conspirator

No one ever said they can't use it back, they just don't. Kinda like the old time Mccallie saying, "Born on a riverbank, raised on a log. Looks like a redneck, smells like a hog. Sewie Baylor Sewie." It's a rivalry. Anyway, I'm excited to see these two teams battle it out. Any more information on the red team's injured wrestlers?

 

PS. There will be 40 tickets sold at the visitor's gate @4pm tomorrow. Match @6.

On a serious note. Is the visitors side the entrance where the trophys and stuff are?

The last time I spoke with my Red wearing buddy and he didnt sound very psotive on the injured wrestlers. Based on the tone of his voice I wouldnt count on any of the injured wrestling Friday. He seemed pretty worried about the outcome of the match so I would say they are not wrestling.

Whats wrong with them? Those would be fighting words where I come from.

No one ever said they can't use it back, they just don't. Kinda like the old time Mccallie saying, "Born on a riverbank, raised on a log. Looks like a redneck, smells like a hog. Sewie Baylor Sewie." It's a rivalry. Anyway, I'm excited to see these two teams battle it out. Any more information on the red team's injured wrestlers?

 

PS. There will be 40 tickets sold at the visitor's gate @4pm tomorrow. Match @6.

Thats a good one! Ill have to come up with a good little saying for the Baylor crowd since they dont seem to have much to say about the the school behind the crack house. Those Baylor people dont have much intestinal fortitude if they let their blue wearing rivals speak of them in this manner without some kind of witty comeback. I would like to see this match up just for the atmosphere if nothing else. Nothing makes me laugh harder than a gym full of people trying to act more uppidy than their opponenets. Its not so much about wrestling but more about which students can come up with the best cheers. Of course if I was McCallie I would try to come up with something as well since the Red leggers obviously own them as of late in most sports and the Baylor campus is so much nicer. Oh yeah, they also have girls. Come to think of it if I was a McCallie supporter I would be depressed also. I couldnt imagine having to go to school knowing we couldnt beat our biggest rival in anything and while Im stuck at a school fenced in for security measures and looking at a bunch of guys they are having picnics along the riverbank with pretty young ladies.

Settle down Beavis.......everyone knows that the wal-mart reference is old forum slang and no harm was meant.

lol... so the blue can use slang against their rival but their rival cant use any back? Your probably one of those guys that thinks everyone should get a medal too arent you? Just out of curiosity, not that I would ever need one but where do you purchase your pocket protectors?

http://bcove.me/uzwwnnp2

 

Attached is a link to McCallie's Varsity Wrestling website where head coach Mike Newman previews Friday's match. Enjoy!

 

Nashwrestling- I heard the match was sold out by Monday afternoon believe it or not. Although, a Baylor alum told me that 50 tickets have been saved for the general public and will go on sale Friday at 4pm. All just talk though. Anyone from the school behind Wal Mart have any exact details?

I tried to get tickets from my connection and he said the remaining tickets were sold. He said McCallie usually returns 30-40 tickets and those are sold at the visitors gate. I dont think I would drive from Nashville unless you can get there early. The verbal sparing from both sides always cracks me up but one thing I cant understand is why you refer to Baylor as the school behind Wal Mart. Have you been to their campus? Its something like a thousand acres with who knows how much riverfront property and wooded areas. I think that shows a little jealousy by picking a business a couple of miles away. Lets see... what is within 2 miles of McCallie? Lets make it a contest. If Baylor is the school behind Wal Mart then McCallie is the school behind ????????? Everybody chime in with their answer and we can pick a winner. I submit McCallie is the school behind the drive through daiquiri stand.

Well, I spoke with my friend from the valley of the red leggers today. He said its not looking too good for a return of the aforementioned injured wrestlers. In fact he said there may be another starter out as well but he wouldn't divulge who it was. He said three of the injured 100 % can not return although they gave it a valiant effort. He thinks the 4th injured is probably 60-70 % not going to wrestle and the newly injured is 50/50 at best. I am moving my prediction to McCallie by 20.

