oneblindref

DB vs SH Thur night at DB

Any big region 1 matches coming up this week? Both duel and individual?

Seems like Bradley had a couple of Ivy league wrestlers. Didn't Josh Patton get back into it at Navy. Cornell doesn't have any tn wtestlers? No more at West Point? Bundy?

Tyler Johnson redshirt freshman this year at Newberry

TDA, you may be confusing two different issues. The wrestlers should have been blown out of bounds at the :24 second mark since a supporting part of each wrester (shoulder(s) of the bottom wrestler and the feet of the top wrester) are out of bounds. One note here, it only takes 1 supporting point of each wrestler to be out of bounds for them to be out so it could have been one shoulder and one foot but here it was both shoulders and both feet.

 

Now to comment on the pin itself since wrestling was allowed to continue. The supporting points (shoulders) of the bottom wrestler are in bounds so wrestling is still in bounds. It does not matter that the top wrestler is completely out of bounds. As refereneced above, you have to have one supporting point of BOTH wrestlers out of bounds for wrestling to be stopped as out of bounds.

 

 

In a nutshell, the pin itself was fine. Wrestling action should have been called out of bounds at the :24 second mark.

Xbody, if you go back and watch the video at 22- 25 seconds in slow motion you will see the wrestler b( bottom) feet (both) are inbounds, while wrestler A Is spinning back inbounds wrestlers B's hips hit inbounds. Then A puts wrestler B on his shoulders inbounds. As quick as this all happened, I think the official made the right call.

Oneblindref,

 

Can you reference where in the rulebook or casebook that it states that the supporting points would transition to the feet in this case?

 

Just wondering if that is a judgement or if it is actually covered somewhere. That would probably help shed some light on it. This certainly doesn't seem to match logic on where the supporting points would be considered and I am sure is where xbody's disagreement stems from.

From the case book:

*5.15.2 SITUATION A: Wrestler B is in a near-iall situation so the shoulders and scapulas are outside the boundary line. A is still inbounds and has a deep half nelson with an inside crotch pinning situation. In (a), A attempts to bring B back into the inbounds area. In (, A makes no attempt to bring B inbounds. RULING: in (a) or ( B cannot be pinned nor can near fall points be awarded because part of the shoulders and scapula of B are not on or inside the boundary line. if there were an attempt on the part of the offensive wrestler to bring the opponent back inbounds as in (a), wrestling will continue. However, in ( when there is no attempt to bring B inbounds, the referee has no alternative but to declare an out of bounds and wrestling will be resumed from the starting position on the mat.

5.15.2 SITUATION B: Wrestler A is successful in turning Wrestler B in a pin¬ning situation near the edge of the mat so the shoulders of B are touching out of bounds although the supporting parts of A remain inhounds. In this and similar situations, what are the guidelines concerning the amount of time the offensive wrestler has for pulling the opponent back inbounds? RULING: There are no spe¬cific time guidelines, and the decision of whether to stop the match and declare an out of bounds rests entirely with the referee. The rules require the referee to permit the offensive wrestler an opportunity to bring the opponent back inbounds. if, in the referee's judgment, the offensive wrestler is making progress, wrestling will be permitted to continue. Only when the referee observes no progress is being made or no attempt to pull the defensive wrestler back inbounds, will wrestling be stopped and the match restarted as if an out of bounds occurred from the starting position. COMMENT: Many coaches and ref¬erees are looking for a specific number of seconds as well as the number of inch¬es in other situations upon which to base their decisions as to whether to award points or stop the match. Because of the infinite number of combinations devel¬oping in wrestling, it is impossible to assign a specific time and distance to every different situation. Referees must, through experience and application of good judgment, make decisions upon the action in each particular situation.

The fact that he bridged does not change his supporting parts. He is still in near fall critera thus his supporting parts are his shoulders NOT his feet.

Once his sholders are out of bounds, he is not in near fall critera, so the shoulders are no longer supporting parts.

