justafanman22

Beech, in my opinion, is slightly stronger and definitely deeper than MJ. I think Smyrna comes out of their bracket. I don't think it will be as easy as they think. District tourneys are funny. i can honestly say that i played on a team with 4 district wins one year. We played a 3 seed Hendersonville in the "play-in" game (the format was different in the late 90s, only 4 teams made the district tourney and there were play-in games for those slots. only the district champion was guaranteed) and we won 9-0. That was pretty wacky.

vultor is right...but minor is up to vandy's #2 starter now. that kid is phenomenal. The kids in single A see some decent pitching. it is just not consistently as strong as AA or AAA. what i mean is that the pitching staffs at smaller schools don't have the depth as those at larger schools. there may be some good "aces" but #2s and #3s are not going to be as solid at smaller schools, typically. there are always exceptions. and anyone who drops around 17 bombs in a season is doing something right and should be commended for an excellent season. ps. if you haven't seen sonny pitch, it is well worth the price of admission + gas price from anywhere in the state. he has nights where he doesn't have his best stuff, like everyone, but he can dominate on any given night. when he pitched against hill from mt juliet and frey from beech....that is about as good as a high school pitching matchup can be. 9AAA was strong this year. loaded with pitching and experienced teams.

The one pitcher/player argument is so bogus. Take LaVergne's state championship away then, because they rode Matt Scott's arm to the title about 5 years ago. No one was complaining then. It takes one stud pitcher and a couple of decent starters to win in the tourneys. smyrna has some good arms left. Out of all sports baseball is the most individualized. in football, a qb can make a wr look good. in basketball a sweet pass can lead to a fast break dunk for a teammate. sonny is great. the best pitcher in the mid state, yes. but he does not pitch every game. and he doesn't bat 3 times per inning. so quit crying. if you don't like it, go brentwood academy and recruit some better players.

ps, brilliant catsbackr. I actually worked at UPS so I could get money to pay for Grad school. Now i have a graduate degree in biostatistics. I can make plenty of more money than i ever would working at UPS. Second, oh wise catsbackr...i didn't have a physical therapist until the fall semester of my freshman year in college. she then told me of the problem and that I had an excess of calcium in my system due to milk and supplements which I always believed to be good for me. It was at this point I decided to play for a year and see what happened and the result was a partially torn rotator cuff. I am not sure whether you and your infinite supply of knowledge of all things know this, but an abundance of calcium is a mediacal issue. deposits will build up in joints that are the most overworked and cause wear and tear on those muscles involved. So I am sorry that my career and story are bs to you. Say what you want. but anyone with any knowledge of baseball would understand the damage caused by the amount of pitches that some of these kids throw. maybe the reason you are not so sore is because you were a bull-pen catcher for the majority of your lifetime. they don't have to squat or throw as much.

Trust me, I don't have weak shoulder joints, and I have only had a desk job for 8 months. I was a UPS man for 4 years and that is one of the most physically demanding jobs there is. No matter what anyone says catching is not the same as pitching on your shoulder and elbow. The strain for a catcher is on their knees. So honestly you can't really talk about this because of your experience as a catcher, when their are tons of guys who used to pitch who have shoulder problems due to overwork. Weak shoulder joints is a laugher. The physical therapist actually told me that because I drank so much milk that my body was sending the calcium to the part of the body that was being worked the most...my shoulder. This led to deposits on my bones inside of my shoulder socket that were not normal and caused these spurs to scrape across my rotator cuff everytime I threw, tearing it little by little. According to the New England Journal of Medicine 42% of athletes who pitched in high school AND college experience shoulder fatigue later in life while 28% end their careers due to the shoulder pain. On top of that 17% require some sort of surgery to repair damages to their pitching arm. I guess we all have "weak shoulders". Whatever man. When a catcher in the big leagues comes out and has to have Tommy John surgery, I might listen to your opinions on the matter at that time. But until that happens you have no idea.

