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2 hours ago, cbg said:

My thoughts are part personal and part just an old mans common sense.  As a former public school athlete I was never intimidated by wrestling against private or parochial school kids and to be honest I only ever lost one wrestling match to a private school kid and he was better than me.  Wrestling, swimming, track & field, golf, tennis, etc… are all individual sports and therefore should only crown one champion.  Wrestling in particular is a sport that lends itself more to kids from “Blue Collar” families and kids that are raised on a farm and know the value of hard work which in and of itself are typically public school athletes .  Yes, some of the private schools have better coaches and better facilities but so do some of the public schools.  Life is never going to be completely fair and the sooner that people realize that fact and move forward the better off everyone will be.  Shinny new facilities and uniforms do not win state championships!  Wrestling like most things is a people and relationship business and those individuals that work the hardest are normally the ones that are rewarded at the end of the season.  The public schools across the nation have done little to help themselves and continue to water down both academics and athletics by passing legislation that keeps them from competing against various school types across the country.  Much like when I graduated from a public high school I was forced to compete against private school kids for admission to colleges and jobs with private school graduates.  Competition makes everyone better but most people want to spend their time focusing on fairness instead of out working the competition.  

A lot truth there CBG, though I may differ with you on the 1 state champ on 1 side of my brain. What year did you matriculate HS?

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I see your point but disagree on portions of it. 

I think we all agree that hard work is needed. But to win at a high level takes more than that. It's doing the right hard work.   Good coaching matters, tremendously in wrestling.  So does your room & how competitive it is.  Throw an average kid with a tremendous work ethic into a room full of hammers and great coaches for a couple years and you've got a hammer. 

Same kid at a mid tier public school with poor coaching and scrubs for practice partners and regardless of how hard he works,  he won't be as good as the kids in the first scenario.  

Now,  I agree life isn't fair.  Seen my share of excrement in 25+ years in the military. Doesn't mean we shouldn't give like opportunities to kids though. The 2 above scenarios are very real, and very different.  Anyone that goes through 4 or 5 seasons of wrestling at any level has setbacks and learns things aren't fair, even without having the deck stacked against them.  There's enough stuff happens in a season that they learn that lesson pretty quick.  

If you're willing to admit that schools should be split between private/public or big/small at the team level then you are already acknowledging advantages exist with private/big/small. Those advantages extend to the individual side as well,  even if to a lesser degree. You can go too far with it though.  Look at Virgina or Georgia,  yikes.  

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6 hours ago, cbg said:

My thoughts are part personal and part just an old mans common sense.  As a former public school athlete I was never intimidated by wrestling against private or parochial school kids and to be honest I only ever lost one wrestling match to a private school kid and he was better than me.  Wrestling, swimming, track & field, golf, tennis, etc… are all individual sports and therefore should only crown one champion.  Wrestling in particular is a sport that lends itself more to kids from “Blue Collar” families and kids that are raised on a farm and know the value of hard work which in and of itself are typically public school athletes .  Yes, some of the private schools have better coaches and better facilities but so do some of the public schools.  Life is never going to be completely fair and the sooner that people realize that fact and move forward the better off everyone will be.  Shinny new facilities and uniforms do not win state championships!  Wrestling like most things is a people and relationship business and those individuals that work the hardest are normally the ones that are rewarded at the end of the season.  The public schools across the nation have done little to help themselves and continue to water down both academics and athletics by passing legislation that keeps them from competing against various school types across the country.  Much like when I graduated from a public high school I was forced to compete against private school kids for admission to colleges and jobs with private school graduates.  Competition makes everyone better but most people want to spend their time focusing on fairness instead of out working the competition.  

Very well said sir

 

Sid Mason 

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18 hours ago, TotallynotLEO said:

I see your point but disagree on portions of it. 

I think we all agree that hard work is needed. But to win at a high level takes more than that. It's doing the right hard work.   Good coaching matters, tremendously in wrestling.  So does your room & how competitive it is.  Throw an average kid with a tremendous work ethic into a room full of hammers and great coaches for a couple years and you've got a hammer. 

Same kid at a mid tier public school with poor coaching and scrubs for practice partners and regardless of how hard he works,  he won't be as good as the kids in the first scenario.  

Now,  I agree life isn't fair.  Seen my share of excrement in 25+ years in the military. Doesn't mean we shouldn't give like opportunities to kids though. The 2 above scenarios are very real, and very different.  Anyone that goes through 4 or 5 seasons of wrestling at any level has setbacks and learns things aren't fair, even without having the deck stacked against them.  There's enough stuff happens in a season that they learn that lesson pretty quick.  

If you're willing to admit that schools should be split between private/public or big/small at the team level then you are already acknowledging advantages exist with private/big/small. Those advantages extend to the individual side as well,  even if to a lesser degree. You can go too far with it though.  Look at Virgina or Georgia,  yikes.  

I think you raise a great point with the two scenarios here @TotallynotLEO. It's like the old saying, "Money doesn't always buy happiness, but it sure does help!" LOL. 

All great points by @cbg as well. But I do think that saying also applies to wrestling. Money, facilities, and good coaches don't always translate to state titles, but man they sure do help as LEO points out in his example. 

No, it won't ever be a completely even playing field, but I do think the divisions are a good thing. I am personally a fan of the 3 current divisions, but I could get behind the idea of there being just two (public and private) the way it used to be v. one single division. The D1 (A) division has been so much fun to follow since its inception. I put this in a post a few months ago, but in small school, you have seen 7 different teams (Hixson, Pigeon Forge, Gibbs, Fairview, Signal, Greeneville, and Halls) win state titles since 2014. Soddy is positioned to make it 8 in the past 10 years. 

In D2, CBHS is the only team to have won a state title other than Baylor and Father Ryan in the past 10 years. In D1 (AA), only Cleveland and Bradley have won titles in the past 10 years.

I am curious, is there a grid for TN that shows participation rise/decline like the one you shared from CA @mat73557? That would be interesting!

Thanks all for your insights! 

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Paducah-Tillman and Union county in Kentucky are usually 1& 2 in their state. Smaller schools with great programs.  Never seen PT facilities but have seen Union….nothing exciting.  Really impressed with Union being a rural school in a 1 division state, and always in the mix.  I tend to agree with cbg on this one, but can understand the other points of view.

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