BOBJONES1983
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Posts posted by BOBJONES1983
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Wow. Now that was not only eloquent but very efficient and easily understood. You guys oughta hear him break down the war in Iraq. I'm sold. BCB and BRB lookout. The "well spoken one" is closing in on you.
Just for clarification. What is the EBE?
-Bob Jones
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I haven't been on this thing in about 4 years, but the conversation has, for the most part, not skipped a beat!
Anyone have open practice rooms/good 160-189 lb. wrestlers who want a different workout partner for a change? If so, what school and what are your practice times?
-Bob "needing to get back in shape" Jones
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Yeah that kind of stuff happens every year. It's pretty pathetic. 140 and 152 are a mess too. It happens. Something needs to be done about it in the future. They (the TSSAA) say that they're going to fix it every year, but I just think it has gotten worse.
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The entire McCallie coaching staff would be tough to match. It includes three or four state champions, a national prep champion, five former NCAA Division I wrestlers (3 or 4 of which were national qualifiers), a senior national freestyle champion, a senior world freestyle champion, and a bear wrestler.
-Mike Newman (a.k.a. The Newmanator) would match up well with the bikers as far as size and psychological mindset go. He would proceed to blast double one of them. And once that biker was down he would tie him to the back of his own Harley as an insult and drag him in the gravel as an effective way to ensure total pain. Afterwards he would have a celebration snack with a good old bag of Peanut M&M's and a Dr. Pepper.
-Gordon Connell would toy around with the next biker like he was the Cub of the 800 lb. Black Bear that he grappled back in the mid-70's. Either that or toss his butt to the ground like he did to the Russian Defending World Champion back in September.
-David Levitt (a.k.a. Borah) would knee pick the third biker and then proceed to rip his arm or leg off and beat him senseless with it until he cried for his mom (for which his tattoo stands for). And he grew tired of doing that, Levitt would simply eat him to ensure his daily protein intake.
-Jim Blair, Luther Killian, and Tom Herring would tag team in for round 2 and take home any leftovers.
Once everything was said and done everyone would stand back and realize that the three bikers were all extremely disturbed Baylor fans/parents who have always wanted to fight the McCallie coaching staff. And everyone would see that their leader was their very own Mysterious Man with a Gray Pony Tail (I will leave his real name anonymous as not to hurt his feelings, it's all in good nature Dux).
P.S. Looking on from the Grassy Knoll would be Shaak Van Duesen and Yogi Anderson with yellow notepads on clipboards taking intense close notes about each coach's wrestling style as Jim Morgan told them what to write. Oh yeah and one of the little Baylor flower mat girls would be videoing the whole incident.
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As for Bond Davis he is capable of better wrestling he just seemed flat all weekend. And for all you ppl that are stating the truth that Blair pinned Davis at Ryan tourny..... if i am not mistaking Davis was up like 8-2 or something before he got caught.... i do not think sanders could beat Blair, but i do think the leen/lane match would be great....well worth the money paid to watch.
cat -
You are wrong. Blair was up on Davis by some point margin when he did not simply catch him, instead he turned him with a good old fashioned half-nelson and stuck him.
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Look Guys, this d1 vs d2 is so old its got wrinkles. Both divisions crowned state champions saturday. They are all good and deserving or they wouldnt be there. Lets not take away from either by saying they arent truly state champs. There are times when certain weight classes in one or the other are deeper than the other. Who is really best from year to year would change like the weather. Lets all sometime, somewhere, get over this lunacy. You might as well ask how come you have to die. Its just that way so deal with it. Meanwhile their are 28 state champs in this state that shouldnt be watered down by this useless discussion.
messenger,
I was not comparing the individual champions. I was just making a point that D1 is going to lose just about all of their big name guys this year to graduation, which will in turn mean an extremely weak feild will be represented by D1 next year.
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I don't see any Franklin names listed on your post. Davis, Felix, Ortiz, and Konz will be back along with one or two brothers each. Don't count them out as the next great champions.
Davis and Ortiz could be mentioned since they both have been to the finals. However, Davis was destroyed by Blair (McCallie) in the Ryan Tourny (Blair pinned him in 2:37) and Ortiz finished 4th in state. Felix is up and coming but still needs to establish himself. Albeit he did get second at state, he was manhandled by James in 2 periods. Konz has never made it to the big one and was pinned by the Bartlett kid in a minute. Plus he placed 7th at the Ryan tourny, not that good. They are all good wrestlers but have not yet established themseleves as top cmpetition.
