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TSSAA Individual State Discussion


WrestlingGod
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IMO, there is an option to combine what we have today into two days (say Friday and Saturday) and then have the state champs from big and small school wrestle each other the next day.  Or however you want to work out the schedule.  Private school is off at prep nationals that weekend I believe, so would just be king of the hill for big and small schools.  That way you pour more into the funnel and more kids get a chance to be state qualifiers and placers and you get to see who comes out the bottom of the funnel, which public school kid at each weight is the best on that day.  Even if TSSAA doesn't want to do it, someone could organize it ahead of the backyard brawl to see who represents there.  If private, it could be done after prep nationals and include one state champ from each division and do a round robin (two matches each in a day) or invite a fourth from the finalist pool and do a blind draw.  You gotta beat the best to be the best and no one would be gunning for second place.

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49 minutes ago, OldSchool712 said:

I see this a totally different way because I think promoting the sport is much more important than having one state champ. Mainly because I love the sport and I think it build a tremendous amount of character and discipline if done correctly. Small schools don’t have the resources that large schools have nor do they have the population. Where small schools wrestle who they have in the weight classes, I know some of the larger schools may have 3 or more in each weight class. That is a distinct advantage to be able to train with a group close to the same weight as you. Not just one partner but multiple. It makes a difference. The small rural public schools also don’t recruit(which is a TSSAA violation but a lot still of schools still do it) . I know this is true because my cousin received an out of district scholarship to attend a neighboring school district. It just so happened she was a phenomenal softball player. Her brother was just an average athlete and still goes to the school in their district. Small schools usually don’t have the facilities or coaching staff to wow likely athletes to come there. A lot of the kids that wrestle for some of these schools have never even been to a class on the campus(virtual classes). High School sports used to be just that but now it is no different than college or pro. People are getting recruited to say they attend just so the school can brag about how good they are. Most of the small school athletes play multiple sports, not because they are trying to be superstars but because there aren’t enough athletes to play just one sport. If you want to kill participation in the sport instead of promoting it and promoting the love of it then have these small schools that may have 900 students total try to compete with schools that have 3000 students. Then there is the monetary issue. Most of these rural school districts are economically disadvantaged. The students do not have parents with the means for camps, private lessons, personal trainers, and nutritionist. I think it is awesome if some do because it will improve that kid tremendously but let’s not forget this is a school sport and the kids that fall in love with it will get more of their peers involved and grow the sport. I guess my point is what is the goal to grow the sport or to establish bragging rights?

Just starting an argument so don’t beat me up. Ha ha 

Ever since I have been in TN people hate on small schools and claim they are disadvantaged or can’t compete with large schools. I would love to see a TRI. Small school state champs vs big school vs private school champs. 
 

Small schools aren’t as deep but there is a lot of talent. I may be a little biased but I think small school would win. Just my opinion though. 
 

Sid Mason

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So just Big vs Small match ups here. Who do you think would come out on top?

 

106-

Samuel Comes (Seymour) vs Jose Cordero (Cleveland)

113-

Jojo Uhorchuck (Signal Mountain) vs Mason Jakob (Dobyns Bennett) 

120-

Carson Dupill (Greenville) vs Bryson Terrell (Bradley Central) 

126-

Ethan Uhorchuck (SIgnal Mountain) vs Jarvis Little (Summit)

132-

Caleb Uhorchuck (Signal Mountain) vs Ethan Lipsey (Bradley Central)

138-

Harlen Hunley (Knoxville Halls) vs Landon Desselle (Summit)

145-

Hunter Mason (Greenville) vs Luke Belcher (Bradley Central)

152-

Colin Dupill (Greenville) vs Logan Fowler (Cleveland) 

160-

Thomas Magness (Harpeth) vs Max Norman (Dobyns Bennett)

170-

Jake Stacey (Green Hill) vs Lucas Syzmborski (Cleveland)

182-

Kobe Smith (Red Bank) vs Aiden Brenot (Clarksville)

195-

Morgan Lowrey (Greenville) vs Devon Medina (Science Hill)

220-

Rob Atwood (Trousdale Co) vs Noah Todd (Wilson Central) 

285-

Caleb Wolfe (Pigeon Forge) vs Hayden McDonald (Maryville)

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6 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

So just Big vs Small match ups here. Who do you think would come out on top?

