rollredroll

Glad you enjoyed the broadcast. It is first rate. Of course the announcers were "homers" - it was a regular weekly MUS broadcast for MUS fans - what did you expect? They are all former MUS players and/or coaches. They give insight into the game that many don't or can't. But you did notice they called it "both ways" as they say. And surely you noticed the excellent video quality.

I am not going to profess that I watch every webcast in the state* and/or listen to every radio crew out there, but (1) the MUS feeds always have been the most consistently fluid ones I have seen, and (2) the MUS broadcasters have always been well-informed, knowledgeable, and very adept at tempering their natural homer-ism at the right times (I first noticed this at the 2008 MBA-MUS playoff game in Memphis, which my MUS friend gladly spared me from witnessing much of the second half of that game with a trip to Rendezvous for ribs and luke-warm pitchers...but we did have to listen to the rest of the game on the radio on the way).

* As an aside, I do find it somewhat humorous to read some of the posters on here - one in particular who fancies himself as a national guru - who talk about all the teams and games they have seen across the nation, as if they and they alone are privy to such games (almost as if they travel like Santa Claus to multiple games across multiple states on Friday nights). To be able to watch high school games online, and even on TV, is absolutely awesome - who would have ever thought it 10 years ago? - even if it has made some people some self-professed national gurus of high school football.

York Institute and Livingston Academy also are public.

After MBA called two straight timeouts trying to ice the McCallie kicker, the refs decided to measure for a first down (after a MBA penalty) when it was second down and 4.5 seconds left. They could have measured during one of the two timeouts and it didn't matter in the least. They essentially gave MBA a third timeout to ice Rocha. Although I think he misses the kick anyway.

I haven't posted this season, but I'll break the cherry on this one.

I didn't follow the last seconds of that game with the anticipation of a measure being an issue the following day (so apologies in advance if I am missing something), but as best as memory serves...

Given that the MBA penalty occurred after the two timeouts, why in the world would officials measure during one of the two timeouts for a first down when the ball is several yards away from a first down? Are they supposed to anticipate during either the first or second timeout that MBA is going to commit a penalty that will put the ball in a measurable situation? I have seen measures occur when a ball is a yard-ish away from a first down marker, but several yards away? I am assuming the ball was at least several yards away from the first down during the timeouts, for if it were a yard or so away, I don't think even that crew would have been measuring for a first down after a five or ten yard penalty. I seem to recall the official showed the hands-close-together sign indicating the ball was inches away after measure, which implies the prior spot was several yards away and not a measurable situation at that point in the timeline.

While I don't think the first down measure mattered - McCallie was going to try for the FG regardless of whether or not a first down was made after the penalty - to retrospectively question why the officials didn't measure for a first down during one of the two timeouts seemingly has little to no merit. I would think that officials have some sort of obligation to measure for a first down on those close calls (yard-ish) regardless of game situation, but while I don't think that crew is reading the officials rulebook in its spare time, it may have shown some degree of knowledge of the rules on that one.

I'm sorry to hear that. He was a great resource for Huntingdon football and was always one of my favorite historians among the people who have shared their schools' football histories with me. I had always wanted to come down to Huntingdon to thank him in person and now regret that we never had the chance to meet in person.

I believe, the right answer is 1973 for the regular season AND 1969 for the playoffs.

Yes, this is correct. 1973 was definitely the start for the regular season.

Rollredroll,

It looks as if you access to some type of database for newspapers reporting historical scores. How did you find that? I would be interested in looking up some old scores for a few games.Is there a way that I can look up old newspapers that may have information like that on line? Specifically in the Knoxville area but may need to look up a few down in the nashville area as well.

The State Archives in Nashville has essentially all papers ever printed in the state on microfilm. That's where I do my research. If you are not in Nashville or live conveniently near Nashville, I would call your local library to see what papers it has on microfilm.

Finding old scores is a painstaking task, even for just one school (and I am trying to do it for 400+). Games get postponed, scores get misreported, there are score discrepancies between score listings and box scores, blurry copies, etc., etc. But, the information is out there to be had; you just need time, patience, and access to microfilm at the library.

At the bottom of this post is a link to a database I keep for scores. For the older scores (i.e., before the Internet became a mainstream tool in the early-to-mid 90s), I have pulled most of the scores from microfilm (some individual schools have sent in contributions as well). See if the scores/years you need are there: if not, I may be sitting on some hard copies that I just haven't had time to upload yet. I have actually dug fairly deep in Knoxville this year (the city schools and the two privates in particular), so there may be something of use under those teams' pages.