Great topic and great thoughts. Personally, I'm 26, almost 27. I pitched in high school...a lot. I pitched for one season of college and then had to "hang 'em up" due to calcium deposits inside my shoulder that were tearing my rotator cuff everytime I threw. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Getting married and raising a kid has been easier for me than dealing with having to give up the game I love. Don't get me wrong. Kids and family are way more important, but those things come naturally...just like baseball. And it was taken away from me. A few years ago a team won the state tournament with a solid pitcher whom they used constantly for 4 years. The kid had a 95-97 mph fastball and he was dominant. He went to college and after shoulder surgery became an obscure middle reliever. The facts don't lie. From a sheer sports medicine standpoint, the overhand throw causes 17 times the amount of strain and subsequent damages to the shoulder joint than pitching underhand (softball). It is an unnatural motion. DBMOM is so right when she says that most kids don't know how to throw properly. Most high school boys have very developed biceps and triceps...however they work very little on building strenth in their wrists and forerms. This puts strain on the elbow and causes tendonitis and can lead to the now famous "Tommy John" surgery. If you ask a kid if he wants to pitch, he is going to say "give me the ball. I am fine". But the coach has the responsibility to stand up and say "no". If a coach takes a kid out, it may really tick the kid off. But in the long run it is better off for the kid. Who knows what the kid might grow up to be? I don't hold a job that requires manual labor, but what if a kid wants to be a contractor? What if he goes into the construction business? He is going to suffer through that occupation. Many, many people have jobs that are physically demanding...UPS Men, for example. Don't assume that it is ok to put strain on a kid's shoulder because he won't use his arms in the future. That is just stupid. I can see both sides because i was the kid who asked for the ball in the last game he ever played in high School. I got beat and I still wouldn't trade it for the world. At the same time i threw a lot of games along the way that made no difference at all. Non district games, weak district games. From where I am now, I could have done without a few of those.

One last thing. Grizzard from Beech needs to be commended. That play in the gap in the 6th inning was UNBELIEVABLE. That kid was at full speed on the crack of the bat it seemed like. Sprinting into the gap he makes a play look almost routine, that most rightfielders wouldn't be even close enough to dive at. AWESOME play. Glad I got to see it.

Nothing really to add except to agree that Beech/Smyrna was the best district game I have seen all year. Great atmosphere for High School Baseball. 2nd point...on Hastings from LV. 2chea, no one is disagreeing with you. I was staring right at a gun the whole time. If you say he throws harder...that is fine. Different guns read differently. This gun said consistently 78-81. The same gun was reading Egerton at 86-88. If Hastings was really throwing upper 80s (maybe) then I guess Egerton was throwing mid 90s. I don't see it. Sorry. Some guns are slow. Some are fast. But each gun is consistent.

Exactly like I said. Game swings on an error. Smyrna scores an unearned run to win it. But Beech's only run was unearned. Also, I still stand by the "neither team is definitively better." Grey may be an equalizer but Smyrna got 10 legit hits off of Brady Frey. But Frey made a believer out of me for sure. He had average stuff at best last night...not his best stuff, and he still found a way to keep them in the game. Great situational pitching and he deserves a big hand for that effort. That kid is mentally tough and will be excellent for a long time. The funny thing is that everyone said Smyrna was weaker from top to bottom. The bottom of the line-up is where their runs came from. Beech is good...very good. Smyrna is good...very good. Both have great pitching. Both hit the ball. But don't penalize a team and call them average because they have a great pitcher. Many teams have won the state tournament with one solid pitcher. You just tip your cap to them because they are the best that year. Sonny has started 4 district games now and Smyrna is 3-1 in those games. Other pitchers have started 5 games and Smyrna is 5-0 in those district games. They can win even when Sonny is not pitching. That doesn't sound like a one player team to me.

This is the most boring thread ever!!!! Lots of insight. (hint of sarcasm) . This is the biggest game in district 9AAA this year. Beech may hit Grey this time. Smyrna may just as easily hit anybody that Beech can throw at them. It will all depend on what kind of stuff each pitcher has that night. If Sonny has his "A" game Beech may no get a hit. If whoever Beech throws has their "A" game, Smyrna may not get a hit. Anyone who comes out and says "Beech wins easy" or "Smyrna wins easy" is crazy. Neither team is definitvely better than the other team. That's the beauty of baseball. I am going to this game and I will sit there with absolutely no idea who is going to pull it out. This is a game where there is no favorite. In Las Vegas this would be classified as "pick 'em". I am expecting a low scoring game, and those can swing on the smallest things from a booted grounder, a failed bunt attempt, walks, anything. If anyone claims they can predict this game they're lying. This may be one of the best High School games in a long time....and I can't wait.

hastings from lavergne was throwing hard. still not anywhere close to egerton. the coach's gun closest to me was showing hastings around 78-81 pretty consistently. i did see his breaking ball. it went wild and to the back-stop about 6 times. he kept releasing it way too early. breaking balls are nice but if you can't get it anywhere near the plate you have no chance.

tennessee tech had scouts at thre smyrna-lavergne game also. egertons first start due to tendonitis. control was off early, but he settled in well. consistently around 86-87 by the gun closest to me. some higher and some lower as usual. hastings from lavergne was throwing pretty hard as well.

don't know about oakland, but it wasn't a top 3 pitcher. smyrna threw gallaher. smyrna has lavergne tonight...rivalry game.

smyrna and beech in a big showdown next wednesday. should be the game that decides the district.