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D1 was extremely weak this year. It basically consisted of Bradley and their guns: Gibson, Cordell, West, Blackmon. Soddy and their guns: Lane, James, Campbell. And then a few others that made a good showing at state. D1 will be extremely weak next year as Bradley and Soddy lose all of the listed big name wrestlers above. DII feilded much harder competition this year. Leen, Scott, Manley, Blair, N.Marable, M.Marable, Stark, Dunning, Hiller, Adamson, Johnson, Smith, Geismer, C.Manson, T.Manson, the list goes on. DII will be weaker next year too with much of those names graduating but still has a great number of big name top wrestlers returning.
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BOBJONES1983-
No way Simpson would have ever let Geismar be a four timer. His senior year he would have chased him down if he had too. And do not tell me Geismar would have beaten him because Simpson spanked him at the McCallie Invitational that year.
Maybe so but that was not the point of my post. The point was that that year was an example of how the guidlines under which the TSSAA seeded the tourny had the three best wrestlers wrestling against each other in the first two rounds of the tournament because it was a blind draw. This looks too be the case this year in the DI - 119 bracket as Cordell, Fuller and Speroff (minus Ibriham) are going to be wrestling each other in the first two rounds of the tourny. The point is their (the TSSAA) seeding methods aren't good for the sport in either division and then in DII they are never consistent too much politiking going on and too many of their own guidlines not being followed.
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Or travle to Pennsylvania, like McCallie does every year, the week after Christmas to wrestle against the #1 ranked team in the nation for the last 5 years or so Blair Acadamy and some other top ten teams like North Hampton, St. Marks, Wilson, and a number of others.
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Karelin
so if you don't have a medalist in a paticular weight
noone gets seeded?
surely
you should have a method of seeding
if there is only one medal winner in a wt.
isnt that the case at 103
do you want the best gentleman to wrestle in the first round?
adamson beat Hoang he gets seeded right?
all others should have a blind draw?
yikes
I remember back a few years, 1998 I believe, when Phillip Simpson was a freshman. He was in the 103 weight class, along with Eric Mcnamee (FR), Jeff Geismer (Bay), Daniel Smith (Webb) all tough wrestlers who were either eventual state finalists, champions or at least third placers. The whole weight class was a blind draw. Simpson drew Mcnamee first round then he drew (eventual 3 time state champion) Geismer second round and barely won that one on a real questionable shot off the whistle. Geismer could have been the 4-timer and Simpson only a 3-timer. Then he had Smith (eventual state runner-up) in the semis. His easiest match of the torunament was in the finals where he pinned an MUS kid (Hinson) in 1:15. That shows you that it can happen especially under the magnificent guidlines of the TSSAA!
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This is why head-to-head is the number one criteria. So that they don't have these types of problems that is why Young and Johnson should be seeded #1. My point in this issue has now been confirmed by the TSSAA themselves and some help from Baylor by switching Johnson and Doster. How ironic?
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Was Doster still real sick/injured? Why the late switch?
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Bob, you have a good argument, but I don't see any McCallie people jumping up to help you. I guess they are content to just let it be settled this weekend.
This is a good point, because there are not that many McCallie supporters that use this message board. Why do you think they are always being bashed with no one coming to their support? I am just trying to state the facts. I guess I will let it die I have said all I can say. See yall at the tourny! Good Luck Will Young.
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Very interesting comments so far about 119 lbs. Boby Jones or (Mr. Young) or whoever you are. Don't worry to much. If Young is as good as you guys say he is, then why care where they seed him. If he is the best he will win! Why so much anger about something that doesn't really matter. Isn't Young in the same bracket with Geismer? The kid he already beat! If I were you I would be thankful the brackets fell the way they did.
I have been guessed as Coach Connell and now Mr. Young. Wow, well you are wrong again but I compliment your guessing efforts. I know little Will and Joe's daddy too. And I know that he would have no clue where to find all the information and supporting evidence and reasoning that I have presented. This is true though if he is the best he will win. All that I have been trying to do on this thread is argue that the seedings are not consistent of years past without a change in the criteria.
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BobJones1983,
I stand corrected...again. I guess Mullins does not have as much pull as Simpson.
I guess so matfan. And it is sad that it comes down to that.
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Keep working Bob. Maybe you'll win an argument you have already lost.
That was an intelligent response. I am still waiting on some valid fact-based evidence to support you and the rest of the Baylor crowd's stance on this issue. But it is funny how you can't find any cause it is not there! Don't resort to meager childish respones such as your latter.
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These are the guidlines directly from the Wrestling Handbook at TSSAA.org.
Section V E. Wrestlers who meet the qualification shall be placed in each weight division in the state tournament. The criteria for placing shall be as follows:
1. Head-to-Head Competition during the regular season.
(a)If two oppenents have wrestled each other, the wrestler with more wins against the other will be the higher seed.