On the contrary...it was one foot not two and the last i've read one foot doesn't constitute staying in bounds. You don't award a takedown if "one foot" is inbounds..it requires both. I didn't post the video...If you read the rest of the posts...they were questioning the call and wanted feedback from others. I think the poster was trying to get a general concensus on the call.

Go back and look at the video it was clearly 2 feet in, and at the same time the bottom wrestler was going out the top wrestler was bringing him back in. NFL refs would like to have video that clear.

Anotherref...of course Trent didn't question you..He was raised not to question authority.. by me, his mother!! And my son doesn't make excuses..thats the reason he smiled and said thank you. Trent was sure the pin was good and no out of bounds called because he thought Goldsteins feet were in bounds. The question was made by me, and after reviewing the video in the car on the way home Trent questioned it also so I asked someone to review it and thats what they posted. Every referee doesn't call things the same..that was evident this past weekend. I can respect that too. However, this was a region championship that should have been watched really closely, regardless of the fast and furious activity.

 

The reason for this post is stated above...were they out of bounds? Thats the question..not who won or lost.

GOOD CALL! When the bottom wrestler bridged out of bounds his feet clearly stayed inbounds which became his supporting parts, at the same time top wrestler came back in putting shoulders of bottom wrestler inbounds, CLEARLY A GOOD CALL! You might want to rethink posting video when it shows that you are wrong, just a suggestion.

Regardless of the top wrestler spinning around the fact is..they were out of bounds and it should have been brought back to the center

GOOD CALL! When the bottom wrestler bridged out of bounds his feet clearly stayed inbounds which became his supporting parts, at the same time top wrestler came back in putting shoulders of bottom wrestler inbounds, CLEARLY A GOOD CALL! You might want to rethink posting video when it shows that you are wrong, just a suggestion.

?

A legendary wrestling official, a hall of fame sports writer and state champions are among the eight people who will be inducted into the Tennessee Chapter of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame, Friday, March 2 at the Doubletree Hotel in Chattanooga.

 

The state champions tandem of Lynn Goss (East Ridge, late 1960s) and the late Frank Bryant (Knox. Karns, Outstanding American award) go in with a pair of officials who have made a name for themselves calling state tournament finals – the late Bill “Doc†Hodges and Walt “Tater†Vineyard.

 

Chattanooga Times Free Press assistant sports editor Ward Gossett has covered most every sport across the state in more than four decades, especially high school and college wrestling.

 

Assistant coaches are an important factor in a team’s success and Soddy Daisy's Ashley Brooks is one of the best in the state. He headed the programs at City High School and Lookout Valley before joining Trojan head coach Steve Henry 14 years ago.

 

The Chattanooga wrestling community is blessed with some of the most knowledgeable and energetic volunteers in the nation. Two of the best are Roy and Marty Varner.

 

They have supported and worked with the UTC wrestling program since the early 1970s, as well being a major player in organizing the high school state tournaments and various national and international events.

 

Tickets: Hall of fame tickets are $50 … checks payable to the National Wrestling Hall of Fame … mail to P.A. Bowler 109 Mansker Park Dr. Hendersonville, Tenn. 37075

 

Class of 2012 – Tenn. Chapter, National Wrestling Hall of Fame

Ashley Brooks

Has coached wrestling for 30 years … head coach at Chattanooga City (1983-86) and Lookout Valley (1987-1998) ... has been an assistant coach to Steve Henry at Soddy Daisy for the past 14 years (1999-present) … coached two-time state champion and five-time state qualifier, Tim Voiles (202 wins) at Lookout Valley … also coached Lookout Valley’s first state champion; Dusty Griffith (1990) …

... member of the Soddy Daisy coaching staff for state championship teams in the duals (2002, 2007) and traditional (2006, 2007) tournaments and for the inaugural girls state duals champions in 2008 …

Region 3Assisant Coach of the Year (2001-02) , awarded by the National Wrestling Coaches Assoc. Scholastic Division … USA Wrestling Bronze Level National Coaches Certification, 1988 … Region 4 Coach of the Year, five times while at Lookout Valley (1986-88-90-91-96) … USA Wrestling Team Tennessee Freestyle Coach, 1986-89