Not that it is an option but i would take 1998 oakland...powerhouse and dominant. i remember being ecstatic that we were 2 runs up on them going into the 5th inning.......we lost by 3. Awesome team with exceptional talent and fundamentals. Best all around High School team I have seen in over 20 years

my bad, i was thinking of the mj game

Not sure what smyrna team you have watched whoolleyman...i have seen them about 4 times and they are carried by 1-7. their top of the line-up is solid. against beech and mj they were carried by the 3-5 hitters. #5 hitter, hogan, drove in both runs against mj, and one against beech. gray hits third. egerton hits 4th and has 7 homers. townes hit the go ahead homer aginst gallatin and he hits 6 or 7 in the line-up. they area balanced team and their pitching, top to bottom, is as strong as anyone else's in the district. will smyrna run the table...probably not. in fact i would say definitely not. but are beech and mj far superior. not right now, or at least they haven't shown it. and who exactly is going to give them these 3-4 losses. they have two games left with both wilson central and hendersonville. they have lavergne, and gallatin again. (might lose one of those) beech might beat them at smyrna. but i don't think mj has a shot bc if hill throws tonight against beech, mj is throwing their #2 against sonny. I don't see how you think sonny will get "ripped" considering he just no hit them and struck out 16. mj didn't even hit a ball out of the infield. 16 Ks, and 5 ground balls. I would really be surprised if mj came out and ripped sonny. he is beatable, by all means, any pitcher is. But i don't think there is a team in the district that is capable of "ripping" him.

mj has a tough decision as they have smyrna tomorrow night. my guess is hill throws tonight. they have a better opportunity to win tonight than on tuesday.

also, no good scorekeepr gives an error to a kid who is sprinting in the gap and the ball glances off of his glove. we are talking about routine plays that kids at smaller schools muff. the ones who are penalized if errors are factored in are the kids at solid programs in solid districts. they don't have the luxury of playing against a team with a RF that picks dandelions and dreams of the ice cream sandwiches in the cafeteria. it pads the stats of the kids playing in poor districts and that is wrong.

i agree with all of you except for rabble rouser. you can't honestly tell me that tim corbin, or rod delmonico, or steve peterson just wander up to high school fields to look for talent. you are lying through your teeth and you know NOTHING about scouting. Let me give you the rundown. A coach of a college calls a high school coach and says..."a booster of mine says you have a kid with some talent. what is your opinion and what are his stats?" . then the high school coach (or in some cases the summer coach) says " he has an BA of such and such. He has an OBP of such in such. He has x amount of homeruns. He pitches around 89-92 mph, etc." then college coach makes an attempt to see a game where he can watch that player for himself. the end. they have way more important things to do than to go to a random game and hope (slim chance) that there is a talented enough player there to help their program. if you think scouts just wander around to games and don't listen to the stats given to them by coaches, you are delusional. you ask any high school coach and they'll tell you the exact same thing. i hardly think that a player in this area of the country is swinging to "get off the island" as the cubans and dominicans. most kids here are playing for college and juco scouts...not MLB scouts. that is the dumbest argument i have heard in a long time.

kgsvols...love the post...you proved my point. classifications are totally different but OBP is the uniform statistic. you can't disprove that. i said outright that classifications are not the same, and somehow you disagreed and then stated my point. If errors are going to calculated into then fielder's choices must also be calculated. a kids on first and then you hit a ground ball to the SS they don't turn the double...should that help your OBP...no, because your team is in the exact same situation it was before you hit, only they have one more out, which is essentially the same as the batter making an out. when their are runners at first and third and 2 outs, last inning and the game is tied, say the runner on first takes second. no throw is made. does he get a steal...no. he gets a catcher's indiscretion in the official scorebook. why is that? easy, because he has done nothing to put his team in a better situation. the runner at third is the one that matters. i am all for the kids having a great experience in high school, but lets not puff their egos with statitistics. The rule states that OBP is hits, walks, or HBPs. and if you want to be technical, errors count against a batting average. a kid that leads off the game and gets to first on an error is still 0-1 for the game. those are the rules. maybe we shouldn't call balks. maybe there should be no batter's box. these are all just suggestions.

