New Postseason Format

[thunderbolts]

As the season is about to begin, I heard rumors that the postseason format has changed for Division I (public schools) this year. Is this correct? 

[Summit22]

I believe so. This is what I was told. District tournaments still work the same. Region tournaments are now double elimination with the 4 teams that make the tournament, and sectionals is now a 3 game series. Games 1 and 2 in the sectional is a double header at the higher seeds home field and if those games are split then game 3 is at the lower seeds field the next day. 

[TryNotToSuck]

On 2/28/2023 at 11:01 AM, Summit22 said:

I believe so. This is what I was told. District tournaments still work the same. Region tournaments are now double elimination with the 4 teams that make the tournament, and sectionals is now a 3 game series. Games 1 and 2 in the sectional is a double header at the higher seeds home field and if those games are split then game 3 is at the lower seeds field the next day. 

That last part is new. I knew the three game series is true, I know the double elimination is true. Back to the 3 game series, I do think all 3 games are at the higher seeds field, but I do think the "road" team will be the "home" team in one of those games. I don't think they're literally going to drive to that place to play that game.

[Summit22]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:45 PM, TryNotToSuck said:

That last part is new. I knew the three game series is true, I know the double elimination is true. Back to the 3 game series, I do think all 3 games are at the higher seeds field, but I do think the "road" team will be the "home" team in one of those games. I don't think they're literally going to drive to that place to play that game.

Just passing along what I was told by a head coach. Nobody knows for sure how it'll work until May. 

[TryNotToSuck]

13 hours ago, Summit22 said:

Just passing along what I was told by a head coach. Nobody knows for sure how it'll work until May. 

Got cha!

[XBOX]

Game three is at the same location as games 1 & 2.  There is no traveling to the lower seed for game 3 

Major issues with this format.  "They (whomever they is) wants to see the best teams in state tournament, not the best arm."   The following is from a small school (Class A/AA) opinion.  Note: If I am a large school (Class AAA/AAAA), I would be for it.  More kids in program.  More kids to choose from.  Higher percentage of POs (Pitcher Only) in your program.

That is a crap statement anyway because of the new pitch-count rules.  A guy who throws 110/120 on Friday, for example, can't pitch till Wednesday of the state tournament which could be an elimination game.  So you are not seeing him in the opening round.  Then if he pitches on Wednesday, and unless he throws less than 45, his tournament run is over, because the state title game is Friday. 
Back it up Terry:  Lets say the sub state game 3 is rained out as pushed that pitcher one day then there is a possibility he will not even throw a pitch in state tournament because of pitch rules.

They (whomever They is) say, "We are tired of seeing bad baseball at the state tournament"  Crap again.  You are going to see bad baseball now.  How is that?  
We are in a time where taxing kids' arms are a big deal.  No matter what level.  Most high schools, especially the lower classes (1A,2A), where your best arm (pitcher) is usually the SS, right?  Not always, but you see that a bunch.  Also, a lot of small schools have their catcher as their #2 or #3 or their weekend tournament guy which means come postseason time that catcher just became a starter.

What is your point, XBOX?  Region tournament time: The game one starter is your SS, pitches whatever you need to get that important game one win, then he has to go to SS for game 2,,3, and possibly game 4, making all those ground ball throws and such.  Fast forward to game 3, and there is your boy, Mr. Grinder, The Dish Captain, whose thrown the ball 1,000 times the past two games, and now you are asking him to pitch an elimination game to get to the sub state round.  120 is now on the table.  He is the best you have left, so go give us 7 innings or 120.  

Ok! Congrats!  You have now advanced and in a couple of days you are in a 2 of 3 series.  You are traveling, so you play games one and two on first day.  Anyone you use for 25 pitches are more can't throw the next day (game three) if you need.  So, that kid who pitched complete game in game one or whatever load is put on him, now has to play game two and game three (if nec.) in a prime position.  

We are adding more games in a shorter window on these kids.  So, are we protecting arms?  What about when that Class A regional gets to game three  or the sub state gets to game three?  What about those whom have played the extra regional and sub state games is now in state tournament?  "They" say we are tired of seeing bad baseball, but are you actually improving game play?  Are you sure you won't see even more bad baseball due to teams having kids being overworked in a short window of time and now having to pitch in state tournament?  

Class A/AA teams don't have the roster depth to pitch on a college level type of tournament/schedule.  Now now.......Some do, so I will not say all, but the majority don't have the depth to do what is asked to avoid "Bad Baseball....."  Not my words, but "They"  

Again, if I am Murfreesboro or Knoxville or outter Memphis (the big schools), I say bring it on.  (Just wanted to remind I am speaking for the small, mostly rural, non-open county zoned schools.  

