bballfanforever

2 hours ago, ihavenofriendzz said:

BackwardsK can pretend it's all 12s fault but lets be real. Ref calls a foul quicker and WB doesn't continue harassing him and none of it happens either.

Or you could continue to blame everyone but the folks who broke the rule or were residing for the players making sure that they followed the rule. 

11 minutes ago, ihavenofriendzz said:

You can have the rule all day, but not a single bench player got involved but is still punished for standing up and taking a step.

"Standing up and taking a step"? 

That's what they did?

I highly doubt that was the case. 

This was no celebration during a timeout. Equating those two circumstances is really reaching, imo. 

As for how far is too far, there were reports that most (if not all) of the Farragut players were at midcourt. I would suggest that's more than one step. 

I was not in attendance and haven't seen video either way, but players running onto the floor in a circumstance like this cannot be tolerated imo. 

2 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

How is the leaving the bench rule arbitrary?  Do you think players should be able to run out on the floor and escalate/participate in an altercation?

There's nothing arbitrary about it and any coach worth his salt had made sure that his players know it. Do not leave the bench. 

 

I would be surprised if these players had not been told to never leave the bench. 

By all means no. I was just curious what you do to punish a program that went 0-10. The only thing left would look like the T$$AA sending buzzards to eat the rest of the carcass.

 

Now that's funny, right there.  I don't care who you are.  

The T$$AA could really punish them and move S-D up to the Super 32 so they would go 0-11 instead of 0-10. Tell me what else could you do to an 0-10 team.

 

Not to be argumentative, but do you suggest TSSAA should only exercise punishments on programs that have been successful (or could be in the near future)?

 

I have no way to know if there were violations in the SDHS program, but in my opinion if any school is guilty of violations then the past (or possible future) success of the program should be of little importance when considering punishments.

What you have to remember is that they are there on an open zone transfer, and they started there as freshmen. There is no residency issue with either the TSSAA or with Knox County Schools.

 

HTV, I'm definitely no expert on TSSAA rules and I don't really have a dog in this hunt (so maybe I shouldn't even be participating in the discussion?) but it was/is my understanding that students must live with a parent /guardian in order to be eligible. I wasn't really addressing transfer rules, but rather questioning whether living with someone other than the parent /guardian would be in violation of TSSAA rules. The TSSAA sections that I referenced seem to suggest that living with the assistant coach would have violated those policies. If wrong, please correct me.

 

I also offer no judgement on any coach or administrator, either. I have no way of knowing who knew what in this situation. From everything I've ever heard, Coach Duncan is a good man and well respected administrator and coach - and I've heard positive things about the principal as well.

 

From these TSSAA sections, however, it seems to me there is some question here as to TSSAA compliance.

From the TSSAA handbook:  

Guardian – An adult with whom the student has lived for twelve (12) or more months. For purposes of TSSAA Bylaws, official appointment by a court is not required to establish guardianship; however, no person may be considered a guardian for purposes of these Bylaws unless the student has lived with that person for twelve (12) or more months, regardless of whether that person has been appointed as a guardian by a court.

 

Also from the TSSAA handbook:

Q. Is it possible for an athlete who does not live at home with his/her parents or guardians to become eligible?

A. Yes. After such a student has attended school for a full school year, and has lived in the community in which the school is located for a period of at least twelve months, the student’s case may be submitted to the Executive Director for a ruling.

Well, I said a while ago I wouldn't want to play science hill. Looks like science hill and Oak ridge advance. Crockets season ends!!

Oak Ridge probably shouldn't take that attitude, and I don't think they will. After all, they got a little payback due them.

 

DC's trip to the 'Boro just got exponentially more difficult. You have to know that the fans from SH have to be extra pumped about this win.

As John Wooden once said when asked about it being tough to beat a good team three times in the same season, , "My answer is, would you rather fight somebody who’s whipped you twice or somebody that you’ve whipped twice?"

Ding. We have a winner. You guys act like there is a waiting list to become a ref. They cannot get enough people to do it as it is because most do not want to listen to all the crap spewed at them. Most of the stuff I hear is ignorant rants. 75% of people yelling crap have never played and have no idea what the rules really state.

I have been coaching for over 25 years and there is no doubt there are good and bad officials. However, it is not exactly a fulfilling profession.

Exactly. As a coach, I teach my kids that officials make mistakes like all other people.

 

I tell them that when they can make every shot, eliminate every turnover, and master the 'perfect game', then they can question a mistake by an official. We all screw up - coaches, players, and officials. It is inherent in humans.

 

Officials are not created equally. Some are better than others. I do believe, however, that the overwhelming majority are trying to do their level best when they hit the floor.

