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SquatchU
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"This new baseball format makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

This rain is now going to force teams to change their entire strategy for region/sectionals because some yahoos who don’t coach think they are smarter than everyone else.

Did you ever think about rain? Or smaller schools who don’t have resources as other schools?

The Region window needs to start sooner. If the TSSAA would have allowed schools to play Wednesday or Thursday given the forecast for yesterday and today we wouldn’t be in these predicaments.

But I am sure that one school who pushed this so much enjoys it because they got their nice shiny turf field so it doesn’t affect them. "

 

I started pushing this in 2001  22 years ago - well before anyone had any turf.

Tennessee is a big state - there is always a chance of rain somewhere in the state during the month of  May.

I pushed this for 22 years because I was tired of watching teams get to Spring Fling with 1 big arm and then when he isn't on the mound the games get ugly.

Examples just in 'A'?

 

Old Format after District Tournament:

Monday, Wednesday, Friday - Spring Fling

Throw 1,2,1

New Format

Friday 

1vs2 and 2vs1  #1 vs #1 pitchers

Saturday

L1 vs L2   #2 vs #2 pitchers

W1 vs W2  #2 vs #2 pitchers - Winner hosts Substate

WG3 vs LG4 #3 vs #3 pitchers - Winner travels to Substate

Only difference is #2s are in have-to-win games instead of a game that decides coke sales or buying gas for Friday.

#3s come into play if needed.

Substate - 2 out of 3.  #3 may not be needed?

So one more starting pitcher needed if you lose a game either weekend.

And what this DOES solve is teams that have one (1) good pitcher that in the old days won on Monday and Friday with that one pitcher and then get to the Boro and run out of pitching.  How do I know that? I have seen it in action in 1A baseball since 2006.

Since Spring Fling Came to Murfreesboro - Some 1A scores

2006:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20050401

10-0

16-6

17-7

12-2

12-0

2007:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20060401

11-0

14-3

11-1

10-0

11-1

19-1

12-3

15-1

26-0

13-2

19-6

13-3

2008:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20070401

9-0

11-2

16-10

15-8

10-4

2009:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20080401

17-1

13-3

10-2

12-7

11-0

14-3

13-2

20-1

15-6

13-8

18-4

2010:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20090401

16-3

13-0

16-6

10-0

2011:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20100401

12-2

11-8

12-3

16-6

15-2

9-0

12-6

23-4

2012:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20110401

11-3

11-1

10-3

13-3

11-3

8-1

2013:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20120401

18-2

13-5

12-9

18-1

12-1

2014:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20130401

11-1

13-5

2015:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20140401

11-2

11-0

16-4

2016:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20150401

11-1

11-2

13-5

12-7

2017:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20160401

16-1

11-6

10-2

11-1

2018:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20170401

13-1

16-0

10-2

13-1

2019:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20180401

10-2

10-1

12-8

13-6

No 2020

2021:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20200401

10-0

10-0

11-1

15-5

2022:

https://tssaasports.com/event/bracket.cfm?id=20210401

11-0

13-0

10-1

11-1

 

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"What good would that do?  The window to finish would just be pushed up earlier too.  Everyone will be ready for Sectionals on Wednesday."

Look at Alabama's baseball calendar that hasn't changed since I was a kid there in the 1960s and 70s.

 

https://scorebooklive.com/alabama/baseball/brackets/4292

If you do not finish 1st or 2nd in you Area, your last game is on April 15 (1A thru 6A) or April 22 (7A)

No district tournament, Finish 1 or 2 or call it a year.

Your first game is February 16. Two months. Same at Tennessee for regular season and district tournament.

https://www.ahsaa.com/Portals/0/Publications/2022-2023/93810 Baseball.pdf?ver=6nXEeDFUv2IXpVGY0SFnJA%3d%3d&timestamp=1659038894367

Look at Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi.

https://www.ghsa.net/2021-2022-ghsa-class-aa-state-baseball-championship-bracket

https://khsaa.org/sports-activities-events/spring/baseball/

https://scorebooklive.com/mississippi/baseball/brackets/2022-mississippi-1a-baseball-championship

Baseball is NOT softball, football or basketball.  

Softball can throw same pitcher. Football has the same QB. Basketball has the same point guard.