Back to it:  So you have to travel to a sub state......say 2 1/2-3 hours to Chattanooga.  Ok, you staying in a hotel because you are playing two with possibility of game three the next day.  You have to put up your team ($$$$), you have to put up and pay for sit time for your bus driver ($$$$).  Uh oh........Game three day has a big storm rolling in and washed it out (Don't say it doesn't happen because I have lived turning the bus around on a sub state day and have to go back the next day), so now we have to scramble, get another night in hotel ($$$$), same for bus driver ($$$$), and I almost forgot........You have to feed your team multiple meals ($$$$$).  

You win and now have to pay hotel and meals and driver again for state tournament if you aren't close enough to commute.  Cha-Ching!!!  But hey, doesn't this fell like the Road to Omaha?

We haven't gotten into the educational side of this.  All of this during EOC testing, final exams, and GRADUATION.  
I get it, let them graduate at home plate on the road at some school who is hosting sub state.  I have seen it, it is awesome, and would love to experience it.  If you have never experienced graduation at smaller, mostly rural, community based schools, then you do not know that there is a systematic and cultural difference with graduation and a school of 1,800.  
Not disvaluing any graduation but the smaller schools take it as the ultimate event.  Not talking about the kids, but parents and administrators.  

Look, it is HS baseball.  If I have a stud arm and my regional opponent has a stud arm, then it is a good night for HS baseball.  If I lose the game, so be it.  Shake hands, wish them well, and lets move on.  If it is sub state and same thing; our best vs their best.  Take a shot and move on.

I love college baseball.  I am glued to my ESPN+ account during regionals and supers, but the small schools aren't built for that.  I really do not think we are improving game-play.

I have been in this for a very long time.  I have seen it all.  Been a part of some close games win/lose in regionals and sub state and state tournaments.  I have never one time said after a loss, "If we were in a three game series then we would win."  Wished my opponent well and told my kids that we gave it a run, and we moved on.  I really hope there is a load of schools in the A/AA that would fight it.   

I may be in the small minority.........who knows.  I would like to see a vote based on classifications, not as a whole.  Break it down per class and lets hear the voice.

[davidlimbaugh]

Baseball IS a Series Sport.  

Look around. Every state around us uses a 3-game series format.

https://www.ahsaa.com/Sports/Baseball/2022-State-Baseball-Playoff-Pairings

https://scorebooklive.com/mississippi/baseball/brackets/2022-mississippi-1a-baseball-championship

https://www.ghsa.net/2021-2022-ghsa-class-aa-state-baseball-championship-bracket

 

I have worked Spring Fling in Murfreesboro since it has been moved to Murfreesboro.

Look at the scores over the years, especially 'A' class.

Teams get to Spring Fling because they had an arm that won on Monday and Friday.

They get to bracket play in Spring Fling and once that one arm has thrown some of the scores get ugly. Slugfest.

Baseball is about the best TEAM getting there and winning, not the best pitcher. 

David LImbaugh

co-creator of the Powers-Limbaugh Post-season plan....

[BelmontRebel]

1 hour ago, davidlimbaugh said:

Baseball IS a Series Sport.  

Look around. Every state around us uses a 3-game series format.

https://www.ahsaa.com/Sports/Baseball/2022-State-Baseball-Playoff-Pairings

https://scorebooklive.com/mississippi/baseball/brackets/2022-mississippi-1a-baseball-championship

https://www.ghsa.net/2021-2022-ghsa-class-aa-state-baseball-championship-bracket

 

I have worked Spring Fling in Murfreesboro since it has been moved to Murfreesboro.

Look at the scores over the years, especially 'A' class.

Teams get to Spring Fling because they had an arm that won on Monday and Friday.

They get to bracket play in Spring Fling and once that one arm has thrown some of the scores get ugly. Slugfest.

Baseball is about the best TEAM getting there and winning, not the best pitcher. 

David LImbaugh

co-creator of the Powers-Limbaugh Post-season plan....

Did you check the KY format??

[XBOX]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:25 AM, davidlimbaugh said:

Baseball IS a Series Sport.  

Look around. Every state around us uses a 3-game series format.

https://www.ahsaa.com/Sports/Baseball/2022-State-Baseball-Playoff-Pairings

https://scorebooklive.com/mississippi/baseball/brackets/2022-mississippi-1a-baseball-championship

https://www.ghsa.net/2021-2022-ghsa-class-aa-state-baseball-championship-bracket

 

I have worked Spring Fling in Murfreesboro since it has been moved to Murfreesboro.

Look at the scores over the years, especially 'A' class.

Teams get to Spring Fling because they had an arm that won on Monday and Friday.

They get to bracket play in Spring Fling and once that one arm has thrown some of the scores get ugly. Slugfest.