 

106-

Samuel Comes (Seymour) vs Jose Cordero (Cleveland)

113-

Jojo Uhorchuck (Signal Mountain) vs Mason Jakob (Dobyns Bennett) 

120-

Carson Dupill (Greenville) vs Bryson Terrell (Bradley Central) 

126-

Ethan Uhorchuck (SIgnal Mountain) vs Jarvis Little (Summit)

132-

Caleb Uhorchuck (Signal Mountain) vs Ethan Lipsey (Bradley Central)

138-

Harlen Hunley (Knoxville Halls) vs Landon Desselle (Summit)

145-

Hunter Mason (Greenville) vs Luke Belcher (Bradley Central)

152-

Colin Dupill (Greenville) vs Logan Fowler (Cleveland) 

160-

Thomas Magness (Harpeth) vs Max Norman (Dobyns Bennett)

170-

Jake Stacey (Green Hill) vs Lucas Syzmborski (Cleveland)

182-

Kobe Smith (Red Bank) vs Aiden Brenot (Clarksville)

195-

Morgan Lowrey (Greenville) vs Devon Medina (Science Hill)

220-

Rob Atwood (Trousdale Co) vs Noah Todd (Wilson Central) 

285-

Caleb Wolfe (Pigeon Forge) vs Hayden McDonald (Maryville)

Now I am just being a sissy.  I know most all of the kids to well to pick one over the other. I would have dads and moms chewing me out. Ha ha 

we have seen a lot of these matchups though  

 

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36 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

Just starting an argument so don’t beat me up. Ha ha 

Ever since I have been in TN people hate on small schools and claim they are disadvantaged or can’t compete with large schools. I would love to see a TRI. Small school state champs vs big school vs private school champs. 
 

Small schools aren’t as deep but there is a lot of talent. I may be a little biased but I think small school would win. Just my opinion though. 
 

Sid Mason

I think Small school only wins 120, 145, 152, and heavyweight. 

 

Big school picks up bonus points at 106,113,138,160,182 and possibly 195 as well. 

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1 hour ago, OldSchool712 said:

I see this a totally different way because I think promoting the sport is much more important than having one state champ. Mainly because I love the sport and I think it build a tremendous amount of character and discipline if done correctly. Small schools don’t have the resources that large schools have nor do they have the population. Where small schools wrestle who they have in the weight classes, I know some of the larger schools may have 3 or more in each weight class. That is a distinct advantage to be able to train with a group close to the same weight as you. Not just one partner but multiple. It makes a difference. The small rural public schools also don’t recruit(which is a TSSAA violation but a lot still of schools still do it) . I know this is true because my cousin received an out of district scholarship to attend a neighboring school district. It just so happened she was a phenomenal softball player. Her brother was just an average athlete and still goes to the school in their district. Small schools usually don’t have the facilities or coaching staff to wow likely athletes to come there. A lot of the kids that wrestle for some of these schools have never even been to a class on the campus(virtual classes). High School sports used to be just that but now it is no different than college or pro. People are getting recruited to say they attend just so the school can brag about how good they are. Most of the small school athletes play multiple sports, not because they are trying to be superstars but because there aren’t enough athletes to play just one sport. If you want to kill participation in the sport instead of promoting it and promoting the love of it then have these small schools that may have 900 students total try to compete with schools that have 3000 students. Then there is the monetary issue. Most of these rural school districts are economically disadvantaged. The students do not have parents with the means for camps, private lessons, personal trainers, and nutritionist. I think it is awesome if some do because it will improve that kid tremendously but let’s not forget this is a school sport and the kids that fall in love with it will get more of their peers involved and grow the sport. I guess my point is what is the goal to grow the sport or to establish bragging rights?

I fully understand what you are saying but I am going to strongly disagree.  My thoughts have been and will continue to be the following:  1. There is absolutely no reason that individual sports (wrestling, tennis, track and field, bowling, swimming and diving, etc...) should ever crown more than one champion.  Just because someone wrestles for a school with a small enrollment does not mean that they cannot or should not win a state championship.  2.  It doesn't matter if high school athletes attend small rural schools, private schools, large public schools, inner city schools, etc... they will all be thrown into a pool and forced to compete for jobs and college admissions with the rest of the world when they graduate.  Why not learn to compete while they are in high school? This idea that everything must be exactly fair is BS as life has never been fair.  I know of very few parents that threat their children exactly the same as all kids are different!  The facts are that people learn much more from their failures than they ever do from their successes.  What wrestling truly teaches kids is that you should try your best to outwork your competition so that you have an opportunity to win a championship, but if you do not succeed you have established a great work ethic that will carry you throughout your life and you know how to pick yourself up and continue to move forward.  