Baseball is NOT a 1 and done sport. It is about TEAM, including a pitching STAFF. 

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On 5/14/2023 at 8:22 PM, davidlimbaugh said:

We need to get TSSAA to start season a week earlier....

Not going to happen!  That is basketball time.  Plus, you aren't thinking of the small schools again: 16-20 kids on roster and 6-7, or more, play basketball.  Now what?  We aren't in a situation where we have 45 in program and 40 are baseball only players.  Tough to get the basketball players ready for the current calendar and you suggest moving the baseball start up?  You really need to step off that reservation.  Finally, I bet you are still going to see lopsided scores at the "A" tournament. Day 3 and people are still out of pitching.  The "PowersBaugh" format may shake up who gets there, but it won't change what goes down there.  Also, you said baseball isn't softball.  You said it is a series sport.  So why is the NCAA format the same in baseball and softball?  Double Elimination regionals and 2-3 supers.  

Word on the street is the TSSAA may go back to the old format.  Time will tell.  I'll send my invoices to the reservation for reimbursement.  ghost is right.  It is a financial strain on small schools that host and have to travel/hotel/food/fuel.  Maybe yall  can come up with some of that Boro NIL $$$

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16 hours ago, crazzyness said:

You've normally got some pretty darn good takes sir, but imma have to absolutely disagree on this particular one. 

In a perfect world, IMO, baseball would begin alittle later, and the TSSAA would finally concede that trying to have everything wrapped up before June is just too compressed, and have baseball continue after traditional school ending dates. I'd really like to see the regular season start a week or two later, wrap up the regular season the Thursday or Friday prior to Memorial Day, then come back and crank up the post season after the holiday weekend. 

 

I mean, in Tennessee, we play regular season football for 11 weeks, regular season basketball for 13 weeks (and a post season that lasts over a month,) and regular season baseball for (checks notes) 7 weeks?!??!? :shock: :shock: :shock:  

That's absolutely ludicrous, trying to get in a 30-40 game regular season PLUS the entirety of the post season in only 10 1/2 weeks. All the while, basketball gets nearly 19 weeks for a 25-30 game regular season and postseason. Baseball in this state is just entirely far too compressed. 

 

*Edit* 

After rereading what I typed, I suppose we could also help things out if we didn't drag basketball out for 4 1/2 months in this state.

 

GREAT POST! Big Swinger

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14 hours ago, Summit22 said:

They were allowed to play the region tournaments on Wednesday and Thursday of last week. Region 2A played all of their games on Wednesday and Thursday before the rain came in on Friday. I know both district 3A & 4A played their district tournaments a week early forcing all of the teams to cancel their regular season games scheduled for the first week of May, so their system seemed to work this year as they were able to beat the weather. 

But D2 used the final week of regular season to play postseason.  I tried to schedule a D2 school and they are on a 6-week schedule.  Makes no sense.  Basketball gets like 30 weeks to play.  The basketball postseason is like the NBA postseason.  Why have a 7 week season but..........I mean 6 weeks so we can have enough days to get district tournaments in?  Makes no sense.  Baseball should be pushed to later start and extend to first of June, but that won't happen.  Gotta get back to the cash cow chugging (Pigskin and jockstraps......I mean Girdles LOL)

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"So why is the NCAA format the same in baseball and softball?  Double Elimination regionals and 2-3 supers"

You mean just like the "Powers-Limbaugh" plan?  LOL!

Pitching in softball is even a bigger factor than baseball.  BUT 1 pitcher CAN pitch in multiple games.  NCAA Softball chooses to make it a series like any baseball or softball series should be.  They have another motivating factor. Money.

Baseball vs Basketball

Alabama has small 1A schools.

https://www.ahsaa.com/Portals/0/2020-22 Classification Final Published Numbers_1.pdf

Their basketball post-season begins February 14 for 1A

https://scorebooklive.com/alabama/basketball/brackets/3630

Ends on March 2nd for 1A

Baseball begins February 16 for everyone

https://www.ahsaa.com/Portals/0/Publications/2022-2023/93810 Baseball.pdf?ver=6nXEeDFUv2IXpVGY0SFnJA%3d%3d&timestamp=1659038894367

People can try to find or create reasons to not like this new format.

Other states have been doing this for years.