Dont forget Hillsboro/Franklin calling it a "tie" a couple of years ago due to weather.

While I do recall that game, the TSSAA struck the game from the record as if it never occurred since no attempt was made to play the remaining portion of the game at a later time.

<BR>I'm sure it involves an out of state team, since it is only one Tennessee team. Do we get clues? <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://cdn.coacht.com/boards/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif"><BR>

To spare any faux buildup or drama, it was Ridgeway in 2005. They played a team out of Arkansas to a 20-20 tie in 2005.

Speaking of Ridgeway, I see where they are playing a team out of Dallas in 2011. That should be a heck of a trip down to Texas for those boys (which in itself leads to another question - which is the only Tennessee program to take on a school from Texas in the modern era?).

highball76's calculation is correct in the way ties traditionally have been counted in winning percentages.

OK, my two cents'worth.I believe that the multiplier was enacted to even the playing field,as the schools to which it was applied were deemed to have an unfair advantage with the abality to "recruit" the students that the administration felt would be assets,and/or having the abality to deny access or aid to others.I don't feel that bickering over small details serves to shed any light on the subject,or if it matters which(if any)religion is associated in any way with the administration.This is not a matter of which students recieve aid,or for that matter how much or for what it's to be applied,but for the potential to be offered to athleates as a recruiting aid.Simplicity is a lost art in our society,and people tend to put too much emphisis on minute details in the effort to disguise the spirit of the rule.I'll leave it to the lawyers and nitpickers to divulge the differences between DI and DII,and just state the obvious....if any type of assistance is offered to any student,by any person or entity with ties to the school,for any reason,the multiplier should be enacted...period.

If the multiplier exists to handicap schools with a perceived ability to recruit, then is there a need for Division II? Wouldn't placing the current DII schools in DI with a multiplier address the issue if it were an ability-to-recruit issue?

A quick internet search will show that the multiplier was applied to address the wide discrepancy in the extracurricular participation rates of private school students versus public school students. Prohibiting students who receive aid in DI from playing sports addresses the recruitment issue, not the multiplier.

My records show games ending in ties as late as 1972, so I would assume 1973 was the year that ties were played off in overtime.

coach763, in the listing of scores for that 1969 game, the Nashville papers were showing that game ending in a 0-0 tie, so if overtime were played, the papers missed it. In fact, the papers from that year show each team having another tie game (Cameron with Litton and Donelson with Two Rivers).

An interesting trivia question would be what one Tennessee program has had a tie game since 1973? If there's more than one, I haven't seen it, but I do know of one.

I noticed he mentioned competition, and competition is just that, I don't care who you are, or where you play. If Maryville won 74 straight, why didn't Franklin, Brentwood, or anyone else for that matter in middle tn. play Maryville on an open date. I am sure they were looking for opponents. As with all programs that win, unless you have to play them, most choose not too. That is just my guess. But if you want to make excuses, I hear they are like other body parts, everybody has them, or can make them. Hello! Is anybody listening????????????

I am not sure that Franklin, Centennial, Brentwood, Ravenwood, are even in the same category as Maryville as far as competition goes????

Twenty years ago, Tennessee had three football classes, encompassing roughly 300 football-playing schools. There were about 75 all-state players in that year - 11 on each side of the ball per class, plus some special teamers.

Today, Tennessee has eight classes and approximately 330 football-playing schools. I think there were about 270 all-state players this year.

So, the number of football schools has increased about 10%. In contrast, the number of classes has increased 167%, and the number of all-staters has increased about 260%.

Therein lies your answer.

Louisville,KY Trinity only has 3 district games. That means 7 OOS games for them. I know they are thinking of some TN teams. I'm assuming MBA or BA will play them(I wish Maryville or Alcoa would play them, though.) Anyone know which?

As of now...Brentwood Academy hosts Trinity 8/19. MBA travels to Trinity 8/26.

Thanks again for all the feedback. A few more questions that I'm still fuzzy on after reading this thread and the one Red Rebels linked:

Jefferson High School - was this is Dandridge? Nicknames/colors?

Parrottsville - nicknames/colors? Successor school? I see a few years of scores in the early-to-mid 70s but that's it.

Alcoa Hall - what's the story with this school? I see scores in 1967 but none before or after.

Would you not be critical of a school who just hired a coach who has no head coaching experience?