Sorry DBMom. I won't call any names but there is no legitimate or logical reason that errors should be calculated into OBP. The Rule Book quoted earlier specifically states this point. A walk is much more of an accomplishment than reaching on an error. Many walks are obtained by fouling off tough pitch after tough pitch and earning a walk. Some walks are intentional and shown as a sign of respect. "Taking one for the team" should be awarded. However, there are many small single A teams in the state with maybe one legitimate player and 8 guys who just want to get out of 5th and 6th periods occasionally. If you play one of those teams where the SS fields about 1 out of 3 grounders, why should the hitter benefit for his poor fielding. I am going to assume DB stands for Dobbyns Bennett. What if a kid on your team goes 1-5 on the day in a district game and hits two fly balls and grounds out to the SS and strikes out. His OBP is .200 . A kid at Unknown Technical Christian School plays a district game and does the exact same thing, only an outfielder drops one fly ball, and the ball goes right through the SS's legs because he didn't "lower the drawbridge". Do you honestly think his OBP for the day should be .600 when he did nothing more than the other kid? Be honest..... OBP should be uniform across the board. By eliminating errors from the calculation you are promoting a standard that is comparable for all levels of players. The main problem is that most college coaches and scouts don't just happen to wander up to a game and notice a great player. They get stats from coaches and umpires. Then they go out and take a look at a prospect. OBP is a huge stat for prospects because a kid won't have as many homers if he gets intentionally walked twice a game. I can say with all certainty that College coaches look at OBP. Some stats can be easily inflated. I know a guy who hit 24 homeruns his senior year and got a hefty scholarship to Tennessee Tech. After one season he quit because the coach told him his power wasn't there. How did he hit 24 homers in a year?...a 260 foot Left field line. Since field dimensions are different, homers is not a good stat to determine how good a player is. Batting Average is a decent stat but some kids face tougher pitching. OBP is the best stat that exists in comparing high school athletes because by eliminating errors from the equation, everyone is judged on a level playing field, despite the level of competition they face day in and day out.

There is a stat that takes into account HBP and BB and it has been mentioned already.....On Base Percentage. The other thing that bothers me is that most people don't understand that statistically they do help your batting average by limiting plate appearances. If a player gets up to bat 5 times in a game, say he goes he gets a single, makes 2 outs, and walks twice. He is considered as going 1-3 and not 1-5. The statistics are there because no one typically bats over .500 . it has happened but it is rare in high school. Let's assume a hitter has an average of .333 . If the player walks or is HBP, he realistically had about a 1 in 3 odds of getting a hit that plate appearence, but instead he walked. So more often than not when a player walks, he statistically increases his average. The stats go like this..... say the guy has 99 total at bats and 33 hits and he comes to the plate. If he walks, he stays at .333. If he makes an out he drops to .330. If he gets a hit he raises his average to .340 . the odds are only 1 in 3 that he raises his average (given that he does not walk). there is a 2 in 3 chance that he lowers his average. meaning that by walking he did statistically help his average. Now that I am done with the math lesson...I am getting really fed up with these kids not taking walks. The other night I watched a lead-off hitter throw his bat in disgust after he walked. He was not walked intentionally. Does he not realize that he helped his team by getting on base? Is that not the job of the lead-off hitter? It made me so mad I wanted to go out there and tell him "you are not bigger than the game, or your team". If you are parents and you read this board, I hope you encourage your kids to take walks, be a team player, and put themselves, their personal stats and their pride second. I have coached for a long time and I would give anything for players who play the game right. Unfortunately those players are getting harder and harder to find.

it depends on your coaching philosophy on which pitcher to throw. Gray is your horse...and he has a brilliant future. why put too many innings on his shoulder when you know you will need to lean on him in the post-season. this is a 16 year old kid. any high school coach with a kid's best interest at heart will not throw him again on 3 days rest...unless its postseason and the kid says "give me the ball...now!!" there is no point in pitching sonny against hendersonville, gallatin, or wilson central. let him throw some bullpen sessions or maybe 1-2 innings to close out against h'ville. i would personally have thrown rhodes today, edwards on friday and come back with rhodes on monday. now that the game has been postponed, that would put rhodes on 3 days rest if he throws tomorrow and monday. cancelled games really screw up coaching. vetter's hand may be forced a little.

i retract my previous statement. gallatin is stronger than h'ville right now. throw rhodes, vetter!! for the love of God...throw rhodes!!