Newestguy

The TSSAA better hope and pray that no deaths from this can be traced back to the Cow Palace. I've been screaming about the sanitary conditions about that place for years (NO SHOWERS, animal feces, etc.) and they chose to turn a blind eye/ear. All because it's free.

Was just wondering if anyone tested positive for the Coronavirus that was present at the Cow Palace for the State Tourney. Talk about a possible breeding ground.

6 hours ago, durdon said:

When it comes to training,  90% of training at the HS level should be technique driven and 10% should be live.  Actually that 90% might be low.  Hard drilling with a purpose is how kids develop and get better in this sport, not live matches in practice. 
Fight night and practices that focus mostly on live Matches in my opinion are completely worthless 
 

I would tend to agree with you in the BIG SCHEME OF THINGS. 

The bottom line is - it's off season. If kids don't want to workout they won't. Whatever can be offered for them to get some work in is a good thing. If it takes "fight nights" to get them to workout great. If you want to be a nazi and MAKE them come to drill sessions, more power to you. IMO freestyle/greco over the summertime is a great change of pace and generally speaking the BEST MOST SUCCESSFUL in the sport wrestle greco/freestyle (that's not my opinion, that's a fact). 

Someone asked a question - "why/what's fight nights" implying that since they don't do that in Chattanooga it must be stupid, and I simply gave my 2 cents. It isn't bad. Is it better than freestyle/greco - no. Is it better then the same ole, same ole they get doing the season? IMO yes, just to for something a bit different.

14 minutes ago, JIII said:

I didn’t say that there wasn’t a benefit but you would think that a technique driven approach has more benefits for everyone. An excessive amount of live wrestling has lots of inherent risks for the kids participating that are unnecessary. The sport as a whole is extremely physically demanding and yet it appears that it is being doubled down on in the spring. I would think that technique would be the focus in the off season to improve the skill set of the wrestlers. However keep doing what your doing if you think that is what wins team championships.

IMO coaching wrestling is a 3 pronged approach
1) Technique - which obviously is first demonstrated and taught but is improved through drilling and repetition.
2) Live wrestling - Which can't be replicated. Teaches what works in the real world and how to "win"
3) Strength and conditioning

During the season live wrestling takes place in 2 ways
1) Match competition which is prescheduled
2) In practice with the same partners over and over again

The "fight nights" allows wrestlers to get DIFFERENT competition besides what they see everyday in their own room. It also allows kids to wrestle as much as they want. Get tired - rest. The chances of getting injured drilling are just as high when live wrestling (at least that's been my lifetime experience).

Many camps are nothing but technique. Many camps are nothing but live wrestling. Many are both.

There is no right or wrong. But I do think most coaches would find it odd (unless being invited to teach at a camp) teaching technique to someone else's wrestlers - hence fight night. 

24 minutes ago, JIII said:

I am curious to know what is the advantage of these said Fight Nights? We don’t have them in the Chattanooga area and it seems that it works out just fine. Do the kids not show up if it’s technique driven?

There is none.

Unless of course you consider live wrestling with various different opponents having varying body types, skill sets and technique for up to 3 days a week for the entire spring for free having some type of benefit. But I'm not sure who in their right mind would consider that beneficial.

1 hour ago, Ummmno said:

It’s small school. Who cares?

Is that supposed to be sarcasm or a shot at all the wrestlers, coaches, fans and administrators involved with Fairview, Whitwell and the entire "small school" community. Maybe they care as much as you and the mighty, high powered Tennessee "big school" community does about their business.

I can just hear some wrestling fan in IA, PA, OH, NJ, CA, etc. community asking "wow did you see that upset at the TN state tourney"? and some arrogant jerk says "who cares, that's TN".

2 hours ago, cbg said:

Just like in the interview with Kevin Dresser (Iowa State) when he spoke of coaching 17 or 18 years in high school before becoming the head coach at Virginia Tech.  You must micro manage everything that high school wrestlers do including personally weighing them 4 or 5 times per day.  If a coach begins the season doing this and is consistent throughout the season the kids will make weight without any questions.  If a coach leaves it up to the kids there is a chance that a kid will break and not make weight.  Not too many years ago failing to make weight was unacceptable behavior and if a kid failed to make weight a coach could put them off the team forever.  With the soft parents we have today it appears to be ok with kids not making weight.  