I spoke to a Baylor dad and he didnt fell many of the kids would be back. He said Powell is out for sure and probably Sutherland as well. He said Holloway has been drilling but no live wrestling. He did say Holloway made it clear he wasnt cutting weight this year and they adjusted their line up for this so 145 seems likely. He said Sutherland has been drilling for a few days but he didnt think he would be ready by Friday if at all this year. He said Houston does have an injury and hasnt been practicing but given this is the McCallie match he wouldnt be suprised for Houston to weigh in at 160 and they bump accordingly. Prediction.. No Powell and no Sutherland and maybe 50/50 on Holloway and Houston wrestling. McCallie wins by 10.

The NFHS just took the kids that were wrestling and put an equal number in each weight class. That's all. They didn't do any thinking past that point. If more kids were wrestling in the middle, then you would see another weight class there. If more kids weighed less that 106 then you would see that weight class drop as well. It's just where the kids are weighing in.

That is not true. The most populated weight class in the country was 135-140 and they did away with it and added a bigger one where you have to beg kids to wrestle. They did studies and thats a fact. Look in the national tournaments and see how many kids are in the weight classes in the middle compared to 195 and 220. look and see how many kids you have own your on team at those weights. You will always have back ups at those middle weights and usually quite a few but your lucky if you can talk some football player into wrestling in those bigger ones. They claimed they looked at the average size of high school people. They didnt take into consideration wrestling has always attracted a larger number of smaller people that cant compete as well in size dominated sports like football.

Who makes these decisions? It was 40 degrees at match time.

CC even though things have happened the way they did... I hope you aren't retiring like bcb I dont think I could bare another legend to walk away just when I'm getting started... I would hate to stop seeing you and your lovely greek god curly hair around the wrestling scene.What product do you use? I'm A 3rd Jewish but wasn't blessed with the hair instead a bald head and a hairy back and belly button.... No Jewish James Bond here...

Thats too much man love for the wrestling boards. Kind of like Cc and Bcb used to spout off to each other on here. Hmmm... might this new poster be bcb or cc? Awful lot of ego stroking going on for it not to be.

First off the new weights are idiotic but its not the 106 lbers getting screwed its guys in the middle. They did away with the most populated weight class in the country which makes no sense at all. As far as 106, while it may not be beneficial to everyone it has made more teams be able to field the lightest weight. If you are that small you are definitley in the minority and not the majority. Other weights wrestle people much bigger than themselves. Also even if you are a small 106 more than likely you are wrestling another freshman or even an 8th grader in some instances so you arent at a huge disadvantage. The few 106 lbers sthat are upper classman are usually not as physically developed as other upper classmen and thus the reason they are at 106 . So in essence, its much easier for a freshman to wrestle 106 at 95 lbs than it is for a freshman to wrestle 135 or up against a senior.

I wonder where he will end up next? Hasnt he been to a lot of different schools?

Apples for apples. And what exactly was written all over the post that was replied to? I do appreciate all of the attention, especially this time of year when interests are usually on area and state. Those who need to know the facts are in the loop so meddle all you want with whom ever you want, its all good. Just let me know what all of you self-appointed wrestling 'gods' come up with regarding my family, I'm sure it will be interesting. Should we start a new thread or is everyone content with using the ones we've hijacked. Must have struck some nerves with our return, get over it and get better is all I can say.

I hope that wasnt directed at me. Im on your side big guy.

Arrogance is written all over this post no matter how you twist it. And Soms, if you would like to know the answer, ask the Gordon Lee coach. Sounds as if he has been pretty vocal about the whole situation.

I would accuse you of being Soms but you actually make coherent sentences. I think rlwest post has arrogance all over it because it was intentional due to Soms original statement. I do have one question though and I hope rlwest40 doesnt jump on me too. I've read several times that they moved "back" to Cleveland. I thought he was from dade County originally and then moved to Gordon lee before going to Cleveland? I would take anything that comes out of the Gordon lee network with a grain of salt. They arent known for being the most above board group out there by any stretch of the imagination.

You are now my new favorite poster on this board. Good luck the rest of the season and post season.

Sommers has now gained a new enemy. Is that suprising?

I have been a long time follower of the board and felt tonight might be a great opportunity for me to start posting. I understand Soddy might have been missing a few guys, but WHAT A WIN FOR SUCH A YOUNG BAYLOR TEAM!