 

CPA was a fun program to watch under Matthews helm and they were competitive but the administration and TSSAA has put them at a disadvantage in this new district.

 

I see parents want their players coddled. Well good look to Ingle in coddling football players and trying to turn the ship around at the same time.

Criticism is fine. I think it is better served with a body of work on which to base the criticism.

If schools hire only the experienced (the same could be applied to the corporate world or many other arenas of life as well), at some point, the coaching pool dries up. Young blood has to be infused at some point; it’s a Catch-22 otherwise.

I don’t really have a problem with much of the commentary on this thread (in fact, the post about “young leadership†was spot-on in a general sense, at least based on my travels and in my opinion). But, the movie analogy still applies. The crowds were smothering Coach Dale with their armchair coaching before he even had a chance to tell the throngs how he did things.

The CPA teams of yesteryear would lay sod over the Pearl-Cohns and Maplewoods of the same era (P-C may have been a battle, but not nearly as much after Henderson and Beard left), and that was at a time with larger enrollment disparities than there are today between those three schools. What’s the difference now? It’s certainly not reinvention of the game at those two Metro schools. And it’s not just the coaching at CPA.

News footage of Signing Day on Old Hickory Boulevard in the late 90s looks vastly different from what is seen today at the same address. Perhaps that's a good place to start before coaching is deemed the primary issue.

If Hollywood ever wants to remake the movie Hoosiers, producers need not look further than this tiny cache of bandwidth to find their extras for the barber shop or first practice scenes in the beginning of the movie.

Congrats to Ingle.

I think you need also Englewood and Etowah, which possibly was called the Pile Drivers?

PUMMELKING, I need to add Englewood and Etowah as well. Right now, I am short on schedules/scores pre-1969, and I think those schools ceased around 1965 or 1966. But, I will add those very soon as I start pulling the pre-1969 years.

One other question for the board:

Many of the old papers refer to Tazewell, Mountain City, and Huntsville. Are these Claiborne, Johnson County, and Scott as we know them today? I assume so but want to be sure.

Thanks again to everyone for the info. The school history info above is also very helpful. One of the many tasks I am approaching in the offseason is adding score pages for closed schools, such as the ones above. There are approximately 55 closed schools on the site now, and after adding some of those above and others in Middle and West Tennessee, there likely will be over 100 closed schools to track.

As always, if anyone has gaps to fill where there are missing scores/games, I appreciate the help.

Thanks to everyone for the help thus far, including the schools linked to the former schools (smokefb).

Sneaky, I already had that information for those schools you mentioned and therefore did not include them in the request (Holston Warriors, Doyle Pioneers, Madisonville Golden Tornadoes, Vonore Blue Devils, etc.).

I am trying to track down some information on some old/closed East Tennessee schools. Specifically, I am looking primarily for the nicknames and, if known, the school colors of a handful of schools:

Knox. Austin

Knox. East

Boones Creek

Friendsville

Lake City

Lanier

Maury

Porter

Spring City

Surgoinsville

Townsend

Walland

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Yougtiger and I have been the stat guys for mTp since 2005. With help from others and the time I spent at Columbia State's library I have been able to dig up about 95% of mTp stats since the school opened in 1970. I spent more time at the libray doing the stat work than I did when I was in school. Pretty intresting to see everything.

I may have asked this before; if so, I forgot the answer. What is Hay-Long High School's relation to Mt. Pleasant High School? Was Hay-Long a school that closed after the 1969-70 school year, and the students went to a new Mt. Pleasant High in the fall of 1970, or did the school just change names? I know that the Nashville papers refer to a Mt. Pleasant in its score listings during the 1969 season; should the reference be to Hay-Long instead?

Thanks.

I seem to recall a personal, heartfelt tribute from Coach Mathews to Coach Rutledge in the 2005 game program when MBA played at CPA. It mentioned Coach Mathews knowing the Rutledges from church in Alabama and Jay's admiration for Jeff when Jeff played at Alabama and in the NFL, and as a person in general.

I don't profess to know what happened that caused the coaching change - I only know what I read on here - but based on what I read on the other thread on this topic, I would guess that Rutledge would, out of respect, be hesitant even to interview at CPA given his close relationship with the Mathews family.

No, the poster meant Jeff Brothers if he was thinking of someone at Pope John Paul. Rutledge was never there.

Jeff Rutledge is the football coach at Pope John Paul II.

http://www.jp2hs.org/