gobigred

Well done.

 

That being said, since 2004 schedules should mirror 2003 schedules, I do not put much value in the rumor, although anything is possible with non-league, out-of-state games.

Could this be the beginninings of the "Super South" league we have seen discussed before? Ya never know!!

RRR please email me at orgasonic@hotmail.com when you get a chance.

There is basically a 9 team race for 8 playoff spots. Since 4 of the teams are so close in points, a couple of game losing streak could spell trouble. Preds are playing poorly and, imo, need to at least tie tonight to stop the bleeding. Picked up Steve Sullivan from Chicago and should help in scoring and possibility playoff leadership. I'm hooked real bad now. On my way to the GEC to watch the preds play tonight.

The addition of Sullivan is an important move for the Preds for two reasons IMO. First, he will add some much needed offensive punch to the lineup as you have noted. More importantly, the addition signals a new level of financial commitment by management to make the team better during drive for the playoffs.

How important do you think it is for the Preds to make the playoffs this year? Season ticket sales and overall attendance has continued to decline, so my guess is that this is a very important season for the future of the franchise in Nashville.

The Yankees have made the habit of trying to buy up all of the talent for years. As we have seen though, you cannot buy the championship. Having the most talented roster will usually get you to the playoffs, but anybody can win in a short series.

The real question mark or them this year will be pitching.

Being competitive is a sometimes a choice made by a school be they private or public. During the past several years I have observed many public schools that appear to have a good talent base but for some reason this is not reflected on the field or diamond or court. The same thing could be said with some privates. Some schools make a choice to strive for excellence, some go through the motions and this reflects in their success. Is it leadership, is it a reflection of the schools adminstration, is it the athletes themselves being satisfied with mediocrity? I do not think that legislating a so called level playing field will change teams success or lack there of. Teams dedicated to success will make the adjustment and be competitive. Teams that are complaisant and satisfied with mediocrity will continue to fail. Many of the teams that have cried foul have no business complaining at all because they are the ones to blame for their lack of success.

Excellent points std. Nice post.

The multiplier was the best option available to the TSSAA for now. It certainly provides the 1A publics some relief, especially in football which is what most folks are concerned about. I agree with VG and 37421 though, the same handfull of teams will swap the titles around from year to year.

If the ABC privates decide to stay in DI (probably 50/50 at this point), they will be competitive, but not be as dominating as a group right away. If they igrow and improve at the same rate as in the recent past, it will only take 2-3 years for things to heat up again.

As much as I regret it, my gut feeling is that nothing is going to prevent the eventual splitting of all public and private schools for athletic purposes.

 

 

WOW.....it has gotten obscenely quiet in this thread!

I agree , looks like the dunce cap is on the other head now.

Another deeply thoughtful memo from CSense! Posting this kind of insulting material reduces your credibility with other posters to zero my friend. I know you can do better than this!!

WOW.....it has gotten obscenely quiet in this thread!

There is life beyond CoachT!

Yes, it is. Now, answer this. Knowing that he has the option to coach at MBA for a decent salary and he doesn't have to teach, do you think Jeff Rutledge would ever coach at a public school where he would have to teach and make not very much money? Again, there are always exceptions to the rule, but what percentage of private schools have good coaches (and why) and what percentage of public schools do (and why)?

I have no idea what Coach Rutledge makes or how his salary compares with that of a public school coach. Since I don't know what he makes, what his salary requirements are, or what his career goals are, I have no idea whether or not he would consider teaching and coaching at a public school of similar size.

Now, answer this. Do you know how much high school coaches make at all levels in both public and private schools and do you know Jeff Rutledge personally? If not, your inference in this specific case is pure speculation on your part, so you can provide the answers to your questions as well as I can. If you do have the specific information, feel free to enlighten me.

I have seen some excellent coaches and some poor coaches in every sport at both public and private schools. Since I have no knowledge of the ability level of the vast majority of coaches in Tennessee (public or private) any attempt to assign percentages would be nothing more than an uninformed guess that proves nothing.

Now answer this. Do you have access to an assessment, or are you in a position to accurately assess the ability of the majority of coaches in Tennessee? That information would be necessary to reasonably calculate the percentages you are asking for. Again, feel free to enlighten me if you have accurate data.

Again, I would like to see if you think public schools should perform as well academically as private schools. Based on your arguments, the performance of public schools on standardized tests should be the same as that of private schools. But it is not and it will never be!!!

I would expect private school students as a group to perform better on standardized tests (except public academic magnets) since they have to pass an entrance exam for admission in most cases. With that said, there are many brilliant kids in schools all across the public system. Now answer this. Is this discussion about athletics or academics?

I will bite there gobigred. continually dominant? when was Trousdale"s last state title? When was South Pittsburg's ? I know that one 1999. Also in 2000 the year after South Pittsburg went 1-9 (0-10 after the forfiet).

