supersteve17

Didn't ya'll have a QB sign with the Air Force Academy?

Will Healy signed with Air Force. Of course, every student there is actually on "scholarship" just like the other service academies. They operate under different rules than other D1 schools because of their unique circumstances. He went to their "prep school" for a year (never actually went to the Academy) and transferred to Richmond. He is still on the Spiders' roster and has been a career backup for the most part.

your concern for the small public is touching soupersteve.

but arent you a supporter for a small private that could get back into 1-A without the multiplier?

who is it wanting to see competition removed?

 

i dont remember hearing any of the publics talk about union city's student count,

and i know one of the coaches they beat on the way.

I love your sense of humor. I really do!

I have been a supporter of a Boyd-Buchanan for about twenty years. It would have been hard not to do so since my three children competed for the Bucs and Lady Bucs! I'm not wanting competition to be removed. BBS has not dodged any competition. They have competed fairly well over those twenty years in whatever district, region and/or classification they have been placed. They have not always been successful as far as wins and losses are concerned, but they have always competed well. Isn't that what it is all about?

I am a graduate of a 3A public school and have five siblings and in-laws who teach in public schools -- four of them small, rural class A schools. I am sympathetic to their plight. They have a much better chance of competing with Columbia Academy (for instance) than they will ever have of competing against Union City.

I don't suspect you will hear any public school coach decry the ramifications of the multiplier re: losing to another public school. It wouldn't be PC to voice those concerns through the media. I heard some of it in the coaches's "break room" at Murfreesboro. I also suspect you would have heard quite an outcry in the media of how the multiplier did not work had Temple pulled the improbable upset of Union City in the first round.

I'm all for competition. I have consistently been supportive of eliminating classification, especially in basketball.

My main point in raising the question in this thread is to point out the consequences of some actions taken in the last few years. When you buy the bull, you get the horns.

Union City might have been AA with 391 students...but Manassas would have been A anyway with 336 students.

 

Size of the school does not usually matter near as much in basketball rather than football. It wouldn't bother me to have one or two classes for basketball...softball...and baseball.

You might do a little more research than just the current TSSAA enrollment figures. It has been pretty well publicized in West Tennessee that Manassas and Westside merged this year and put the Manassas enrollment somewhere around 700. I realize this is an anomaly that will be corrected at the next re-alignment period, but it doesn't change the fact that Manassas was a 2A sized school this year.

I agree with your assertion that size is a less significant factor in basketball than in football. It would not bother me in the least to see us drop classification altogether. I've been consistent on that point throughout my discussions on this board.

Union City, a 2A sized school without the multiplier, beat Manassas, another 2A sized school without the multiplier in the state class A finals.

Interesting. I guess it's "pick your poison" for the small, rural public schools. It seems to me that a maximum enrollment number (maybe 250 students or less?) should be imposed on class A rather than a one-third, one-third, one-third division of classes.

What think ye?

no

Or simply apply the same multiplier to any school (private - open zone - magnet) that has players from outside their district playing on a team. That would also solve all this. The unfairness occurs when you have teams that have a multiplier applied to them who have to play teams that allow players from outside the district, who don't have a multiplier applied to them.

 

Does Alcoa or Maryville have an advantage? Let's find out. Out of the 2007 Championship teams - how many players from each team came from out of the district. Answer this question - and we'll know whether these schools are benefitting from their open zone status. If it turns out that there are only 2-3 players from out of the district, then its probably not a big deal. If its a much larger number, then there's probably something to the original argument stated on this posting.

 

And I've heard, not confirmed, that it only costs $750 for a student to attend Alcoa if they are out of the district.

Would it make any differnce if those players were Brandon Warren, Rae Sykes and Chris Shiverdecker? That's only three!

BTW, I'm only using those three as examples of difference makers at virtually ANY level. I have no information that they were/are from out of zone.

As we all know Ronnie Carter is FROM A PRIVATE SCHOOL!!! So naturally he's going to say it hasn't worked because Goodpasture CAN'T BEAT ALCOA in 2A and they can't win in 3A so he's going to put them back in 1A? How fair is that? Carter is looking out for GOODPASTURE and ONLY GOODPASTURE and the other PRIVATES! The public school system needs a voice of reason in TSSAA. No way Ronnie Carter should be given carte blanche to do however he see's fit just because GOODPASTURE can't win a state championship in 2A. Who else makes these decisions besides Carter? How can they not say that there isn't a cry for a complete split! ARE YOU NOT LISTENING?? THERE NEEDS TO BE A COMPLETE SPLIT!!! If not a complete split then like i said the privates need to play in 3A and up in Football and atleast 2A and up in basketball, baseball, etc... otherwise the so called "level playing" field will not exist in this state.