Baseball is about the best TEAM getting there and winning, not the best pitcher. 

David LImbaugh

co-creator of the Powers-Limbaugh Post-season plan....

The Riverdale Power(s) Pool

That isn't going to change.  Why do you think it is going to change by adding games on thin teams and pitching staffs?  With pitch counts and rest days, the slugfests are still going to happen.  

It is a 5-6 tournament in 4 days.  Just who do you think won't run out of pitching and turn into a slugfest?
 

Look, I will say it again...............3A-4A I would support.

But don't sit down here and try to tell me that because you have worked the state tournament since it came to Murfreesboro, and you spectate from your awesome seat, that you know what is best for us.  Respect you, but you need to stay in your lane on this one.  You don't live the inside working of a small school program.  And for some reason you think because you force a "series" and added games on already stressed pitching (because they have to catch, play shortstop, etc.)  is going to dramatically increase play and avoid "slugfests" at the state tournament?  

#When did Limbaugh/Powers start speaking for the Small Schools?

 

[rocketpride70]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:46 PM, XBOX said:

Game three is at the same location as games 1 & 2.  There is no traveling to the lower seed for game 3 

Major issues with this format.  "They (whomever they is) wants to see the best teams in state tournament, not the best arm."   The following is from a small school (Class A/AA) opinion.  Note: If I am a large school (Class AAA/AAAA), I would be for it.  More kids in program.  More kids to choose from.  Higher percentage of POs (Pitcher Only) in your program.

That is a crap statement anyway because of the new pitch-count rules.  A guy who throws 110/120 on Friday, for example, can't pitch till Wednesday of the state tournament which could be an elimination game.  So you are not seeing him in the opening round.  Then if he pitches on Wednesday, and unless he throws less than 45, his tournament run is over, because the state title game is Friday. 
Back it up Terry:  Lets say the sub state game 3 is rained out as pushed that pitcher one day then there is a possibility he will not even throw a pitch in state tournament because of pitch rules.

They (whomever They is) say, "We are tired of seeing bad baseball at the state tournament"  Crap again.  You are going to see bad baseball now.  How is that?  
We are in a time where taxing kids' arms are a big deal.  No matter what level.  Most high schools, especially the lower classes (1A,2A), where your best arm (pitcher) is usually the SS, right?  Not always, but you see that a bunch.  Also, a lot of small schools have their catcher as their #2 or #3 or their weekend tournament guy which means come postseason time that catcher just became a starter.

What is your point, XBOX?  Region tournament time: The game one starter is your SS, pitches whatever you need to get that important game one win, then he has to go to SS for game 2,,3, and possibly game 4, making all those ground ball throws and such.  Fast forward to game 3, and there is your boy, Mr. Grinder, The Dish Captain, whose thrown the ball 1,000 times the past two games, and now you are asking him to pitch an elimination game to get to the sub state round.  120 is now on the table.  He is the best you have left, so go give us 7 innings or 120.  

Ok! Congrats!  You have now advanced and in a couple of days you are in a 2 of 3 series.  You are traveling, so you play games one and two on first day.  Anyone you use for 25 pitches are more can't throw the next day (game three) if you need.  So, that kid who pitched complete game in game one or whatever load is put on him, now has to play game two and game three (if nec.) in a prime position.  

We are adding more games in a shorter window on these kids.  So, are we protecting arms?  What about when that Class A regional gets to game three  or the sub state gets to game three?  What about those whom have played the extra regional and sub state games is now in state tournament?  "They" say we are tired of seeing bad baseball, but are you actually improving game play?  Are you sure you won't see even more bad baseball due to teams having kids being overworked in a short window of time and now having to pitch in state tournament?  

Class A/AA teams don't have the roster depth to pitch on a college level type of tournament/schedule.  Now now.......Some do, so I will not say all, but the majority don't have the depth to do what is asked to avoid "Bad Baseball....."  Not my words, but "They"  

Again, if I am Murfreesboro or Knoxville or outter Memphis (the big schools), I say bring it on.  (Just wanted to remind I am speaking for the small, mostly rural, non-open county zoned schools.  

Back to it:  So you have to travel to a sub state......say 2 1/2-3 hours to Chattanooga.  Ok, you staying in a hotel because you are playing two with possibility of game three the next day.  You have to put up your team ($$$$), you have to put up and pay for sit time for your bus driver ($$$$).  Uh oh........Game three day has a big storm rolling in and washed it out (Don't say it doesn't happen because I have lived turning the bus around on a sub state day and have to go back the next day), so now we have to scramble, get another night in hotel ($$$$), same for bus driver ($$$$), and I almost forgot........You have to feed your team multiple meals ($$$$$).  