 

Lynn Goss

Two-time state champion at East Ridge, 1966-67… member of Pioneers state championship teams those same two years and served as co-captain as a senior kin 1967 … also coached East Ridge to a pair of state team titles, 1983-84 … first in Tennessee to win three titles (individual and team member and coach) … area and state coach of the year … coached Red Bank, East Ridge and McCallie to junior high/middle school championships … and coached several years on the elementary school level … a wrestling official in the 1970s …

Wrestled collegiately at Pembroke College (N.C.) and Tennessee at Chattanooga … had the highest grade point average (3.335) among all UTC varsity athletes in 1971 …

… East Ridge nominee for Fellowship Christian Athlete of the Year in 1967 … continues to work with FCA at McCallie … Currently, is the McCallie Middle School Principal nominee … fifth McCallie staff member and/or wrestler to be selected for the national wrestling hall of fame following Gordon Connell, Jim Morgan, Jim Glasser and Luther Killian.

Halls of Fame: Greater Chattanooga Sports Hall of Fame

 

Ward Gossett

Hall of fame sports writer and assistant sports editor for the Chattanooga Times Press … has been a sports writer in Chattanooga for more than 40 years covering high school and college wrestling, high school, college and NFL football and various other sports ...

… has published a magazine (Big Orange Illustrated) and authored a book (The Volunteers Handbook) …

A graduate of the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, Gossett has received awards from the National Amateur Softball Association and the local Golden Gloves association ... 2011 A.F. Bridges “Contributor of the Year†presented by the TSSAA

 

Bill “Doc†Hodges (posthumously)

Local wrestling official for nearly 50 years … also was a football official for 44 years … the Chattanooga area officials organization gives an annual college scholarship in his name – the William H. Hodges Jr. Memorial Scholarship – to a rising college freshman from this area … Hodges wrestled at Notre Dame and University of Chattanooga … City champion while at Notre Dame and was the UC team captain … teacher, coach and school principal in the Chattanooga area for 40 years … known for his expertise, fairness, gentleness and integrity in the classroom, on the mat and in life … passed away Aug. 6, 1998 .. earned a bachelor’s degree (physical education) and a master’s in education from the University of Chattanooga …

Halls of Fame: Greater Chattanooga Sports Hall of Fame (1995)

 

Roy and Marty Varner

Avid wrestling volunteers for nearly 40 years … Roy and Marty have been major players in the planning and set up of countless wrestling tournaments and camps on the high school, college and international levels ... this includes the TSSAA state tournaments, the Southern Conference championship, two World Cup events (1993, 1995) and USA Wrestling training camps prior to the 1995 World Championship and the 1996 Olympics … also involved with the 1996 South Regional Olympic Trials and Southeast Junior Regional Championship as well as the Men’s FILA Junior World and Women’s FILA Junior/Cadet National Championship (2002) and the Men’s FILA Junior National Championship and World Team Trials (2003) ...

they have served on UTC Wrestling Old Timers Committee founding committee … … member, Chattanooga Take Down Club board of directors …

 

Walt “Tater†Vineyard

Twenty-five years as a wrestling official … has officiated in 21 TSSAA state traditional championships (beginning in 1991), officiating in the finals 20 years … has officiated in nine TSSAA state duals championships, officiating in the finals eight years ... An NCAA official for 17 years; 1990-2006 ... officiated three Southern Conference championships (2001-02-03) ... also officiated dual meets involving schools from the SoCon, ACC, Big 10 and Big 12.