Are you sure RC is from a private school? I would guess he graduated from HS somewhere in the 1960's. That would mean that his possible pool of private schools from which to graduate would be much smaller. I also think his children went to a public school and I believe his son teaches/coaches at a public school also. I'm not disputing your information, I just don't know for sure.

I know that is your stance....and I respect that. There are very few states that don't have playoffs these days. I am for a playoff system of some kind. I think my stance is clear on that point too. What bothers me are the ones that want a playoff system slanted toward their advantage.

I am not so naive as to believe that we will ever go back to a no-playoff system. I agree that schools or groups of schools that seek a playoff system slanted towards their advantage is bothersome. What I don't know or can't figure out is what "advantages" are truly "advantageous" and what advantages are used as scapegoats or excuses for inadequacies. By the very nature of the case, aren't some schools going to have inescapable advantages over others each year? Those advantaged ones may change from year to year, but they will always exist, won't they? Am I missing something?

If TSSAA would give small publics 20,000$ per season to help them catch their facilities up to those of the privates so they could "DRAW" athletes to their program like privates do would be an easier way to level the playing field.

 

If you all believe that 11 on 11 or 5 on 5 is all their is to a sport and that money and size of school and quality facilities have nothing to do with winning then why don't all privates play 4A or 5A. I mean you can only put 11 kids on the field at one time right. Those kids at Maryville aren't born with a big "S" on their chest are they. Sounds fair to me.

I don't think you even want to go to the $$$$ thing.

BTW I have consistently advocated no classification for athletics in Tennessee. You can go back and check if you want to.

So...you are for one class for all.

Yes. And do away with football playoffs while you're at it (I've delineated my reasons in the past). That has been my stance pretty consistently for the last few years. I know it won't happen, but neither will the ever-elusive "level playing field."

what are your opinions on brainerd basketball team

A quality team stocked with good players. Great coaching. Great tradition. Should make a run towards the state tourney in what MAY be Robert High's last year as head coach of the Panthers.

It's a disappointing article, in my opinion, that pretty much states the obvious without attempting to explore any reasons for "why." For example, why do they cite that Glencliff was the last metro Nashville team to appear in the 5A title game in '99? Glencliff has been removed from the public/private debate since D2 was formed in '97. What do they have to do with this discussion? I think a legitimate question is "why have no metro Nashville schools been to a 5A title game since '99? while Rutherford and Williamson County teams have thrived?" But that is an article we will never see.

 

Lincoln County's AD is also quoted. Again, Lincoln County hasn't faced private schools in 10 years. Why is his opinion pertinent? And when Lincoln County was competing against the financial-aid granting private schools, they were dominating 3A with a 15-0 state title winning team in 1990. I can't see how they suffered at all from competition with private schools.

 

I think the data and facts overwhelmingly support the idea that small public schools are at a disadvantage vs. small private schools. But I think Supersteve, wherever he is, captured that a lot better on here several months ago than the author of this article did.

Satterfield is a clown, as usual.

Thanks for the shout-out! Much like this board, to which I return occasionally to hear what's being said, there is nothing new in this article that hasn't been articulated scores of times right here on this website. There still seems to be no consensus "resolution" to this terrible "level playing field" problem.

My hyperbolic solution is to only allow private schools ten on a side in football and soccer, four on a side in basketball, tie one arm behind their back in wrestling, give public schools four outs in baseball and five in softball, give them a head start of ten meters for every 100 meters of a race (you do the math) and (I almost forgot!) allow them eleven frames in bowling. For good measure, in state-sponsored cheerleading contests, DO NOT allow private school cheerleaders to lift their feet off the ground, clap their hands together or raise their voices.

That should level the playing field and make things fair against these super-advantaged private school kids.

Anyone know where Russell McNeil went to college?

I was present at the first game between these two teams and I was impressed by aspects of both. Milan has a good ground game and when they finally decided to use it consistently, they moved the ball well. JCS has good skill people and a good scheme but they bogged down too much in the red zone. The key matchup in this game may be the JCS o-line against the Milan defensive front. Hudson was running for his life much of the night in week 7 but when he had time, the passing game clicked. I'm not gonna make a prediction because of some personal ties, but I won't be shocked if either team wins. They seemed to be that evenly matched, at least in week 7!

not familiar with co-ops...what are they

If a public school does not offer a particular sport, a student from that school can play that sport at another designated school within that school system. The most glaring example I know about is in Maury County where a star basketball player from Culleoka (a small rural school) plays football for Columbia Central (a large 5A school). I don't know that it happens very often, but at least in this case, it makes a pretty significant impact.

Well I'm an East Tennessee hillbilly but I happened to be in West Tennessee last weekend and stopped by the Milan gridiron to watch the Bulldogs and Eagles play. I have to say I was impressed with both teams for different reasons. I thought both were fundamentally sound in most aspects of the game. If JCS could have found a way to convert one of those field goals into touchdowns, Milan might have been shocked. Give the 'Dogs credit in that they did what they had to do to win (it was pretty gutty going for two and the win, though I thought that was what they were going to do.).My personal opinion is that both of those teams would fair extremely well in our region 3AA over here.