Even their small schools.

Baseball is a game of strategy.  Running game. Defensive alignment. Pitch calling. The most important thing that sets baseball apart from every other sport is the handling of a pitching STAFF.  Who to pitch when?

No More 1 big arm winning 2 games 4 days apart to get to Spring Fling.  No more meaningless games to decide who sells cokes and who buys gas.  No more having your season end 1-0 on a walk of HR when your ace and their ace went head to head so one team's #2 never steps on the mound and the other pitches in a game that does not have the season riding on it.  That is not baseball.

image.thumb.png.fea0f93c2b02f3bb5200ac54355515ca.png

 

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With pitch counts, it makes it a lot more difficult to just ride one arm to state.

The issue is the TSSAA is communicating different information to different parts of the state. Our coach called on Monday and was told you couldn’t move up the games until the day of yet East Tennessee did it. Now some schools are at a huge advantage due to lack of consistency in scheduling.

I vote go back to the old format. 

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28 minutes ago, SquatchU said:

With pitch counts, it makes it a lot more difficult to just ride one arm to state.

The issue is the TSSAA is communicating different information to different parts of the state. Our coach called on Monday and was told you couldn’t move up the games until the day of yet East Tennessee did it. Now some schools are at a huge advantage due to lack of consistency in scheduling.

I vote go back to the old format. 

The TBCA held a vote. Vast majority of coaches voted for this format.   It sounds like the TSSAA needs to get some kinks out.

Monday a great #1 will win with less than 105 pitches. 3 days rest is required.  Ready to go again Friday

https://cms-files.tssaa.org/documents/tssaa/2020-21/baseball/Baseball-Pitch-Count-Policy.pdf

Softball is looking at implementing a pitch count

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/is-it-time-for-pitch-counts-in-high-school-softball/

My hunch is when they do softball will want this format as well just in case their pitcher throws too many on Monday and can't pitch on Friday....   Seen softball pitchers throw 170 pitches in one game....  Amazing.....

 

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I actually do like the format, but I do think there needs to be several changes to how the TSSAA handles spring sports.

First, move the season back, and let the first day in April be "opening day." Several coaches have proposed this to the TSSAA, and unfortunately were shut down because they (the TSSAA) wanted all sports to be over while school is in session or close to  ending.

Moving the season back to April does wonders to everybody involved. One, it may actually help the safety to baseball pitchers because they'll be throwing in warmer temperatures. The TSSAA will be on board of something if it involves safety. That's it. Moving the season back and starting practice in place of our current opening day (second Monday in March) will help teams with practice. I don't think teams are practicing outside enough in February due to cold temperatures and potential wet field conditions from rain/snow. Moving the season back til April and extending the regular season through the middle/late May will help offensive numbers due to them hitting in warmer temperatures. Their stats will improve, it'll increase the chances of home runs. Who doesn't like that? 

Moving the season back will help families if they want to go out of town for Spring Break and not have to worry about vacation. It'll help the basketball players that are transitioning to baseball/softball so they can get a two week breather from playing in the state tournament to start of their baseball season.

Nobody thinks of baseball/softball in February/early March with temperatures in the 40's and a 10 MPH wind blowing from the north. I left our game on opening day of this year, and the temperature was 37-39 degrees. Today's high was in the low 80's. 

Would you rather play the first 3 weeks of the season with temperatures in the 40's, or play the last 3 weeks of the season with temperature's in the 70's-80's. It's common sense, but several coaches in the past wanted the TSSAA to delay the season to the first start of April, but denied. Again, the region tournament may be the first slate of games where students are playing without school being in session. So not everybody will play baseball when school is out.

Regarding to the postseason, I actually like the format, but there needs to be some more clarity for substates. There are several games across West Tennessee that'll likely have to move their start times up to the day because of graduation. A best two out of three (which I'm a fan of) is great, but it's not fun if parents/umpires are having to request off work to watch this game (or work for the umpires). I hope they can figure out how to adjust to this because start times at 12 and 3 on a work day is no fun. If they delay the season, then they can have a doubleheader on a Friday night, with game 3 on the following Saturday. The same situation they did last year with that Friday being the "sectional" game. And move the Spring Fling to a Wednesday-Saturday tournament and not Tuesday-Friday.