Wrestled at Bradley Central (1984-86) for coach Turner Jackson … district and region champion and state qualifier as a junior and senior … team captain and most valuable wrestlers as a senior … wrestled three years for Bradley Junior High and was team most valuable wrestler as a seventh and ninth grader ... won his first match as a seventh grader with only one day of wrestling experience ... an honors student, graduating 24th out of a senior class of 526 students with a 96.5 average… head coach of the Knox. Karns Takedown Club for three years while in college … earned an electrical engineering degree from the U. of Tennessee (Knoxville) in 1991

Awards: 2003 Official of the Year from the Chattanooga Wrestling Official’s Assoc. … A.F. Bridges Official of the Year award for 2009-10 from the TSSAA

 

Outstanding American Award

Lt. Col. Frank Bryant (posthumously)

A state champion at Knoxville Karns High School in 1991, Lt. Col. Frank Bryant Jr. died in a combat mission at the Kukul International Airport, April 27, 2011 … he was 37 …

… was deployed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff Afghanistan-Pakistan Hands Program as an air advisor to the 438th Air Expeditionary Advisor Group … recipient of several military medals including the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Air Force Combat Action Medal and Meritorious Service Medal ..

Two-time state medalist at Karns and member of the National Honor Society … wrestled for the Air Force Academy … 1995 team captain and team Outstanding Wrestler …

Was a decorated F-16 pilot with 3,047 flying hours, with 121 of which were in combat.

Earned his Jump Wings, Senior Pilot Wings and a Master’s Degree in business administration and management …

Recipient of the 2008 Air Force Air-to-Ground Fighter Pilot Instructor of the Year award … Top Fighter Pilot Instructor in the US Air Force, receiving the Gen. William R. Looney III Award.

 

contact B.B. Branton at william.branton@comcast.net

Congratulations Tater!

the ref said that it was because while the blackman guy was on his back locked in a cradle, he hit the mt. juliet guy in the face with his elbow. What this looked like to us was simply a kid who got locked up in a cradle and was rocking and flaling (spelling???) to get out. Maybe the back of the kids arm did hit the guy, maybe it did not, but for sure there was NO flagrant misconduct call. Flagrant misconduct calls are to be reserved for the obvious misconduct because once you make the call, it is game over for the wrestler and a 9 point swing for the team in the match. a ref does not pull this trigger easily, he does not make this call when it is not black and white, he does not make this call when there is judgement left, and in 15 seconds there was not even time for a verbal warning. The ref, i found out his name is kyle, made it about him simply because he made this call with 0.6 seconds left and there was no need to make it. the foul was not flagrant if at all, the mt. juliet kid was not hurt nor had a bloody nose nor even complaining, he had no reason to go all the way in a match that mt. juliet was going to win by 6 or 7 points, but he did, which cost blackman the whole match, cost the wrestler the season, and this ref was not thinking about the kid, and it's always about the kid. the call was just so uncecessary and was a normal attempt by a kid to fight off his back while in a cradle that we have all seen a 1000 times. i hope this helps, it is not easy to desribe all that happened in words. and, i am a guy who NEVER has posted about the ref's on coachT, i usually just take there call for what it is and move on, but this one was terribe and it cost both the team and the wrestler ALOT!

You have it all wrong it was not an elbow, it was a punch. The ref's name was not Kyle, nor was the the Assistant's name. Both the Ref and his Assistant agreed it was Flagrant Misconduct. Case Closed

Awh! they invited the baby out to play haha. C'mon now 2blLeg everybody knows that Frog Horn-Leg Horn are much to cowardly to do such a thing as that, esp after Lucas already got taken out via a headbutt at Maury haha.

Let's see here who the coward is............?????? That would be you, the one hiding behind the screen name, to scared to come out and play with the big boys. Come on, it's time for you to put up or shut up. Be a man, and put a name with that "smart mouth".

P.S. It was not at Maury it was at Jefferson, if you are going to be a "Smart A.." get your facts straight.

As i said the gods have spoken!

 

Go to Tssaa.org and you can find the info about becoming an official there.

tnsmokediver, we might as well give it up, I guess you have to be a former coach, that has never put on the stripes, "to know it all".

tnsmokediver, I would still like an explination on how at the 145 finals you called a takedown. I don't believe anyone in the gym other than you thought that was anything close to a takedown. There was no control, and your explination was weak. Cost our kid the match. That was the only call I questioned that involved our kids. I can't comment on the others but that call was a bit ridiculous especially in a tight match in the finals. Just sayn I believe we were screwed in that match.