Great points CBG. I would add - if unsupervised there isn't a "chance" a kid may not make weight, there's a "good chance" that they won't make weight. 14-17 year old kids don't always understand that one pound of water equals to one pound. When kids get thirsty (hungry is easy) they lose their minds. Here's some unsolicited advice for any young coaches:

1) ALWAYS have a certified scale wherever you go.
2) NO ONE leaves from the hotel (if on the road), or school to go to the weigh in until they are on weight. Obviously plan accordingly to make sure everyone arrives either at your school or wherever your scale is with plenty of time to spare (example if you have a local tournament with a 8 am weigh in that's 30 minutes away, they should plan to be at your school by 6-6:30am. NO ONE (except Hwy and those with zero weight issues) just shows up at the weigh in. They meet at your school.
3) When on the road at a hotel, if there is a next morning weigh in, no one goes to bed until they are within 1 pound (every 8 hours of sleep equates to drifting 1 pound). Those close with weight sleep in rooms with at least one coach.
4) Get to the weigh ins one hour in advance. The first thing EVERYONE does is check their weight on the check scale

NO exception to the rules. No one should be running or scrambling to make weight AT the weigh ins. If so, this falls directly on the coach.

1 hour ago, fooseball95 said:

Newest guys picks are all the way wrong lol

A little premature for that statement.

How many #1 seeds go on to win?
Admittedly I've been wrong before (actually more than once). BUT

I picked Villanova to win it all the year they did (prior to the tournament starting of course)
Titans to not only beat NE but Baltimore as well
Caldwell to bet Metcalf
I could go on....

But I don't wager. I learned my lesson on that. If I won instead of lost when I wager I'd be a very rich man.

55 minutes ago, Bump11 said:

lets get back in topic. 

 

this post is for AAA state picks lets keep it that way

Out of respect for Bump (although getting off topic is usually more fun)
PS I only do Champions

106
Wilson

113 
Borders

120
Bates

126
Shines

132
Seeley

138
Mann

145
Finch

152
Laxton

160
Schilling

170
Meeks

182
Maynor

195
Feldhacker

220
Boyce

Hwy
Coffey

39 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

No the growth of TN wrestling as of late is directly related to the growth in youth programs. Start young and grow with the program and the high school program grows.

 

It has zero to do with adding a small school division.

Come on now! The watered down approach is obviously working. 
When it was just one division McCallie dominated (of course they were cheating)
Then when it was 2 Divisions. McCallie and Bradley dominated (surely they cheated)
Now its 3 Divisions (or 4, I get confused). So now Baylor, Cleveland and Pigeon Forge get to dominate (obviously they're all cheating).

Exactly what the coaches wanted and voted for. 

3 hours ago, texas23 said:

I would say that human nature of any person (coach) is hard to understand sometimes.  I could see the reporting coach being upset (if he believed the opposing coach was sanctioning cheating) and going on the idea that this is the consequences of that behavior.  And justifying it by "this is what you get when you cheat".  

Does anyone on here really believe the coach that reported this has 100% abided  by the "code of ethics section"? Give us all a break. How many coaches have 100% abided by the hydration test. Reporting 100% accurate weights for every single weighin. Looked the other way when kids used plastics. Given special treatment to wrestlers they've had in class on weigh in or match days. Gone to other teachers and asked for they're wrestler to be able to do make up work. I could go on and on and on. 

Some, of course are more ethical than others. But NO ONE is 100% ethical - only Christ. There's just too many gray areas because there's too many "rules". And we're human beings. We're flawed.

I'll go ahead and say it. The coach that  reported this is 100% wrong and should be ashamed of himself. This is no way excuses the wrestler for not abiding by the "rules".

The old adage lives - "he who smelt it probably dealt it". In other words whoever reported this probably has more ethical issues than most. He'll get his.

What goes around comes around.

On another note, the coach of the kid who was disqualified needs to implement a simple team rule. NO ONE leaves for the weigh ins until they are on weight. PERIOD.

 

2 hours ago, Hamblin said:

And calling guys who make the sacrifices "sissy coaches" won't help matters. At all.

Actually he already said he was in favor of 1 Division. The comment was meant towards those that hid behind the "it will help the sport to grow" delusion. I have much more respect for those that call it what it is - "it's easier for us to compete". At least be honest about it. However, the ones I respect the most are the ones that don't use excuses at all. That teach kids the parody between life and wrestling. You get out what you put in. So what if they have more students and more money? Life isn't fair. Not sure where the "life is supposed to be fair" thing comes from. It certainly isn't mentioned any where in the Bible. Overcome.

I do feel for wrestlingcoach125. You can't do it all yourself. It's too much and will burn you out. I admire his honesty and priorities. Coach (wrestlingcoach125) perhaps someday you can find an assistant that's willing to help without expecting anything financial (or very little) in return. I've often said the most important role of the head coach is to hire the right assistant/s.

1 hour ago, PurpleWrestler said:

You guys are preaching this for your own personal agendas. Yes it would be great to see one division. But exactly how does that “grow” the sport?  That just makes the top prize worth more. But other states have more divisions than TN and their numbers are up. Growing the sport starts at the youth level. Not at the high school level. Way too tough to start wrestling as a high schooler. 