 

 

BAYLOR 35, SODDY DAISY 33

Match started at 160 Pounds

106 Michael Murphy B pinned Jacob McClure 1:34

113 Chase Payne SD dec. Jack Reynolds 7-3

120 Jacob Stevens SD won by forfeit

126 Tucker Russo SD won by forfeit

132 Nick Standefer B pinned Joshua Stiles 1:47

138 Brandon Brunner B pinned Austin Williamson 1:40

145 Gage Richmond SD pinned Turner Troxel :33

152 Turbo Smith SD pinned Aidon Garron 1:47

160 Bryson Popp B dec. Branndon Hunt 3-2

170 Ryan Parker B won by technical fall over Hunter Maynor 5:50

182 Garrett Alexander SD pinned Winston Cooper 1:31

195 Emory Norred B dec. Tyler Hixson 10-3

220 Jon Schmissrauter B dec. Luke Reno 6-3

285 Will Thomas B dec. Cody Grant 5-3

 

Keep an eye on these boys as February rolls around... Coach Nelson is pulling some of his horses out of the stable. From what I heard in the stands tonight you can expect to see a Baylor team with Canada back at 113, Powell 120, Holloway (yes Cole...got a great report last week) at 138, Sutherland at 145, and Clements bumping all the way to 182. With these five back in the lineup look for a young Baylor team to give CBHS all they can handle come February.

GO BIG RED! And congrats Coach Nelson on the impressive win tonight!

That is a good win. Im no Soddy expert but who did they have out besides their 113 and Blake Henry? Was the wrestler at 132 the new starter with Deckleman gone? Im not so sure about those horses being out of the stable. I heard from someone close with the program a couple of those guys are 100% out for the year and maybe all of them. I also think those weights are wrong for some of them. Maybe a little Baylor propoganda just to put some worry in the minds of others?

Did Soddy have their full line up? I cant see Baylor winning with 5 people out unless Soddy had some out as well.

ghouse:

 

For the record, if you wanna stick strictly to the facts then do a little bit more research in the future because what you claim as facts in your rebuttal is false, namely that the Osceola tournament had only 2 nationally ranked wrestlers compared to 14 or whatever you said it was in Kansas City. I didn't know this would turn into a debate when I said that both tournaments were very comparable based on what I've seen at the tournaments but since you felt the need to research the 'facts' to make an arguement then let me provide some facts that you left out somehow while belittling the Osceola tournament. They're both great tournaments as I said originally, and IMO I believe as a whole they are both very comparable in strength and depth. Agree or disagree, we don't need a full deposition.

 

Kissimmi – Osceola Tournament Nationally Ranked Wrestlers (based on current USA rankings)

1. #1 Baldwin (KO)
    
   
2. #8 J. Prince (PH)
    
   
3. #8 Hartman (PH)
    
   
4. #9 Shipley (LHP)
    
   
5. #9 Ross (SP)
    
   
6. #10 Grimes (HI)
    
   
7. #18 Ramirez (SD)
    
   
8. #20 Spengler (LHP)
    
   
9. #21 Dominguez (KO)
    
   
10. #21 Herrera (SP)
     
    
11. #24 Hall (STA)
     
    
12. #26 West (CLV)
     
    
13. #28 C. Prince (PH)
     
    
14. #29 Pagan (KO)
     
    
15. HM Petrone (LHP)
    

...and to repley to an another post, the Beast, Ironman, and Super 32 are at a different level than EITHER of these tournaments.

That looks like grade level rankings and not true national rankings. Im not saying this isnt a huge compliment and achievement but true national rankins are all grade levels combined and I think thats what ghouse was listing at Kc. Without looking them all up I would say it would be safe to bet there were 50+ kids at kc that would be ranked in the grade level rankings.

Thats my point. Top ranked Collins Hill lost to unranked Osceola (who lost a 2 point dual to Baylor), South Dade, and Camden County yet placed 2nd at the KC tournament with several ranked teams attending including nationally ranked CBHS and yes their line up was pretty much the same. Unranked teams can match up and beat ranked teams, happens all the time. There's several unranked teams that can beat those teams ranked in the 30's and 40's. Only reason they are ranked is because of exposure and submitting results for consideration. The KC and Osceola tournaments are very comparable, and thats the gold bracket at KC not the silver bracket that many end up wrestling in. KC tournament isnt a flomajor this year anymore like it has been in the past. Still a tough tournament though.