FatCat used Trousdale as an example. South Pitt's over all success rate compares well with that of TC, so if you disagree with the examples, argue with FatCat.

Sometimes it is a VERY GOOD Coach who stays with that school for many, many years. An exceptional coach can produce winners no matter the talent or participation. Sometimes it is the "in thing" in the community that drives that sport.

Yep, that is the key to success at many private schools also!

But, here is a better question. What public schools consistantly perform well in ALL TSSAA sports? NONE!!! There are a lot of factors that I just touched on as to why a school might excel in ONE sport.......but NONE OF THEM do well in ALL SPORTS. On the contrary, the average private school excels in ALL SPORTS or MOST SPORTS.

 

If you can answer me that one, then you might have an argument!!!

There are seldom any private schools in the state that could compete with the best public basketball and baseball programs. In fact there would seldom be a private school that would even be in the top ten (all classifications included) in the state in these sports on a consistent basis.

The general rule is that the greater your student population, the greater the chance you will have more quality athletes. But, it doesn't guarantee that. Trousdale County is a perfect example of the exception. There are many factors (as you said) that determine the quality of the teams that come onto the field. That is why it is a rare team that continually dominates in the public schools. There are too many factors that can change. But, the one constant is the size of the pool from which they have to draw from.

 

On the other hand, the private schools don't face such a fluid situation in the types of kids they get in.  They have a pretty consistant high level of student athlete. 

 

OK FatCat, I'll bite. You say it is rare team that continually dominates in the public schools, and you mention Trousdale County as a rare exception.

How do you explain the perenneal strength of a few additional public school programs that come to mind? How do they do it?

Riverdale football

Maryville football

Milan football

South Pittsburg football

Shelbyville women's basketball

White Station men's basketball

Germantown baseball

I would suggest that the dominance you reference is not all that rare!

Hey baldcoach, you will have it made in AA until you win your region 3 or 4 years in a row and go to the state finals and maybe win one, then we will be on here again going through the same old arguments.

You guys will never be satisfied until all private schools are split from publics regardless of their classification and / or success rate. You might as well be completely candid about it.

For the millionth time...I don't mind playing GP and DL in the regular season. I don't want to play them in the playoffs. They do have an unfair advantage. That's my opinion...ought to be yours.

Do you mind playing them if the regular season games affect your playoff potential? As you are keenly aware, most coaches, players and fans these days consider the ultimate level of success to be a state championship. How sweet would it be for the SC faithful to beat DL or GP for the gold ball? Are you saying indirectly that it can't be done, or would you just rather not make the attempt?

Smith County's football program, and public school programs across the state deserve more credit than you are giving them!

I will absolutley guarantee you DL and GP don't outwork our kids. I will also guarantee you they don't have better coaches that teach any better techniques.

We have six fulltime assistants and at least four voluntary assistants. We have a very good off-season weight program. The coaches don't waste a minute in practice. Every kid is involved in every second of every practice.

Nah...the difference in most years is athletes. Some years we have them (3 all-state this year). Some years we don't. GP and DL have them every year.

I guess it's just magic.

Do you coach football and / or teach at SC? I am not implying that GL and GP out work you guys or anyone else for that matter. I respect your program, and I am sure the effort is there. Hopefully that effort will produce the results you seek. That is why I am mystified that you would philosophically relegate public school football programs to a level below the privates. It seems to me that you guys in the public arena would relish the opportunity to beat your private school counterparts.

I stand by my statement that the key to the consistency of the private school programs is based on maximizing the football efficiency of the average athlete. I can give you examples that suppport my belief , but I doubt it would make any difference in the way you view the issue.

You could argue that it's coaching.

Maybe...that certainly is a factor.  How do they keep getting great athletes?  Lipscomb is usually a senior dominated team every year.  They just reload.  They two platoon mostly.  How many 2a teams do that?  Not many.

Coaching is a huge factor. You dont see too many privates running the Wing-T any more, but I'm not just talking X's and O's. The reason Lipscomb, Goodpasture and other privates can two platoon is not because they have 22 stud athletes. These coaches have the ability and desire teach and motivate kids with average athletic ability to be good high school football players. They can and do out execute teams with bigger, faster athletes on a regular basis.

Sure the private schools have a few above average athletes, but then so do most public school teams. The secret to the consistency of the private school's success in football at all levels is not incredible athletic talent. It is their ability to maximize the effectiveness of the average athlete through rigorous physical training, constant coaching of technique and instilling a high level of mental discipline.

BTW, Gobigred, that silence sure has turned around on this thread, hasn't it!