(b)If two opponents have the same number of wins against each other, the wrestler with the most recent win will be the higher seed. (Young defeated Geismar last)
2.Returning state champion from the previous year. In the case that more than one state champion is in the same weight class, the wrestler from the higher weightclass will be the higher seed. (Irrelevant here except...)
3.Follow the same procedure as #2 for 2nd place from previous year, 3rd place,...
so 1b should be adjusted to read; the wrestler with the most recent win in head to head, unless.....................there is a returning state placer who was has not wrestled a higher seed but was beaten by someone else and we need to invoke rule 2 as the number one criteria. what a joke!
good point bobjones1983.
usfjim-
Why do you choose to ignore #3? This prevents Young from being seeded ahead of Simpson.
mtnrasslin-
Do you not understand that the ORDER OF CRITERIA = ORDER OF SEEDING. Young draws his #1 seed from the first criteria! Geismar and Simpson draw there 2 / 3 seeds from a combination of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th criteria in that order!
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BobJones1983,
Your Connell, Stark, Kranske example is not the same...they were all medalists.
I still think my example of Keppy is more in tune as to why they seeded Simpson higher this year...relevant to past medal performances.
Young has not placed at state, so he cannot be seeded above Simpson. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the interpretation of the ruling.
matfan-
Once again your comments have error. Stark was not a returning medalist here is Stark's bracket from 2002...
http://www.tssaa.org/2001Champions/StateWr...isionII/140.htm
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Sorry, I meant to say that you seem to disagree with both me and the TSSAA. They must not see your facts as such.
Well they saw my "facts as such" for those other 7 examples! Sadly they (cough...cough..Ronnie Carter) are trying not to see my facts in this one example.
usfjim-
Thank you for looking at the facts!
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Apparently. But the difference is I have facts supporting my argument.
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Lets see, last year Geismar places 2nd and Simpson 3rd. Young splits with Geismar with the loss being a major. However, Young wins the last match thereby getting a seed ahead of Geismar. With no head to head between Simpson and Young, Simpson gets seeded ahead because he placed last year and Young did not.
Not only does this follow the TSSAA guidelines but it is a realistic, common sense seeding.
mtnrasslin-
Go look at all 7 of the examples I presented as factual evidence in my post before yours of this very same scenario. It is easy to say "it follows TSSAA guidelines" but I have presented the actual guidelines and it DOES NOT follow them nor does it follow any other way that this has been handled by the TSSAA in the past.
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bhs78-
That was Whit Dunning (FR) that beat Geismar at the McCallie Tournament not Simpson. Go ahead and read my above post and two or three of my other posts on this thread to understand why Simpson and Young not wrestling has nothing to do with the seeding. Am I the only person on this thread that reads the facts and presents them instead of throwing made up matches, rules, and comments out there! No offense but the facts are there in clear print! Can no one read or comprehend them? Or maybe is it just that they don't want to? Is the truth too hard to bear?
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BobJones1983,
My short term memory is not what it used to be. I will change my comments to read...Keppy got the #2 seed based on his 2nd place finish from the 8th grade. It's been a long day at work, and when I check this site, I do not have time to research everything...thanks for keeping me straight!
My point being, Keppy did indeed get his seeding based on what he placed 4 years earlier! That takes us back to this year...Young cannot be seeded ahead of Simpson since they have not wrestled head to head and Simpson's past performances.
By the way...I am NOT Matt Provanzano, and I am not related to him either, but I do know him!
No because in Baucom's case there was no one who beat a medalist head-to-head. Now look at a different past scenario with a McCallie wrestler. Last year Lee Connell (McC) was seeded 2nd to Adam Stark (FR) who beat him head-to-head so he was seeded 1st. In that same weight there was another returning medalist named John Kranske (ND). He never wrestled Stark during the regular season however he was not seeded above him. Do you think it would have been fair to Stark if they seeded Kranske #1 above him just because they hadn't wrestled each other? No it wouldn't have been the right way to do it according to the guidelines of seeding.
Here are some more examples you can go look at on the TSSAA website.
(1)2003-215
(2)2002-119,130,145,171,189
At 189 in 2002. Rudolph (McC) was seeded second because he defeated Calloway(ND) who would have been the second seed. And he jumped ahead of three previous year medalists who he had not wrestled!
The point is there is no argument about it the seeds have always been done the same until now. The real seeds should be once again:
1)Young
2)Geismar
3)Simpson
152 from overton
in Wrestling Mat
Posted
Yeah, he wrestled like Ware too. He had the strong hips and quick go behind off each of Fuller's shots. That is how Ware won the NCAAs, with that quick go behind off of his opponents shots.