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15 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

I think Small school only wins 120, 145, 152, and heavyweight. 

 

Big school picks up bonus points at 106,113,138,160,182 and possibly 195 as well. 

Pretty low on the signal mountain boys.  Don’t sleep on Morgan Lowery at 195 either.  
 

would be fun to see it though 

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9 minutes ago, Mason422 said:

Pretty low on the signal mountain boys.  Don’t sleep on Morgan Lowery at 195 either.  
 

would be fun to see it though 

Not low on the Uhorchucks, Jakobs is just a different animal at 113 and Lipsey beat Caleb this year already at 132. The closest of the three i'd think would be at 26. And even on that one I'm leaning towards Jarvis. 

 

Again, nothing against the brothers. 

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1 hour ago, cbg said:

I fully understand what you are saying but I am going to strongly disagree.  My thoughts have been and will continue to be the following:  1. There is absolutely no reason that individual sports (wrestling, tennis, track and field, bowling, swimming and diving, etc...) should ever crown more than one champion.  Just because someone wrestles for a school with a small enrollment does not mean that they cannot or should not win a state championship.  2.  It doesn't matter if high school athletes attend small rural schools, private schools, large public schools, inner city schools, etc... they will all be thrown into a pool and forced to compete for jobs and college admissions with the rest of the world when they graduate.  Why not learn to compete while they are in high school? This idea that everything must be exactly fair is BS as life has never been fair.  I know of very few parents that threat their children exactly the same as all kids are different!  The facts are that people learn much more from their failures than they ever do from their successes.  What wrestling truly teaches kids is that you should try your best to outwork your competition so that you have an opportunity to win a championship, but if you do not succeed you have established a great work ethic that will carry you throughout your life and you know how to pick yourself up and continue to move forward.  

I do understand your logic as well but again you are apparently large school and think small school is demeaning the big school title. Guaranteed most of these large schools are not coached by a PE teacher that is only coaching wrestling because the administrators told him he had to coach something. They are hired and payed to coach. They have money for weight rooms and training facilities. This is not the kids fault. He is performing at the top of his abilities with the opportunity he is given.


You wouldn’t think someone can do calculus just because they had a basic math class freshman year. It is about opportunity. I don’t think having divisions hurts the competition. Even college has divisions based on sizes D1, D2, D3. It doesn’t make it any less of an accomplishment.

Once again it is about getting kids involved. You said we should teach kids to compete for jobs and colleges but you wouldn’t expect them to perform well if they weren’t prepared. 

My whole argument is that getting kids involved in the sport is the important thing. You obviously do not feel the same. My kid has wrestled in both big and small school and performed well in both but that is because I do have the means to get the additional training and support. Not all schools or kids are that lucky. No not everyone deserves a trophy but let’s at least let the little guy know he can compete. Once again i think we need to grow the sport not egos.

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2 hours ago, WrestlingGod said:

So just Big vs Small match ups here. Who do you think would come out on top?

 

106-

Samuel Comes (Seymour) vs Jose Cordero (Cleveland)

113-

Jojo Uhorchuck (Signal Mountain) vs Mason Jakob (Dobyns Bennett) 

120-

Carson Dupill (Greenville) vs Bryson Terrell (Bradley Central) 

126-

Ethan Uhorchuck (SIgnal Mountain) vs Jarvis Little (Summit)

132-

Caleb Uhorchuck (Signal Mountain) vs Ethan Lipsey (Bradley Central)

138-

Harlen Hunley (Knoxville Halls) vs Landon Desselle (Summit)

145-

Hunter Mason (Greenville) vs Luke Belcher (Bradley Central)

152-

Colin Dupill (Greenville) vs Logan Fowler (Cleveland) 

160-

Thomas Magness (Harpeth) vs Max Norman (Dobyns Bennett)

170-

Jake Stacey (Green Hill) vs Lucas Syzmborski (Cleveland)

182-

Kobe Smith (Red Bank) vs Aiden Brenot (Clarksville)

195-

Morgan Lowrey (Greenville) vs Devon Medina (Science Hill)

220-

Rob Atwood (Trousdale Co) vs Noah Todd (Wilson Central) 

285-

Caleb Wolfe (Pigeon Forge) vs Hayden McDonald (Maryville)

OHHH yes, totally bias opinion coming at you! So be prepared, but I am 100% willing to debate most of these.