As for this week's game, I have no idea about USJ but I know that JCS bunch is pretty salty. My uneducated pick is JCS by 10 points. (P.S. Good luck #19 and #29 from Uncle Supersteve!)

...players want to play football. They love playing football. They cry if they do not get to play. They dream about playing at night when they go to bed. They talk about it at the dinner table at home and at the lunch table at school. They nurse their wounds with pleasure and pride. They cannot wait for Fridays so they can mix it up under those majical lights. The crash of pads and helmets sends shivers of excitement through their bones. The sound of cleats clacking across the pavement causes their senses to come alive. The smell of nasty, sweaty locker rooms steels their resolve. Playing football strikes a chord that resounds deep within their bowels and drives them to compete with a raw desire to do battle that emanates from their guts and unifies the hearts of men since ancient times.

This is absolutely classic! It should be posted on every football lockerroom bulletin board in the world. John Facenda (or whatever the guy's name is that does the voice for NFL Films) should say this as the lead-in on a production about football. I'm serious. This is great!

OK, maybe I got a little carried away there. But it is pretty good!

If Boyd recruits so heavily, don't you think they could do a little better than 6-7 and 4-8 the past two seasons?

Maybe they need to fire their recruiting coordinator!

I think we are closer to a split for the playoffs than we have ever been.

You are probably right about that.

The schools believe they can self-report and handle the problems. This includes both public and private schools, not just public.

In a society (or organization) based on integrity, that should be the case!

Some old ideas are just that. I would rather see a class system with state champions of some sort. Do you remember the system you have proposed? I am just curious. I do.

I just noticed this post. Wasn't trying to avoid the discussion.

The answer is "Yes, I do remember." What was worse about it than what we have now, which many obviously do not care for? It was arbitrary and spurred much debate and discussion about the "best team(s)" in the state. A mythical champ was crowned and in some cases, a bowl game pitted the supposed top two teams in the state. Was that system any more controversial or despised than the one we currently have?

I can see teams like Howard being squeezed out because they bring no fans, I know they weren't even considered for non-region games by the area 2A teams, after they went to 3A. Some years they literally had 10 or less in the stands, despite being only about 45 minutes away. The last football game I saw at Howard, they maybe had 75 in the home stands and they were okay that year, probably 5-5. I can't see how they'd get enough significant wins to make the playoffs since they'd have to scrap together a schedule. Around here it actually might work well for the regular season-You could have old rivals Sequatchie, Bledsoe, Whitwell, Grundy, Marion and South Pittsburg play each other, right now they're scattered from 1A to 3A. But again that might not be impressive enough for the playoffs. Most of those have dropped off badly in the last few years and even South Pittsburg has a bad season every now and then, they were 2-8 I think at the start of the decade and had a losing record I think in 2004. Summing it up, I believe the problem would be at times, schools having to choose between opponents that would be strong enough to make them playoff eligible (if they could win those games) and money games if the opponent wasn't the strongest. I'd hate to schedule, just as an example, McCallie, to increase your points, then see them lose a quarterback, running back, etc to injury, go 0-10 and your playoff potential be damaged because they're a weak team that year.

In all likelihood, the county school system (in this case, Hamilton) would force their schools to "stick together" to make sure all the county teams had a full schedule. Schools that might be left out would be the smaller, private schols. In a county like Hamilton, there might be enough of them to fill out a schedule, but it would be difficult. Another fallout of this might be that schools in the outlying counties (like Sequatchie) could be shut out from scheduling Hamilton County schools if HC forced its schools to schedule each other. I haven't tried to figure out exactly how it would all work, but I could see some potential problems for some schools.

If the TSSAA would hire an investigator for each grand division, and they could drop in on any school at any time, it would straighten up a lot of problems. Why haven't they? Money to hire them and the fact that the schools themselves would have to set this up (TSSAA BOC or legislative council) and they don't want it, apparently.

I hate to be cynical about this, but could it be that the reason no "investigators" are employed by the TSSAA is that the BOC, LC or the majority membership of the TSSAA don't really want to know about some "recruiting" that takes place? I guess if the right buttons (or wrong buttons, depending on your perspective) get pushed, an "investigation" is launched.

According to the official ruling, the case has been remanded to the Court of Appeals (Sixth Circuit, I assume) for "further proceedings consistent with this opinion."

Does that mean they (6th Circuit) will now go back and take out BA's arguments that freedom of speech and due process were violated and rule on the TSSAA "undue influence" recruiting rule?

I believe that TSSAA would do well to reconsider the wording of its recruiting rules in general.

So what does it all mean?