	6A
Cookeville High School	2178	6A
Riverdale High School	2312	6A
Jefferson Co. High School	2318	6A
McGavock High School	2817	6A

[riverrat]

Here is how they did the districts.

https://tricitiessports.com/tssaa-opts-for-playoff-change-in-football-p26869.htm

[rlh]

The Z plan can be avoided by going with 4 classifications.  Varying size of districts or regions is one thing, but when you have 1a/2a mixed together for the regular season, it adds 2 more layers of equine excrement come playoffs. 

[rlh]

1 hour ago, riverrat said:

Here is how they did the districts.

https://tricitiessports.com/tssaa-opts-for-playoff-change-in-football-p26869.htm

That didn't go into effect right away.  Signal Mountain was in the z-Plan district with SP in 2010 and beat Trousdale in the Semis and won the 2010 gold ball as the best 4a team in 2a.

[Pirate2003]

I counted around 43-45 football playing schools in 1A in 2009. Now I believe we have more than that in each D1 class.  So I guess my point is we have more than that in 1A now so when that talk starts of classes being more watered down.. according to the first numbers from 6 classes in D1 for 2009 that’s not quite what the numbers show. 

[rlh]

52 minutes ago, Pirate2003 said:

I counted around 43-45 football playing schools in 1A in 2009. Now I believe we have more than that in each D1 class.  So I guess my point is we have more than that in 1A now so when that talk starts of classes being more watered down.. according to the first numbers from 6 classes in D1 for 2009 that’s not quite what the numbers show. 

Currently its 49 or 50 in each Class. 

[crow]

1 hour ago, rlh said:

Currently its 49 or 50 in each Class. 

And roughly 65% of them make the playoffs each year. 

[XBOX]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Pirate2003 said:

That’s never going to happen in the public sector. The schools with 150 kids would be playing schools with 650-700. 
 

If they wanted to cut anything it should be the private division. Count the teams per class there compared to the public. That private league only needs 2 classes. 

Why not?  1988 had only 3 Classes.......only and the playoff games were slammed packed and I attended the AAA state title game at Vandy with 32,000 in attendance.  I was at 1987 AAA game 28,000  
1990 Class A game with 15,000.   You don't have to win a state title to have a special year.  Less classes means the quarters/semis would be a huge deal.  I also say the season goes too long...too many games.....too many playoff spots.  Take the top two and open up bowl games for the rest.  Would make regular season games more valuable.  
Just a take and I know it wouldn't be popular but being a 4-6 team in a playoff is nothing but a money grab, and from what I am seeing, these gates aren't cashing in anyway.  I attended a semi-final game and I swear it was like a regular season game.  Weak crowds.  Finally, I think the NFHS Network has destroyed gates.  Do I use it? Yep!  But, you can't say it hasn't hurt things.  Finally 2.0, put the state title games back at Vandy.  The whole vandy neighborhood is a great setup.  Kids can always say they played in an SEC stadium.

Good topic for discussion

[MidTennFootball]

On 12/14/2022 at 2:33 PM, XBOX said:

Why not?  1988 had only 3 Classes.......only and the playoff games were slammed packed and I attended the AAA state title game at Vandy with 32,000 in attendance.  I was at 1987 AAA game 28,000  
1990 Class A game with 15,000.   You don't have to win a state title to have a special year.  Less classes means the quarters/semis would be a huge deal.  I also say the season goes too long...too many games.....too many playoff spots.  Take the top two and open up bowl games for the rest.  Would make regular season games more valuable.  
Just a take and I know it wouldn't be popular but being a 4-6 team in a playoff is nothing but a money grab, and from what I am seeing, these gates aren't cashing in anyway.  I attended a semi-final game and I swear it was like a regular season game.  Weak crowds.  Finally, I think the NFHS Network has destroyed gates.  Do I use it? Yep!  But, you can't say it hasn't hurt things.  Finally 2.0, put the state title games back at Vandy.  The whole vandy neighborhood is a great setup.  Kids can always say they played in an SEC stadium.

Good topic for discussion

Not as much to do back then either. As technology has made the world smaller, also means every town and city has a large population that has zero connection to any of the local schools

I wish we didn't have so many classes, but that's the reality of things. Going back to 3-4 classes is a pipe dream, I have major doubts even seeing it go back to 5 classes. 

As far as playoffs qualification goes, I would be ok with only making the top 2 teams in each region automatic and make the rest wild card teams