 

Another example: unranked Collins Hill only took 12 wrestlers to KC this year and finished 2 spots below ranked CBHS and Collins Hill is ranked around 5th or 6th now in the state of Georgia after losing Bremen. Also, look at unranked Jefferson from Georgia, I believe they placed at the Clash this year so they gain exposure and are awarded a ranking and another team drops out of the ranking. Happens all the time.

 

All I'm saying is there's a huge difference in top 25 or 30 teams and 30 to 50th ranked teams.

Yes, I agree. All of those teams you listed were probably just out of contention for rankins so they werent that far behind teams ranked in the 35-50 range. I was refering to top ranked teams 1-20 or so and especially top 10. Those teams are usually pretty legit from my experience.

That's your opinion but like I said I've been to both tournaments. The cougar inv. Is a well known tournament in florida and you can check results and seeds and see for yourself that collins hill varsity was there not their jv. Osceola and south dade and springstead and st thomas are all very tough teams and have all held national rankings in the past. Osceola won their pool at kyle maynard last year (I happened to be at this one the past couple years too) and then lost a 2 point dual against baylor. Brandon was 1st then collins hill then baylor and soddy for 3rd and 4th. Osceola only had 1 loss there so I wouldn't say they didn't do too good just a different format than a tournament which is what I was talking about. Just shows another example of how close unranked teams are even with ranked teams. That and the fact that the kc tournament and osceola are pretty even were the points I was trying to make earlier.

There is a huge difference in top ranked teams and non ranked teams. Osceola lost to a Baylor team that was depleted with injuries and not their normal Baylor teams of the past. baylor was no where near a top team on the national rankings. Now there may be some unranked teams close to some teams ranked in the lower echelons but the top ranked teams are there for a reason.

Just basing it off what I personally saw the past few years at both tournaments. Say what you want but a lot of times the only difference in teams ranked in the 25 to 50 range and some of the better unranked teams is exposure. There were many nationally ranked wrestlers at this event and this was the deepest tournament in Florida.

 

Osceola would probably win against 5 to 7 out of those 9 ranked teams at KC. The top 4 teams at Osceola could compete very well at KC. Some of those ranked teams are still holding on to previous year's rankings and slowly dropping.teams ranked in the 30-50 range move up and down and in and out of the rankings a lot cuz its just not as nailed down as the top 20 to 25 teams.

 

Look at last year, nationally ranked Collins Hill Georgia takes 2nd at KC behind nationally ranked Bettendorf, Iowa with all of those other ranked teams in the tournament and places 5th at the Cougar Inv in Florida behind runner-up and unranked Camden from Georgia, #3 and unranked Osceola and #4 and unranked South Dade. There was only one ranked team at the tournament at that was Brandon and they won it.

 

Not taking away from KC tournament because I liked it, just saying after attending both they are very comparable in talent and depth despite how many nationally ranked teams are at each one, it can be misleading.

I would have to say the two arent comparable at all. Im not sure about the tournament you were refering to in Florida last year where Osceola placed highr than Collins HIll but they both wrestled at the Kyle Maynard duals and I dont think osceola did all that well. Collins Hill sometimes sends their jv to lesser tournaments and this may have been the case at the Florida tournament you are refering to. That being said... I think Cleveland will dominate the state duals and individual states. They seem to have everyone helthy now and clicking on all cylinders. I dont think anyone will be whitin 20 pts in a dual and 50 pts at the individuals.

Here are the results from the 2012 state. The 2011 state results looked pretty much the same with the Red raiders winning by a larger margin. I only posted the top 5 in each age group but I noticed Higher Calling (Cleveland) right around the top 5 and the ones in the top 5 in some of the age groups. Notice heritage in there a couple of times, you can see why their high school is getting better. The Elite team you see listed is also one of the top programs. its the old sharpshooters bunch. I would think they will feed Blackman and maybe some of the other Murfreesboro and Nashville schools. The Wave is Christian Brothers feeder and Nashville Catholic is Father Ryans. These teams have been really strong in the middle school level the last few years and you are seeing a lot of their kids in high school now as well as Soddy and Cleveland. Soddy and Bradleys feeders have dropped of tremendously in the last few years and you are seeing the result at the high school level or will be seeing it soon. Eagle Talon (Gibbs high school) and Pigeon Forge have done a tremendous job in areas that are not normally strong and they will be making waves at the high school level in the near future.