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38 minutes ago, TryNotToSuck said:

I actually do like the format, but I do think there needs to be several changes to how the TSSAA handles spring sports.

First, move the season back, and let the first day in April be "opening day." Several coaches have proposed this to the TSSAA, and unfortunately were shut down because they (the TSSAA) wanted all sports to be over while school is in session or close to  ending.

Moving the season back to April does wonders to everybody involved. One, it may actually help the safety to baseball pitchers because they'll be throwing in warmer temperatures. The TSSAA will be on board of something if it involves safety. That's it. Moving the season back and starting practice in place of our current opening day (second Monday in March) will help teams with practice. I don't think teams are practicing outside enough in February due to cold temperatures and potential wet field conditions from rain/snow. Moving the season back til April and extending the regular season through the middle/late May will help offensive numbers due to them hitting in warmer temperatures. Their stats will improve, it'll increase the chances of home runs. Who doesn't like that? 

Moving the season back will help families if they want to go out of town for Spring Break and not have to worry about vacation. It'll help the basketball players that are transitioning to baseball/softball so they can get a two week breather from playing in the state tournament to start of their baseball season.

Nobody thinks of baseball/softball in February/early March with temperatures in the 40's and a 10 MPH wind blowing from the north. I left our game on opening day of this year, and the temperature was 37-39 degrees. Today's high was in the low 80's. 

Would you rather play the first 3 weeks of the season with temperatures in the 40's, or play the last 3 weeks of the season with temperature's in the 70's-80's. It's common sense, but several coaches in the past wanted the TSSAA to delay the season to the first start of April, but denied. Again, the region tournament may be the first slate of games where students are playing without school being in session. So not everybody will play baseball when school is out.

Regarding to the postseason, I actually like the format, but there needs to be some more clarity for substates. There are several games across West Tennessee that'll likely have to move their start times up to the day because of graduation. A best two out of three (which I'm a fan of) is great, but it's not fun if parents/umpires are having to request off work to watch this game (or work for the umpires). I hope they can figure out how to adjust to this because start times at 12 and 3 on a work day is no fun. If they delay the season, then they can have a doubleheader on a Friday night, with game 3 on the following Saturday. The same situation they did last year with that Friday being the "sectional" game. And move the Spring Fling to a Wednesday-Saturday tournament and not Tuesday-Friday.

I like the new format, but I agree with what you said especially about the umpires. I am sure there will be a forum started sometime this weekend about how awful the umpiring was during their sectional, but what do you expect. Quality umpires are not going to take off of work to work a noon start midweek. Also, keep in mind most high school umpires have not worked many 3-man crews and your college umpires that are familiar with working 3-man have taken many days or half days of vacation from their jobs that it is not worth them taking any more vacation days for what they are getting compensated. Those early start times will be very interesting when it comes to the umpires.

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Format isn't perfect, but major step to where I'd like it.

One question - I thought sub-state, er, sectionals had to take place Friday/Saturday. I get part of it because of graduations, but I saw Rossview/Collierville will be over 3 days. I don't care for that. Play it in 2 days like everyone else. And if there are no graduations, it should have to be Friday/Saturday.

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19 hours ago, thunderbolts said:

I like the new format, but I agree with what you said especially about the umpires. I am sure there will be a forum started sometime this weekend about how awful the umpiring was during their sectional, but what do you expect. Quality umpires are not going to take off of work to work a noon start midweek. Also, keep in mind most high school umpires have not worked many 3-man crews and your college umpires that are familiar with working 3-man have taken many days or half days of vacation from their jobs that it is not worth them taking any more vacation days for what they are getting compensated. Those early start times will be very interesting when it comes to the umpires.

Something tells me you must be an umpire haha. No, I think umpires don't mind taking a day off of work to work two varsity games, but I think some of them would mind if it's more of a "wait and see" regarding to game 3 when that game is in the daytime. Therefore, they may have to take two days off work. 

It does appear that majority of the substate games are on Thursday/Friday. Some games have started today. However, I can see why teams would want to do a Thursday/Friday series because I believe the state tournament is a Tuesday-Friday tournament. If the spring fling were to be a Wednesday-Saturday tournament, then you'll see more teams play a Friday/Saturday substate series, and that should be more convenient to a lot of people when it comes to jobs.

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