What agenda? If you mean I'm being selfish wanting to see a more exciting state tournament that's more competitive and in a real arena as opposed to a cow barn, then ok. I suppose I have an agenda. Maybe it's just me, but I like to get goosebumps at a state tournament, not animal crap dust on my tongue while trying to watch 3 state champions at once.

You are correct. Putting it back in one division won't help grow the sport. But splitting it up into 3 or 4 divisions doesn't help grow it either. It was just a weak excuse for splitting put out there by the sissy coaches that said one division was too hard. It wasn't fair. Wrestling should be fair. Having to compete with bigger schools and trying to overcome just doesn't teach kids the right lessons in life. When things get hard just scream "it isn't fair!!!"

2 hours ago, werazzlin said:

suppose to be 2 new AAA district 11 teams for next year. Gallatin and Green Hill. So the sport is growing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the sport is growing". If you mean schools added then yes. If you mean by overall participation numbers, then a definite no. Here are the facts:

Let me just mention 1 interesting fact. Since it's peek in 2013, boys participation in wrestling in the state of TN is down 13%. Yet there's a 9% increase in the number of schools that have wrestling.  A 5% increase in high school students over the same period.

I'm not sure what to make of this, but I don't see the "build it and they will come" approach working. I simply see more schools, less wrestlers per school and the pool very watered down. 

No one wants to admit when mistakes are made. 

http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/

19 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

Keep going, let’s see what the not small guys have done.  

 

And newest guy, don’t worry I am sure you saw the lights of the gym a few times, no matter how you go into a match the outcome isn’t always what you want and it’s great to have 3-4 champions and the rest a bunch of scrubs, but the best teams the actual best teams in the country top to bottom are the best with no holes, that’s what Bradley and Cleveland have done for years and I guess the way you guys look at it we can put it this way, Cleveland won, Baylor second with McCallie third and Wilson Central was 4th. See when you don’t wrestle head to head you don’t prove who the best is as a team. You find out who the best individual is, but not the best team. So we mine as well add 2 more Chattanooga area teams and just push back mighty Wilson Central to 4th, maybe it makes Bradley looks worse, but it’s funny to see the jealousy of those out there from everywhere else. OW has proven an idiot, we have seen that time and time again, his gate blinds him to the fact that even last year head2head his team Arlington lost to Soddy but yet Soddy being ranked he sounded like a whiny girl! So how about this, when another team from anywhere in the state wins a state title come back to me at that point, again Soddy themselves have won 4 titles compared to all other public schools outside of Chattanooga have won 3 total with 3 different schools! You aren’t on the Chattanooga level an it pisses you off, so instead of running your moth on a message board, get to work in the room, that’s where champions are made!

Soddy?

soddy scored a whopping 17 points with zero placers. They’ve been steadily declining  since the Turner brothers left. Not sure why you’re rambling about Soddy but it isn’t helping whatever point you’re trying to make (not really sure what point you are trying to make - with the exception of not understanding team scoring at individual tournaments).

2 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

Well that was easy - the first two I looked at!

AAA 106 Chris Calvin - 2nd place - total points 25.5

AAA 106 Braden Ivy - 3rd place - total points 25.5

 

AAA 120 Andrew Artiles - 2nd place - total points 24

AAA 120 Jacob Haney - 3rd place - total points 25

 

Cobra- you are a moron.  Just because you spew it doesn't make it fact!

LMAO

19 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

You probably weren’t very good at it and your team sucked! Don’t worry higher calling can help little Jimmy or Tommy get better, you just got to make that drive! 

So it’s come down to insults. So I’ll leave it at this

1) I definitely wasn’t undefeated 

2) every time I wrestled (probably 500-600  matches) I always wrestled to pin the guy

5 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

well CHS, the problem i have with people taking individual state team finishes into account is 2 fold

 

1. Not every region is created equal, what happens in one region where a team qualified all 14 kids  while another region a team like cleveland who killed in duals has 1-2 kids that most likely would place in any other region end up not even qualifying and because of that the team only takes 12? that is more points on the table for the team that takes 14 compared to 12, that can make a huge difference. 

2. The tournament is ONLY seeded for past state placers that actually WIN their region, so as we saw this weekend, a state final could really come close to taking place in quarters or even semi's because of not having any seeds and a bad blind draw, that in turn costs teams points.

That is why individual tourneys matter very little to me(i dont care of anyone else's opinion, a dual is the test in strength of the actual team.)

I get it. You’re a duals guy. Some would rather have (or watch) a team full of 5th place guys. That’s great. Personally I’d rather have or watch a team with 3 champs, and a few qualifiers. That’s just me.

