vb71

Why the constant bumping? Seems to be no interest.

I'll answer your comment with a comment and even go back further. 71, you came on this site in Oct 77. Why did you even bother? You've posted 80 times in 4 years mostly around Tournament time and a little before. This has nothing to do with the format but all of the format changes that were trying to be implemented happen the couple of years before that. Were you involved? Why, when CoachT started this site in 1990's, put his money and time into a hobby he says, for promotion, were you involved? His story is well documented and he did it for a reason. I agree that you may have quietly done your thing but many others did the same thing, some for selfish motives and some just because they loved it. It was a good sport but not going anywhere and after all girls basketball was the thing along with AAU. Sorry Volleyball was good but no structure. CT did one thing along with the computer, it gave the sport structure and visability along with a way to provide quick information, whether you like it or not. After all, how many newspapers knew that scores duing that time and earlier, even existed. Not many and if it was there, it was a blurb that was hard to read. My posts, uninteresting?? Score detail does get that way but color along with it does not. And opinion only brings out those who have a contrary opinion, not necessarily the same opinion. Why would you want that any way? Coacht found a need and generated a vehicle and in Volleyball, found Pageman, a stats guy who had some newspaper background and a personality. He traveled the State, and loved the game. Not sure in the early 2000's where you were but not on the State scene. It was obviosu to PM that the sport had no definite structure and everyone just did their own thing. One side of the State knew nothing about the other side or their players, coachs and very little about their fans. Evolving from this came an expanded Coacht with over 90000 members, partisons, players and fans. I take it you are not a fan of CT. In some way it took away some of your space. CT is still trying to find its difinitive nature and some of us have taken it where its not as it has been started and have gotten into the virtual area of untouchable space which is not, in times past, not been the norm.

Its just like changing the way the format used to be, and why did we try this. Just like today politically, change does not mean success. Smetimes it means destructive, costly failure. Coacht did and has put visibility on all of those things because with help of fans nothing is sacred.

I say all of this to say all of this could have been done and the changes made in the game without a vehicle like Coacht is living in the past. Since 2007 when you came aboard, it hasn't been of much inbterest to you. You did try to get aboard. And that is what is happening here with this subject. Somebody says there is a problem and its being discussed. From a readers point of view, I sensed an overkill from those who have just worked hard in Murphy Center to put on. arguably, the best performance has had in a STate Championship. They didn't select the format. They just made it look the best they could. And I would say, Chill. Somebody is going to analyze this with what has been said and nake it better. And as far as Coacht and his part, you have been an important part and after all its just information, if you don't like it turn it off. Or participate to make it better. And to my friemd Clubisforus. This is a High School Volleyball Site as I have been told and if it changes, someone will say its been changed. Thats way beyond my pay grade.

I enjoy coacht very much. I do have a problem when one person endlessly posts and then questions other posts which receive comments. I think coacht is very worthwhile, just do not like someone whose opinion seems to be the only one that matters. And trust me, do not try to talk about the game as though you really understand it. Some of us have spent most of our lives loving the game and do not appreciate someone constantly giving their opinion without accepting other's opinion. Look at the amount of posts you have placed on here and how many are never responded to. Should tell you something.

71, an opinion, like yours. Saw it visabily. Can recount what has happened?

I do not even understand what you are talking about. Please clarify.

That certainly is a good point if it were total true but no one has been kept from introducing opinions except if the post got away from what this site was originally set up to be, High School Volleyball. It did veer away from that quite a few times and a number of times things were mentioned that sat there for a while with no response and rather than let the died subject or subjects dominate the site, we just moved on to something else. In no way was Coacht or Play4Keeps involved with that, it was a way I thought to keep the site more interesting. There was no doubt, in my mind, that there was a shortage of viewpoints as sometimes it was forgotten the demographics of who mostly were looking in to the sit. And its just like why I am having to answer this, it really has nothing to do with the topic and could take us away from important issues and the history of and how we got to the format to start with. It was because, my opinion, baack during that time, a lot of fansw were searching for ways to get the sport publicized. Interest had beeen waning and the game was not widely understood. Some thought a seearch for aq better format was the answer and others thought or many other things like the times the tournaments were held was a problem. There was a genuine effort, IMO, by the TSSAA to acknowledge and help the situation and this is why so many formats were tried. It may have looked disorganized but is seemed to me a genuine effort.