No doubt, itzme. Hopefully the frank discussion here has at least caused some folks to honestly consider the realities of the situation as it stands today. As in all other things in society, changes have taken place in the way that our children are educated that will never be reversed. The public community schoolhouse is no longer the only viable option for educating children.

High school athletics are a very important part of life and growing up for many kids, so the decisions that determinine the direction we take must to be based on an honest assessment of the total picture with an eye toward doing what is best for everyone involved.

Antwan, sorry for the delay in my response.

You are grouping me with all public guys which is a mistake. I...on the other hand...should not group you with all private guys.

Fair enough. It just seems like the "privates have unfair advantages" theme is universal with public school supporters.

Do you really think that you don't have an advantage in all sports?

If I am not mistaken...David Lipscomb is the ONLY DI AA private school. All others in the DI are in A. Of course...they are in our region.

I think both public and private schools have advantages and disadvantages when compared to each other.

Jackson County girls can play with anyone on a given night. I don't really see your point. Jackson County boys are close to last place in the district. Same school...same facilities.

The irony is, of course, that JC is a relatively small rural school. If one swallows the party line of the public supporters on here, it begs the question of how can they possibly field a team that compete with the powerhouse publics and ANY of the privates in the state? I do not know anything about the JC boys program. Perhaps you can tell me why their girls are a top team in the state and the boys are not successful. I have an idea, but I don't know for sure.

We both know this debate is mostly about football. Other sports are just a by-product. I see double standards and selfishness on both sides.

I agree, it is primarially a football issue, but the animosity towards private schools permeates all sports now. There are probably those on both sides of the issue that have selfish motives, but a futher split is not the best solution.

Do you think it is fair for us to be in the same football region with Goodpasture and David Lipscomb? Do you think they have advantages over us? Please tell me your opinion.

By the way...congrats on a great season this year. I think you had the best team in the state by far.

A challenge for you, yes. An insurmountable, unfair,advantage for them , no. I don't think the Huntingdon football team would agree with you. I would personally like to see DL and Goodpasture move up either by multiplier or their own decision. I think moving up would strenghten their programs by offering stronger competition during the regular season.

Thanks for mentioning the MBA football program. We have been been blessed with some outstanding skill players the last two years, and as always the coaching staff gets the most out all of the kids. Next year offers a big challenge, especially offensively. We have to replace starters at QB, RB, TE and all WR's.

The last two paragraphs of that article say it all.

Obviously Jackson County doesn't play AA privates on their schedule, but you and I both know they can play with any team in the state on a given night, so your point is moot. Nice try though.

Since we have all of the advantages at MBA, why is our record 8-10 in basketball? It would probably be even worse if we had the Metro publics on the schedule.

Reread our last few posts on this thread and consider the debate of the last two years along with them. It is obvious. If you can't see what I am talking about with regard to conflicting arguments and a double standard from you guys, then my repeating examples is a waste of time.

I would not say Jackson County has any advantage over us.  They have built their progam with girls from that county.  They have probably the best coach in the state (girls basketball). 

 

Not too many years ago...they were awful in girls basketball.  We used to pound them.  They do have one of the best girls programs in the US.  Who knows what tomorrow will bring?  It really depends on your perspective.  Everything is relative.

I guess the real point is that we are not competing for players.  We both play with what we have.  Most all of their kids grew up there...as did most all of ours.

Lately...they have been better at developing those players.  We have been better in most other sports.

I protest!! The public schools have the best boys and girls basketball teams in the state every year. How can this be when a rural school team like the Jackson County girls who was non-competitive only a short time ago now be a national powerhouse? Either they are getting players under the table, or there is something special being added to the water up in Baxter?

 

They have to have some unfair advantage!! It can't just be good coaching, hard working kids, and strong parent and community support can it? We all know from our public school firends on CoachT that public school parents don't encourage their kids and the kids lack motivation to succeed, right? We all know they have access only to the relatively small population base in rural Jackson County, right? Imagine how good they would be if they could get kids from all over the Cookeville area!

 

I want to see publics and privates split for basketball. The privates just don't have a chance any more!!

 

Thank you Antwan. The irony of your posts has made my day!

 

 

At least know the county seat of Jackson County before you smart off. That would be nice. If they have an unfair advantage...it's news to me. They are on top because they worked for it. They have also been blessed with an unusual run of talent. They don't have a huge population base like the urban 1a privates. Call it irony if you will. If you want a split in basketball...that's okay with me. By the way...how many privates are there in AA that are competing with JC?

Your lack of knowledge on the subject has made my day also.

At least know a little about the subject before chiming in.

Uh oh, a personal attack from Antwan! A little bitter there, eh my friend?....I must have hit a nerve! Sorry I mistakenly said Baxter instead of Gainesboro, but the message still applies. Nice attempt at diverting attention to my point though. You public school guys sure love to argue for a double standard on the p/p issue.