Tots

Team Scores on 12/31/2012 05:08 p.m.

1. red raiders 109.0 2. Halls 61.5 3.MJ Bears 58.5 4.Rockford 45.0 5. Fighting Wolverines 38.0

Bantams

Team Scores on 12/31/2012 05:03 p.m.

1.red raiders 165.0 2. Murfreesboro Elite 103.5 3.East Ridge Wrestling Club 90.0 4.Mcminn Youth Wrestling 84.0 5.Dickson Wrestling Club 80.5

Midgets

1. red raiders 139.5 2.Elite Wrestling Academy 132.5 3.Wave Club Wrestling 132.5 4.Knox Youth 113.5 5.Heritage 101.0

Novice

1.red raiders 223.5 2. Murfreesboro Elite 177.0 3.Eagle Talon 165.5 4. Wave Club Wrestling 121.0 5. MJ Bears 93.0

Middle school

1.Soddy Daisy Middle School 212.0 2.MJ Bears 208.5 3.Nashville Catholic 154.5 4. Murfreesboro Elite 148.5 5.Higher calling 141.0

You wouldn't judge a feeder strictly on their high school success? Isn't that what the term "feeder" is referring to? Feeding the high school programs??? What better way to judge how strong a feeder club is than by how well the program succeeds that it's feeding?

No I wouldnt base it strictly on that. I would base their success on how they do now and not how they do at a later date after they have left the feeder program. Just like many parents move their child to the best high schools to wrestle, parents also move their kids to the best feeder programs at the youth level. So while your goal may be to feed a certain high school I think the best or at least some of the feeder programs end up "feeding" a lot of schools. Some programs may be able to keep their kids at the school they are trying to feed but some programs may not be able to. Parents may chose to go to a diferent middle school or high school for educational purposes. They may chose to go to a different school for wrestling purposes. They may not be able to get into the private school they are currently wrestling with in their feeder program. There are a lot of variables it seems.

AAU State is not a proper litmus test. Success at the High School level is a better indicator of how strong the feeder is.

 

I would definitely consider the Wave Club a great feeder club. Located in a very weak wrestling area, they have managed to feed into CBHS and turn the Brothers into a top team in the state and even get some national recognition. Not to mention that a few former Wave wrestlers have been ranked nationally in High School.

The Wave certainly has had tremendous success putting out top notch talent. Im noit sure I would judge a feeder strictly on their high school success though. This topic was about current feeder programs. Would you judge a college football team based on how their players do in the pros at a later date? No you would judge that team on how they do now. I think there are different dynamics at different feeder programs. I think at a lot of feeder programs in the Chattanooga area those kids end up at different high schools and dont necesarily wrestle at the same school they wrestle kids club at. As far as out of state wrestling and national wrestling Im pretty sure the top Chattanooga kids wrestle in Atlanta almost every weekend. Thats not exclusive to the Wave or Nashville Catholic. I think geographics plays a large role in where you wrestle more than likely.

Looks like it will come down to Cleveland and the Osceola Kowboys - although St. Thomas Aquinas and Palm Harbor are within striking distance. Osceola has 9 in the semis to Cleveland's 5, plus Cleveland lost 2 or 3 already in the consolations so it will be an uphill climb for them tomorrow as far as the team score goes. I am not even close to an expert but this is one of the better IBT tournaments in FL from what I read from the Orlando and Tampa HS sports writers (they seem (to me) to bash Brandon for not coming).

Lol, it looks like Brandon goes to the Clash in Minnesota. If someone is bashing them for that then they dont know much about wrestling

You just named teams from 3 different classifications.

Remember he uses hypothetical match ups and imaginary opponents. Its his own little world and he see's it however he wants! lol .