Interest had been waning and the game was not widely understood? Volleyball began to explode in high school in the mid-nineties, way before coacht was here and before you were introduced to the game. Many were working to see that volleyball did grow and I do not see how you can say interest was "waning".

I'm not really sure why this discussion exists right now. This has happened. The Tournament is over, finished. What happened, the TSSAA, like it does everything else, ran all of this by the member schools and it was accepted so they did it. There was no complaint. It was agreed and is over. Now the subject has been brought up and for next year the TSSAA can present their thoughts again. The schools have a chance to redo in or recommend it but they need to do it right now. The issue of private schools should be the same way. But when its done, it should be done as part of the classification discussion.. and left alone until the next reclassification. The schools will vote to how they want it. But when ots done, its done. I like it the way it is because the other way gets things finshed to soon. The extra game at the end, I have no thoughts on. I that willts just an extra game and likely will increase costs. Schools decusion. Same as with private schools which I think is the wrong thing to do but if that is how it works would not oppose it. There will always be a large group of A class private schools. How its handled, its handled that way. no delay and the decision may be the same as it is now, an option. But it is a decision.

You say that you do not understand why this discussion is going on and a few sentences later you state that the issue needs to be addressed now. I do think, as clubonlyforus stated, you seem to be upset that you didn't start this thread. This is actually something interesting unlike 95% of your posts.

Similar to smdad, I've been to state a few times with 3 different formats: 1) pool play followed by 8 team bracket, 2) pool play followed by 4 team bracket, and 3) current "double" elimination bracket. I agree that using pools to knock it down to 4 teams is unfair since the pools can be unbalanced. Pools and 8 team bracket is probably the fairest, but it takes more games to finish it. The current double elimination bracket is a good compromise. It does seem to get it down to the two best teams. Not requiring the "if necessary" game in the finals is the only thing that seems unfair.

 

If you view the first two days just as a way to narrow it down to the two best teams, then leaving out the "if necessary" game doesn't sound that bad. Certainly it sounds fairer than a single elimination bracket without any kind of seeding.

Isn't this the way basketball has been run in the state forever? The teams are set based on the luck of the draw. If you get a bad draw you go home after one.To be the state champions means that you have to eventually beat every other team before you. It doesn't matter what game it is. I think the single elimination bracket is much better. If a team is good enough they really will not worry about seeding. Some are just happy to be there anyway and usually only a few reallly have a chance to win anyway.

In a match which is predicted to be one of the best in the State finals, Goodpasture will take on CAK who has been very persistant to get to the finals. We will be back with Game 1 in a few minutes.

Who is making these predictions where every game is the going to be one of the best? I was not aware that Vegas had predictions on these games.

ACTUALLY, third and 4th DO play in the loser's bracket with the winner then taking on whoever loses in the winner's bracket final. BACKATCHA

 

Crickets.

I guess we are on two different wave lengths. I do not know of any club coaches who have taken programs that had never had tradition in volleyball. The ones that coach now have stepped into a good situation. I originally meant that before club ball became the norm, many coaches would hire an assistant with more experience, usually from the club programs. This was before the 2000s in many cases. Volleyball started changing during the mid 90's and became a year around sport. Now it is often hard to distinguish the difference in club and high school coaches as they are so interwoven.

This is vb71, not Hargis. There are no club coaches running top programs now that I know of. There have been in the past. I would rather not name teams; however, I have been associated with the sport for 26 years. The fact that Williamson County, and Siegel, have become dominant areas for volleyball due to the formation of club programs and coaches can't be argued. I do not like the thought of being compensated for teaching kids a sport that I love; therefore I do not support clubs. I was taught the game by older players who still play, some being over 70 years old. Just because I don't like the expenses involved in club ball does not mean that it has not been effective. Siegel will be just fine with the new coaching staff. Too many players have had too many years of training for the program to fall off.