You win and now have to pay hotel and meals and driver again for state tournament if you aren't close enough to commute.  Cha-Ching!!!  But hey, doesn't this fell like the Road to Omaha?

We haven't gotten into the educational side of this.  All of this during EOC testing, final exams, and GRADUATION.  
I get it, let them graduate at home plate on the road at some school who is hosting sub state.  I have seen it, it is awesome, and would love to experience it.  If you have never experienced graduation at smaller, mostly rural, community based schools, then you do not know that there is a systematic and cultural difference with graduation and a school of 1,800.  
Not disvaluing any graduation but the smaller schools take it as the ultimate event.  Not talking about the kids, but parents and administrators.  

Look, it is HS baseball.  If I have a stud arm and my regional opponent has a stud arm, then it is a good night for HS baseball.  If I lose the game, so be it.  Shake hands, wish them well, and lets move on.  If it is sub state and same thing; our best vs their best.  Take a shot and move on.

I love college baseball.  I am glued to my ESPN+ account during regionals and supers, but the small schools aren't built for that.  I really do not think we are improving game-play.

I have been in this for a very long time.  I have seen it all.  Been a part of some close games win/lose in regionals and sub state and state tournaments.  I have never one time said after a loss, "If we were in a three game series then we would win."  Wished my opponent well and told my kids that we gave it a run, and we moved on.  I really hope there is a load of schools in the A/AA that would fight it.   

I may be in the small minority.........who knows.  I would like to see a vote based on classifications, not as a whole.  Break it down per class and lets hear the voice.

man, I don't know who you are, but you absolutely nailed this post.

[davidlimbaugh]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:53 AM, BelmontRebel said:

Did you check the KY format??

https://khsaa.org/sports-activities-events/spring/baseball/  seems to be having problems.  Getting "502 Bad Gateway"

[davidlimbaugh]

"But don't sit down here and try to tell me that because you have worked the state tournament since it came to Murfreesboro, and you spectate from your awesome seat, that you know what is best for us. "   - XBOX

"And for some reason you think because you force a "series" and added games on already stressed pitching (because they have to catch, play shortstop, etc.)  is going to dramatically increase play and avoid "slugfests" at the state tournament?" - XBOX

Old Format after District Tournament:

Monday, Wednesday, Friday - Spring Fling

Throw 1,2,1

New Format

Friday 

1vs2 and 2vs1  #1 vs #1 pitchers

Saturday

L1 vs L2   #2 vs #2 pitchers

W1 vs W2  #2 vs #2 pitchers - Winner hosts Substate

WG3 vs LG4 #3 vs #3 pitchers - Winner travels to Substate

Only difference is #2s are in have-to-win games instead of a game that decides coke sales or buying gas for Friday.

#3s come into play if needed.

Substate - 2 out of 3.  #3 may not be needed?

So one more starting pitcher needed if you lose a game either weekend.

And what this DOES solve is teams that have one (1) good pitcher that in the old days won on Monday and Friday with that one pitcher and then get to the Boro and run out of pitching.  How do I know that? I have seen it in action in 1A baseball since 2006.

Since Spring Fling Came to Murfreesboro - Some 1A scores

2006:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20050401

10-0

16-6

17-7

12-2

12-0

2007:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20060401

11-0

14-3

11-1

10-0

11-1

19-1

12-3

15-1

26-0

13-2

19-6

13-3

2008:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20070401

9-0

11-2

16-10

15-8

10-4

2009:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20080401

17-1

13-3

10-2

12-7

11-0

14-3

13-2

20-1

15-6

13-8

18-4

2010:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20090401

16-3

13-0

16-6

10-0

2011:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20100401

12-2

11-8

12-3

16-6

15-2

9-0

12-6

23-4

2012:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20110401

11-3

11-1

10-3

13-3

11-3

8-1

2013:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20120401

18-2

13-5

12-9

18-1

12-1

2014:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20130401

11-1

13-5

2015:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20140401

11-2

11-0

16-4

2016:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20150401

11-1

11-2

13-5

12-7

2017:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20160401

16-1

11-6

10-2

11-1

2018:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20170401

13-1

16-0

10-2

13-1

2019:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20180401

10-2

10-1

12-8

13-6

No 2020

2021:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20200401

10-0

10-0

11-1

15-5

2022:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20210401

11-0

13-0

10-1

11-1

A team will need 3 good starting pitchers instead of depending on 1 great pitcher,

People that argue for the old way tend to be the ones that just want to get to the state instead of the ones wanting to win a state title.

Baseball is a true TEAM sport. Pitching is what makes it different from softball or football that have 1 pitcher or 1 quarterback.

Edited April 23, 2023 by davidlimbaugh
Typo