Only the West fans and some uninformed fans, thought it was the wrong call, all the officials agreed. The other wrestler had a cradle locked up with the West kid, hands on the mat. That is "text book" control. Get you a rule book and a case book and look it up. How can you say there was no control. No one got screwed, GOOD CALL, End of discussion.

Hahaha I bet their last names start with C and end with dale

Dude, I don't know who you are or what hole you crawled out of, but the world would be a better place if you crawled back in it. This is a wrestling board to talk about wrestling not your personal problem with me, my son or my brother.

Oh Stanley,I dont have a personal problem with yal! You and your son are just perfect examples of a sub-par official with an over inflated ego lol.

Lets make a deal Clouseau..."I'll crawl back in my hole" when ever you take off the stripes. Because the wrestling world would be a much better place without you.

 

P.S. Is there not some sort of hidden clause saying that you cant be a ref if you get beat by girls? hahaha

You made it personal when you called us by name. You must be "the girl" since you are not man enough to show yourself. You do not know me at all, if you think I have an inflated ego. Your the one that has the inflated ego, because you think you are the greatest "official" from 100 feet away. One of the best coaches I know, apologized to me and some other officials for everything he ever said about our officiating after he put on the stripes. It's always easer from the stands, come on, put on the stripes, show us how great you are.

Hahaha I bet their last names start with C and end with dale

Dude, I don't know who you are or what hole you crawled out of, but the world would be a better place if you crawled back in it. This is a wrestling board to talk about wrestling not your personal problem with me, my son or my brother.

never mind

Had the same screen name since 2003. Look and see , that's what wrong now people talking about things that they don't know anything about!!!!!!

 

Kilowatt

 

Then who is FHU423......? Any ideas?

Kind of funny Kilowatt had not posted anything in months till these post. Oh where or where is FHU423?

Hahaha umm news flash, but it seems you have yet to realize that you and your son get alot of negative attention.

Laugh all you want, but you are WRONG, for the most part we get positive feedback from (the ones that count) coaches, other officials, and fans that know what they are talking about. (those that come to you Man to Man) It's those that hind behind message boards that are negative.

Its a good thing for you that I dont work for TSSAA cuz you nor your son would be officials.

Now why cant we all just get along. Remember it was just last year this region made national news when a fan went after an official.

That was my son that this guy is talking about. It was not because of a bad call. It was a guy that anger problems, that would not leave the gym. Because he was angry at the coach from the opposing team.

Its a good thing for you that I dont work for TSSAA cuz you nor your son would be officials.

Well! You seam to have the advantage here, you know who I am, but I don't know who you are. I have an idea why don't you but on the stripes next year and join us, we are always looking for good officials, and since you seam to be an "expert", you should make a good one.

No wonder DB thinks they are so good. They go to doo-doo tournaments and take home first, then regions and state roll around and they are left scratching their head haha. Sounds painfully familiar to football. The "Tribe"? lol...of what!? choke artists? haha.

FHU423, Do you have anything good to say, I have read many of your post, and everyone is negative. Including your comments about our officiating in Region1. Good thing you don't work for TSSAA!

Lou Hoban Morristown East held the most wins in Region 1 when he retired in late 90s. was passed by Coach Brimer before his retirement. Coach Price at SHHS is probably up there close to Coach Brimer if not more. Anybody have any actual states on this?

Two from Coach Brimer:

 

"If you would hit one recognizable move, I could help you."

 

To a kid that lost the heartbreak match at the state tournament:

"The consequences of your actions are your on worst punishment."

Another one from Coach Brimer:

To his wrestler for not wrestling aggressively: "Just invite him over to watch the Supper Bowl, make him a sandwich, and call him you life long buddy"

I was reffing the match, I almost sallowed my whistle for laughing.