Sorry about that, the delete was not on my end. A lot of people can delete posts. It is surprising you got yours thru. Babe you started out with some creditability and now you have gone way past what you think you know.

Your facts are strickly bogus and don't make any difference. Just as it is all over the state, players do play where they want I would hope. Parents might have some preference. Since you are meddling in to how Coaches are selected, I would suggest you find someone in authority who can officially give you the information you want in any hires any place. You are knnowledgable and know who that might be. If they want to give it to you they will but the direction you are beginning to take is 180 degrees in the wrong direction and gets into privacy information, i.e., posts getting deleted. Your acusations are full of liable and its no ones business what students do or families. You are interfering with High School Business and families who's kids go to a High School and teachers who are hired to teach and coach. Most all coaches carry insurance which cover them up to a million dollars for slanderous accusations. I would recommend you back off of this. if you want to tangle with any of these club people, they will tangle with you I am sure. This is my last post on the matter.

I know of no volleyball coaches with a million dollar insurance policy that could be used to sue someone on an online chat forum. Can you imagine going to an attorney with the request to sue someone for slander over something like this? They would be laughed out of the building.

 

The use of club coaches for volleyball is nothing new. Many "assistant coaches" of the past have been club coaches who actually run the program because many coaches have not had the knowledge of the game. Siegel will be fine due to the extansive training the younger kids have had in club ball. I personally do not like the way club programs have become such a force in high school volleyball. Brentwood did not become a true powerhouse until the clubs became so dominant in Williamson County. The expense involved in club ball could be saved into the kid's college savings fund rather than hoping to get a volleyball scholarship that often never materializes.

Spandex does not serve a purpose as a uniform material. Men do not play in it at the high school, college, or professional levels and it is a much more powerful and aggressive game. A study was done a few years ago that contended that it prevented lactic-acid build up in the legs; however, it was later disproved in other studies. The AVP insisted that their women players wore two-piece swimsuits a few years ago in order to draw larger male audiences. Hmm. Just food for thought.

I'm not sure if your comment was made with sarcasm or not. For the past two years I've volunteered to help any kids at SportsCom on Thursday nights fron 4:30 til 7 or so. The city has been great and they charge the standard $2 to get in. I get nothing but free admission to do this.

 

We have been running 25-30 kids, but with high school starting it will drop off during the season. We're trying to start a home school team. I have enough kids, it's just hard to find them games or scrimmages.

 

I'm not bashing club ball, it's a key part of volleyball. My two main concerns are:

1. Too many parents are under the impression that if their daughter plays club for 5 or so years her college will be paid for. It should be stressed to the kids that very few will actually receive scholarships. With the economy as it is, maybe money is better spent fully funding kid's college funds.

 

2. Eventually this will hurt our national teams. Very few parents are going to spend 2-4k a year to play club. This cuts down the percentage of athletes who play, therefore the players to choose from will be limited. If there is a great athlete out there who wants to play but can't afford club there should be other alternatives to keep them involved and not frustrated enough to quit. If they are behind at 14 years of age, they probably will get frustrated and find another sport.

Ok my last comments on this.

I'm sorry but you're not being vague or critical, you are whining!

 

The TSSAA only attempts to level the playing field for schools not for players.

The best get to play: period!

 

Brentwood HS had nothing to do with any club being formed; in fact I think only one player from Brentwood played for Impact in 2009 club season. (and I most assuredly have no dog in this fight)

 

As to the "high salaries" for club coaches, sorry, they get paid but it's not enough to live on; all do it for the love of the game and most for the young ladies they coach.

 

If this is about your daughter making the Page high school team, I would tell you the same thing that the dance team or the band or the cheerleaders or the football coaches tell those students... GET BETTER, no matter what it takes!!!

Last but certainly not least, the high school or club season in Middle Tennessee in no way comes close to the work required by college athletes... not even close.