To me the entire reason I wrestled was to pin the guy. That was always the object for me. Not to try to lose by a little. Everyone has different philosophies.

1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

well CHS, the problem i have with people taking individual state team finishes into account is 2 fold

 

1. Not every region is created equal, what happens in one region where a team qualified all 14 kids  while another region a team like cleveland who killed in duals has 1-2 kids that most likely would place in any other region end up not even qualifying and because of that the team only takes 12? that is more points on the table for the team that takes 14 compared to 12, that can make a huge difference. 

2. The tournament is ONLY seeded for past state placers that actually WIN their region, so as we saw this weekend, a state final could really come close to taking place in quarters or even semi's because of not having any seeds and a bad blind draw, that in turn costs teams points.

That is why individual tourneys matter very little to me(i dont care of anyone else's opinion, a dual is the test in strength of the actual team.)

That’s just silly.

First off, Not all regions are created equal, I agree. Same goes for regions for state duals. Many times the third best team may find themselves sitting at home because only 2 qualify. Last i checked there were no wildcards. Secondly, most of the time there’s very little difference between the top teams in duals and the top teams in individuals. Thirdly, to say because of no seeding you can’t get a true measure is ludicrous. If there is a bad draw then the guy on the short end will most certainly come back to get third. There’s very little difference in points between second and third. Fourthly, coming through the wrestle backs you may have a better chance for pin points and, depending where you lose in the championship round, you may have more matches. Fifthly, In duals sometimes it comes down to who stalls the best (boy, isn’t that exciting) or who gets tech falled instead of pinned or what coach is better at shifting around their line up (many times not giving the fans the matchups they came to watch). Finally it’s hard to measure when teams forfeit out 

1 hour ago, sx1234 said:

This is a strange generation of kids.  I use  to say kids would rather sit at home and play video games over going to practice and working hard- which still holds true.  However, now kids sit at home and watch youtube videos of other people playing the games! 

There’s actually college scholarships now for gamers. Even team competitions.

https://www.scholarships.com/financial-aid/college-scholarships/sports-scholarships/esports-scholarships-scholarships-for-gamers/

5 minutes ago, Hamblin said:

Take some time to see who has the most influence over the boys in today's society. I know I'm gonna step on a toe or two by saying it but it's the ladies.

Here's another toe stepped on.....our boys are being feminized because of nonsense like toxic masculinity and other such garbage. Beta males is the new normal and step dad's get bullied by the moms. Sorry guys but it's the truth.

It's very scary to think what things will look like 20 years from now....at my current age I probably won't see it. 

Like anything else, it's a combination of things. But I agree with your point. I would have thought with the rise in popularity of the UFC participation would be rising more. IMO one of the biggest problems is there is simply a lack of qualified coaches and support for wrestling with most administrations.

15 minutes ago, Hamblin said:

Seems to me that around that same time it was recognized that numbers were starting to decline. AAU, which eventially feeds high schools with talent, made a move to improve this be starting beginner events for kids. Although there was a slight hiccup last season they have done a pretty good job of getting new kids on the mat. The beginner events fill up quick. Give this some time to see what happens. 

I have heard that numbers in football have declined slightly as well. Maybe there is a trend?

 

 

Let's hope so Hamblin. I started looking at all the states and TN certainly isn't alone. For some reason 2011 - 2013 seems to be the peek time for participation. Last year was the worst and this year is just a tad better. IN, CA, NJ, PA, OH, CO, NY, IA, GA all down (although OH, IA  are about the same) even though many have more schools and everywhere there are more students. At least a 10% drop in GA, CA, IN, CO and TN. 

One exception I'm seeing is AL, it's WAY up (over 25% over the last 5-6 years). Maybe we should see what they're doing.

Let me just mention 1 interesting fact. Since it's peek in 2013, boys participation in wrestling in the state of TN is down 13%. Yet there's a 9% increase in the number of schools that have wrestling.  A 5% increase in high school students over the same period.

I'm not sure what to make of this, but I don't see the "build it and they will come" approach working. I simply see more schools, less wrestlers per school and the pool very watered down. 

No one wants to admit when mistakes are made. 

http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/

1 minute ago, Hamblin said:

What solutions are you offering to improve this situation?

Prior to 1997 I would have never asked the question. Perhaps the solution dates back to then.

Hixson  -14

Alcoa - 12

Chattanooga Central - 8

Polk County - 7

Upperman - 8

Greenback - 3

Brainerd - 2

Tyner - 4

Cumberland County - 2

Sale Creek - 3

Livingston Academy - 5

If my math is right that's an average of 4.8 wrestlers per weight class