P.S. I applaud Jackson County's success. I am happy to see ANY Tennessee high school program get national recognition, and my statement about a split was totally in jest. Lets put 'em all back together and play ball!

I would not say Jackson County has any advantage over us. They have built their progam with girls from that county. They have probably the best coach in the state (girls basketball).

 

Not too many years ago...they were awful in girls basketball. We used to pound them. They do have one of the best girls programs in the US. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? It really depends on your perspective. Everything is relative.

I guess the real point is that we are not competing for players. We both play with what we have. Most all of their kids grew up there...as did most all of ours.

Lately...they have been better at developing those players. We have been better in most other sports.

I protest!! The public schools have the best boys and girls basketball teams in the state every year. How can this be when a rural school team like the Jackson County girls who was non-competitive only a short time ago now be a national powerhouse? Either they are getting players under the table, or there is something special being added to the water up in Baxter?

They have to have some unfair advantage!! It can't just be good coaching, hard working kids, and strong parent and community support can it? We all know from our public school firends on CoachT that public school parents don't encourage their kids and the kids lack motivation to succeed, right? We all know they have access only to the relatively small population base in rural Jackson County, right? Imagine how good they would be if they could get kids from all over the Cookeville area!

I want to see publics and privates split for basketball. The privates just don't have a chance any more!!

Thank you Antwan. The irony of your posts has made my day!

While I have done very little if any posting, I have followed this thread quite closely. From what I know ( from friends with daughters who play softball ) and seen, pitchers start training and working at a very young age. You do not suddenly decide in 10th grade that you want to pitch. A lot of time and money goes into developing a pitcher. I think this gets back to the topic of private school participation and parental involvement, not the least of which would be financial.

You are correct that experience and training are vital to the success of a softball pitcher.

Are you trying to convince us that there are no kids in public schools whose parents have had them taking private pitching lessons for years? Don't kid yourself. I frequently spend time (and money) at a private baseball / softball training facility, and I assure you there are plenty of public school softball players there receiving pitching and hitting lessons.

And you do not have to use softball as the example. Pick any sport. It all works the same. The smallest of private schools can attract (enroll) students from a much larger radius (zone/boundary) than the largest of public schools, much less the small public schools.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

I understand perfectly!

It is obvious that ANY school that has access only to a strictly zoned population base has a disadvantage as compared to ANY school that can draw from a larger base, even if enrollment is equal.

It is also obvious that ANY school that charges several thousand dollars for tuition is has a disadvantage as compared to ANY school that does not charge tuition, even if enrollment is equal.

What you are missing here is that athletic classification issues are not nearly as one dimensional as you seem to think they are. Public schools and private schools both have advantages and disadvantages in terms of access to student athletes.

To borrow from your post, "Why is that so hard to understand?"

gobigred, what you say may be true about fielding a winning team.  I will make you a similar challenge.  You field a team from within a one mile radius of your house and I will field a team with players from all over the south including players from within your boundary and see who more likely could field the winner.  Deal?

It could well depend on how many all state pitchers lived within my one mile radius! C'mon now CSense, you can do better than that! How many high schools can you name that only draw students from a one mile radius? Can you name even one in Tennessee?

My point to you is that softball is not a good point of reference for your defense of public schools. A 1A public with an all state pitcher could be very competitive with many if not all teams in 5A.

FYI, I am in favor of giving small rural publics relief in classification, especially in football, but splitting all public and private schools is not the best answer. The multiplier is a good start, and it should be placed, with appropriate variances, on the enrollments of all public and private schools that do not have strict zones IMO.

This one pitcher does not pitch every game does she?

On most high school softball teams, yes, one girl pitches every game.

Silverpie is right. The throwing motion of a softball pitcher is a natural movement that produces relatively little stress on the shoulder and elbow. They can throw every day if necessary. Consequently, one stud pitcher on a high school squad equals one very competitive team.

 

It is a team sport in theory, but the success of any fast pitch team is totally dependent on the quality of their ace hurler. Softball is not a very good point of reference for this discussion.

Dang gobigred, Soddy-Daisy (5A enrollment) has had at least two ace pitchers at the same time over the past 4 years and still could only beat Boyd (1A enrollment) about half the time.

 

There must be a little more to it than one player.

Well there you go! My point exactly. I would expect two teams with great pitchers to play about even in women's softball regardless of classification or the supporting cast!

Tell you what, I'll take my high school team with one all state pitcher and average position players and beat your team with an average pitcher and all state position players eight out of ten times. If you were a betting man, would you bet against me?

I heard him say on a radio show that he plans to stay in the Nashville area and that he might like to coach at the high school level. Wouldn't that be interesting hire for someone?

I bet there would be a lot of moms coming out to the field to look at the coach.......Whoops, I mean to watch practice!