 

Please get the facts straight. There are plenty of posters with the knowledge and credibility to help you on this... good luck to your daughter. Peace

 

Please do not say club coaches do it for the love of the game; it's all about getting paid. Before Impact was here a few h.s. coaches started clubs and began to realize the moneymaking opportunity, Jay just marketed better and became the big dog. If these coaches wanted to promote the game all they have to do is volunteer, at the local rec. center, to give instruction. Every county I've talked to says they would love to have a program like this. If you don't have a rec. center take the kids to the local sand courts and run drills. Many parents seem to think there is a certain status that goes with their kids playing with such-and-such club. That's a shame and I blame clubs and high school coaches for promoting this. Having played around here for 20+ years I know for a fact that there are a lot of qualified people who would love to pass the game on. When we started we had to rely on the older players to teach us the game. They didn't charge us, now we need to give back. Many of you club coaches are friends of mine, but I have to say I'm disappointed in the direction that volleyball is headed.

I want P4K to answer this but can understand the misunderstanding I think. 18's is the difference. Club, i thought was to work on your game and likely be an all around player. If the coaching is there to do it, its provided.

While an 18 may have selected a position whats wrong with allowing others to work on other positions. I think I can

understand the misunderstanding iand it was in the beginning but thats why if the understanding is one way and is not followed thru, you can expect players to quit. P4K's position might be she was not in on the front end where the agreement was made but as you might guess she is on the back end where the parents, the coaches and some of the players are traveling without a full team and thats expensive. But the director did add three players to the team.

But the kicker is the post before when 18-2 didn't do as well in their tournament as they wanted and you'e heard the reason.

With all deference, and I may be in the minority, players who just think of themselves as front row or back row

are putting a lot of pressure on the other part of the team and likely are Not complete players. They are just players that take up space in a position and if they are off, might just as well be on the bench. For value to a volleyball team, learning all way around is valuable. Irregardless volleyball is a team game and for some reason, players sometimes try to stereotype their skills and not step up or not can step up if needed. If this is the way Volleyball works it's not a team game and the only sport thats that way. It's team, flexible, and if you don't want to do it, don't play it. Learn as much about all positions that you can. Just don't relegate a teammate just because she's great at the position to that position only. She may need some experience in other positions. Travel teams are not easy for many reasons but players who relegate themselves to one position and try nothing else Are likely cutting down their play time and likely having to travel not to have as much. Thats boring.

 

By 18 players should not be "learning" different positions. That should have been done way before 18. Club ball at that age is all about getting noticed by some recruiter. You wouldn't take some 6'3" middle and make her a DS at that age. If someone has played a position for years, and all of a sudden they need her to play some position she's never played before, or very little, that's not fair to her. Her parents paid the same as everyone else and I'm sure they're as frustrated as anyone. If a boy played summer AAU b-ball for 6-7 years as a point guard, and at 18 his coach tells him he has to play center,just when recruiters start paying attention, that would be ridiculous. With the money it costs to play club, parents should have some say in the matter.

Are the rules basic. I know the basic rules for baseball just growing up in life but never really knew the rules of vollyball. So i was wondering about that...

 

 

I would suggest learning a little about the game first. Go to your local rec. center and observe leagues. Volunteer to line judge. Some of the middle schools not sanctioned by the TSSAA are always short-handed. I would suggest starting there(yes, you get paid), and within a year or so you could ref lower level high school games. Not meaning to suggest anything, but you don't want to ref Brentwood v. Ravenwood until you have a tremendous grasp of the game. Good luck to you. BTW: The rule books are readily available.

Why Dog, I don't know what you are talking about. It's hard to know what you mean. You are just posting to be posting.This certainly not a drama thread. i would suggest that you take a deep breath, reread my post in the context it was posted and forget about reading in to it something that was not there. Seventy five per cent of your post expressed things not true but you have a computer, post away. I have mentioned no school, no recruiting and really don't wish you to read my posts and get all upset. It takes too much of your time and certainly is controversial and really means nothing. Now if you are doing it to be noticed............... But I am no longer going to give you a forum to misinterpret and misunderstand. DIVII schools are schools just like any other. Very creditable.

They just have a different name.

 

Joining CoachT plus =$24

 

Playing club ball = $800-$4000

 

Having someone who has 4,735 posts tell you you're posting just to be posting = PRICELESS

What does that have to do with this?