106- AA: at least a major decision. I believe the Soddy kid would have won A and Cordero majors him.

113- AA: Minor decision. I like Mason ALOT, but Jojo is tricky and I think he keeps it close, Mason scores a turn on top to win it late.

120- A: Minor decision. We saw it happen earlier in the year, and this was the result. Terrell could flip it but he's gonna have to be able to score somewhere other than bottom and we did not see that before.

126- AA: Minor Decision. Big Caleb fan but I have seen Jarvis just get better and better in the scrambles if Ethan can not score on his feet Jarvis squeaks one out.

132- AA: Minor decision. Lipsey gets it done, but its a barn burner late in my opinion. without the Uhorchucks flipping one of the this dual gets risky!

138- AA: Minor decision. Hunley has better hips than most give him credit for, and he can score points. I am playing the imaginary everyone is healthy game here because a super banged up Desselle could be in trouble with this one.

145- A: Tech. I told you it could get biased quick so do not slaughter me here. I think Belcher is good enough to keep this close, but the wrong ref may stall him out of this match. Belcher opens up to try and win the match not caring about team scores and gives up too many turns.

152- A: Major. I get it at this point I am just a super homer. I think Colin Dupill is better on his feet than anyone in the state and better than 90% of all 152 in the country. And he's really really good at escaping on bottom. Fowler could keep this closer but I would go 18-9 Dupill.

160- AA Minor decision. Norman is good but he has flaws in his game at times. I do not think Norman pushes the pace enough and Magness can escape 11-5 for only a minor. Norman has the potential to pin here though.

170- A Minor decision. I will go Stacy here. He has better wins and looked like he was on a heater at State going major in the Finals. He also has multiple wins over the guy Syzmborski beat in his own bracket. 

182- AA Major. Who does not love Brenot? He is an animal, and he may go tech here, but if I am not giving Dupill at 152 a tech then I won't give Brenot one. I think he scores a lot but falls just shy of the tech.

195- A Minor. Lowery should have been a 3 timer, I truly believe that. He struggled a lot with injury but this year the pace and skill are to much Medina. I believe Medina keeps this a minor on strength alone but he gets gassed and barely holds off the Major in the 3rd.

220- A: Minor. This is the hardest match to call in my opinion. Atwood has all the Firepower, but Todd wins a lot. The weight may swing this in Todd's favor but I think Atwood just has to much for him here.

285- A: Minor. Wolfe is undersized here but he is significantly a better wrestler. I would like to say HWT has to end in a pin but I think Wolfe goes the distance with better cardio to win it.

 

Final- AA 23: A 24 

Fun to see!! Lots of these could flip or go for bigger points.

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2 hours ago, Ummmno said:

I think Small school only wins 120, 145, 152, and heavyweight. 

 

Big school picks up bonus points at 106,113,138,160,182 and possibly 195 as well. 

Ooooh I went bonus at 106 and 182. I could see them going bonus at 160 possibly. 138 Jarvis has shown the tendency to shut it down and be very comfortable only winning by a few points but maybe he blows that thing wide open!

I flipped on you at 195 though, wish that match could have happened this year, just never lined up correctly

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14 minutes ago, OleSweatpants said:

 

138- AA: Minor decision. Hunley has better hips than most give him credit for, and he can score points. I am playing the imaginary everyone is healthy game here because a super banged up Desselle could be in trouble with this one.

 

Probably again showing too much bias here....but Landon went through this whole season on that injury. Citing it as a reason why he doesn't bonus is crazy. He aa'd in Beast of the East, Knockout Classic, Won the Drennen, and pinned in the state finlals with said injury. To think he doesn't pin here is insane. 

 

I'd bet my next paycheck that Landon Desselle Pins Harlen Hunley. 

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