 

When YOU accuse me of being "misleading" by mentioning quitting or being kicked off and then ask what that has to do with this, that's unreal. If I mention the past you get all upset. And yet you're the first to talk about past championships and traditions. I (like many others) are through with responding to your biased drivel.

As one might expect this response, Coach Slaughter or the family have all the answers. They usually do and the rest are along for the ride. 71 ,being from Rutherford, likely knows more than the rest of us since there is very little secret there. But the Gay Family have been very good enthusiasts, great family supporters of VB and have lived it and slept it and have three girls playing. What is a little misleading is to throw in got kicked off or quit. Really don't know what that implication was and who it was aimed at and what difference it meant. Really meant nothing. Everyone just enjoys playing. Who all in the Tournament might watch is Kaycee Green. She is playing very good VB right now, likely the best of her life. She is uncannily accurate in everything she does. You likely have seen her play.

 

I guess I don't understand at this point in the season, what else is there besides quitting or being kicked off? I merely mentioned it because last year at this time the setter was kicked off, and the year before their right side was kicked off.

According to rumor, since you are at Siegel, why does the rumor think this is different? The Gay's have been a very respected VB family for some time and will be for some time more with two daughters likely on the team next year. By the time the Gays finish graduating these girls, they will have 11 great years of volleyball. Any comment on the matter should not be rumor and should come from the family and not on the internet by a third party. The daughters and mothers smiling faces have always been a high point of Siegels supporters.

 

Am not at Siegel as you state, have never been "at Siegel", heard it on a text,and asked a question. I have never said 1 negative thing about any of the girls and you seem to think I have. No wonder everyone is always mad at you on here.

Any truth to the rumor that Siegel's senior setter(Gay) left the team? If it's true that's three years in a row that an integral part of the team has been kicked off or quit during the season. I can see injuries but this is different.

Well guys I got off work a little early yesterday so I could make it to the Riverdale/Siegle match.

 

I am certainly glad I did.

 

I have got to say that i am so proud of all of the student athletes on the court. This is truly the best group of volleyball players Rutherford County has produced. With all due respect to Blackman, Smyrna, Oakland, Lavergne and all the smaller schools in the county.......Riverdale and Siegle are by far the best volleyball schools in the county.

 

It is obvious that these girls are playing USAV volleyball and are putting in the time required to be better volleyball players.

 

This match was extremely close and so well played by both sides.

 

Riverdale came out on fire in both Set 3 and 4 only to see Siegle climp back out of the hole and pull out both sets.

 

///////////////////

 

On a side note....there was a Siegle High School fan/parent who was being an absolute butt! (PG for coach-t)

 

He was intentionally trying to get the attention the official to tell him what to call. I was sitting in my seat andf9d....this guy was really being obnoxious. I really didn't get what he was so upset about. The official was really consistent and seemed to know what was going at every point of the match. The official had to tell coach Slaughter to tell him to simmer down. This really took away from my enjoyment, I was really getting a kick out of watching this guy further embarrass himself.

 

All in all....I was so impressed by both teams and the athletes on the court! Volleyball can only go up in Rutherford County....seeing the match yesterday...I truly believe it will

 

Brilliant comment.

 

Oakland beat Riverdale pretty easily a week ago, and oh yea, Blackman only made it to the state championship game two years in a row. Smyrna went to the sub-state last year. I think RHS made it to regions three or four years ago. Siegel is always solid with the club money spent there, but to put Riverdale in there is ridiculous. Click and Ross and the rest of the underclassmen are going to be very good but let's not go overboard.

Jay Golstyn tried a couple of years ago to start a boy's "club" high school program. The interest just didn't seem to be there. With our olympic success maybe there's more interest.

 

Boys are bigger and jump way too high to be playing with the girls. There's a reason the net is 7 inches lower for the girls. It would be great to one day see boys play in h.s.. Illinois and Pennsylvania have great boy's teams, and of course California is the mecca of boy's volleyball.

Siegel didn,t even get out of the district two years ago. How did they go to state?

Its that time of the year and Coach Campbell, of Brentwood High School, is about to unveil the current edition of the BIVD, with teams from Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia and Kentucky. IMO, it will be an event that a number of Colleges and Universities will see even if the opportunities to see some of these fine players have been there already with the Tournament schedule being as it has been. Are all of the great teams from Tennessee here? Absolutely not. This Tournament will keep you busy. Very good teams can come out of this event winless. Every match will be a struggle. Every match will have players to look for.

 

Brentwood High School-Coach Campbell just keeps winning matches. With many State Championships behind her she has been quoted as saying that this year will be a challenging. BHD hsd lost no matches to Tennesse schools but has found Alabama teams very challenging this year, This is a typical Brentwood team that is fast, quick and with a lot of potential and is like all BHS teams she coaches, is going to be challenging

 

Ensworth- A DivII school that seems to get better every time they play. A newer school that is very athletic at at times can have the potentialof great play.

 

Munford- A State champion participant last year and a team that is motivated to return. A small scholl that plays with a large school mentality. It is led by Sophmore Scarlet Gable "The Flyin Hawaiian" a real leaper. The school was a Regional Winner last year.

 

BGA A Division II School that is quick, fast and can battle you off of the floor. New first year coach with a lot of heart.

 

Page-A School with a tradition of winning. AA school that has never found a team it couldn't beat. many times State participant. Led by Nicole Smith, Jr Olympic Participant , an all around player and leader. Was on this years 17year old national championship team.

 

Collierville- Just of a win in their Collierville Invitational. Very good West Tennessee team with Junior Mackensie Glass leading their team. Very good all around balance.

 

Dobyns-Bennett- What can you say about this team and this program. it's the same as BHS except without all of the current State Championships. Acknowledged as one of the top teams in District 1 Tennessee, one of the two toughest Districts in Tennessee. Won the Choo Choo Chanpionship last week losing only to GPS and then coming back and beating tough Knoxville Catholic, Farragut, GPS, and Redbank to finally win the grueling event. They are the Big Nine Coaches favorite to go to State. They are led by megan Devine, jamie rutleedge, D. fleck and Sara Taylor.

 

Siegel- State Championship participant for the last three years with two legitimate College/University players, Libero Kristen Cantrell and Defensive Specialist Byrna Hoffman. they are led on the fron by middle Molly Ready, RS Katie Horencamp and OH Brooke Faulkner.

 

Ravenwood--With BHS one of the tio teams in one of the top Districts in the State, District 11. Led by Madelyn Hudson, acknowledged as one of the top DivI prospects in the nation.

 

Ootlewah-- Lots of Talented 11th graders coming back off of a team that was a State Finalist and lost 7 seniors and a verg good team. A top notch reloading team which speaks well for the school, the coach, and the program. Very good defensive team and led by Nikki Brooks, Andrea Morgan, Libby Peigen, Rated as 4th in Chattanooga Teams.

 

Hutchison-- has a 4-2 record with a lot of young players. Jus recently rated as the top team in the Memphis area.Led by 2 year starter and last years State assist leader, Freshman Sabitinni and All around leader Bekah Smith who recently set the 4th highest kill record in state history with 31 kills among the other records she holds. A DivII team with two State championship appearances and with much upside potential

Are you rating them as coaches or as people?

 

I believe Vince Lombardi said said I don't care if they like me just play for me.

 

Al Davis said just win baby.

 

They were both right.

 

I'm going on this site to rate our assistant coach now.

 

Of course some of you could be blinded by the glare of their state championship rings.

 

Are you rating their coaching ability. Funny how ALL good coaches have good players and all GREAT coaches have great players. And all great coaches in this state are great recuiters and have clubs sending them their players ready to get them another 50-70 victories. The coaching position at Howard High School is waiting for any of you.

Their are only 2 coaches in this state that could take that program and make it a winner.

 

 

 

I like the coaches who are at a school and don't win, then all of a sudden they go to a school filled with club players, and they become geniuses.

 

I agree that there are very few coaches who could win at a school like Howard. I think Paul Brock could do it.( I assume he's your brother) I would love to see what the MTSU staff could do there. To see what they did with an athlete like Asberry is astounding. I would predict no more state championships for anyone else.