If I am not mistaken, it is standard operating procedure for the lead official to check with each head coach at some point inside of the 10 minute mark during warm-ups to verify that all players are legally attired. If not, the required change must be made before the offending player takes the floor.

 

The headbands were most likely in violation due to the logo (assuming they did not violate the color ruling). If that was the issue, I cannot see why turning them inside out would not have been acceptable, but if they were forced to remove them there was most likely a very good reason.

 

As to blaming officials for losses, I used to tell my son: "Do you know how to spot a loser? He's the one complaining about the officials. Act like a winner even when you lose."

 

Officials are human. They make mistakes and miss calls (yeah, some of them seem to be worse than others), but in 50 years of watching and participating in sports I can count on one hand the number of times that I have seen an official that I thought was out to get any particular team.

 

Players commit turnovers. Players miss layups. Players miss wide open jumpers. Players miss free throws. Players expect officials, however, to be perfect.

 

Coaches make mistakes in substitutions, misuse timeouts, and make strategic errors in offensive and defensive decisions. Many of them expect officials to be perfect, though.

 

In my opinion, if most folks were completely honest they would actually tell you that they don't mind when officials make mistakes, so long as it benefits the team of their choice.

 

You cannot expect officials to be perfect. You can only ask them to be consistent.

 

Just my $0.02 worth.

The Riverdale schedule isn't top ten strength wise in AAA in TN according to coacht. #18 I think.

😭 😭

You have no idea. You are just trying to hate BC someone in charge showed sense instead of going with the lynch mob. See y'all next year.

This has nothing to do with 'hate'. You stand on your moral high horse and espouse beliefs and attack those who have different views from your own? You do not know me. You have no knowledge of what kind of person I am. Yet you accuse me of 'hating' because you made what I consider a completely idiotic comment and I questioned it.

 

Just so you understand, my post that you replied to had nothing to do with the suspension/firing of these people. Maybe you meant to reply to my earlier post, and if so that would at least be more relevant. It would not excuse your hatred of me, but it would have at least been relevant.

 

(See what I did there?) I accused you of hatred without even knowing you. I assure you that it was done tongue-in-cheek, and I apologize if it offended you.

Best idea I have heard.

 

Could the team have simply forfeited? Would T$$AA have allowed a forfeit if the forfeiting school had agreed to send an equivalent amount of gate $$ to TSSAA?

Sorry, but I have a really difficult time seeing how letting any team decide their opponent is a good idea. Just go play the game, beat the opposition, and move on.

 

Not that I would be in favor of this either, but if a team was going to be allowed to select their first round region opponent it should be the district champion, not the 3rd place team in the district.

Riverdale is about to go on a huge run for years including next year with an interim coach. Teams are lucky they aren't in the tourney now as they were poised for a huge run in this years tourney.

Yes, against Smyrna they really played like a team that was "poised for a huge run in this year's tourney".

 

That is laughable considering what transpired.

Smyrna principal has already done the right thing and permenantly removed his coach from his position.

 

Also, maybe the administrators and AD's ought to be present for future athletic events involving their students? Had they been there for this consolation game then this could have been stopped before it ever really got started.

For anyone to forfeit is undesirable, in my opinion. As I said above, I am in favor of Knox teams being given every reasonable opportunity to compete. When it comes time to cut the field, though, I just do not see how anyone could feel justified in eliminating teams that were prepared to play while keeping teams in the tournament that were not prepared to participate - even if it was due to decisions of their administrative staffs.

Should the players on these teams that have run miles of suicides, practice shooting thousands of freethrows and spent countless hours in the gym getting ready for the post season run be denied their opportunity at a gold ball because of weather? Something completely out of their control? I don't know so help me out on this, These other areas that are still playing, have they been closed all of these days that Knox county has in the past two weeks? Do those county school boards allow their gymnasiums to open for games on snow days?

This is not just a Knox county issue. I know that Gatlinburg Pitman is in the mountains in Sevier county and they have not played there quarter final game yet against Scott County High. Kingston which is a roane county school has not played their game against Fulton yet either so it must not just be a Knox County ruling.

CAK and Union County have both advanced in regional play. Is it fair to them because these other county schools are out due to weather and can't play? Should they be allowed to advance if the others have to forfeit?

The tournament is about the kids that have done all of the work so they should not be punished because of some untimely weather and policies set by the county school boards. This will be a tough ruling for the TSSAA to make if it comes down to it.

I get your point, but your facts are not correct. GP defeated Scott and Kingston can't play Fulton because Fulton isn't allowed to compete. The same situation exists in region 1AAA where South Doyle's game at Science Hill has put the entire girls' region one day behind (all the other teams played their quarterfinal games on Monday).

 

I am all for allowing every opportunity for Knox County teams to be allowed to compete, but at some point there simply may not be enough time left to get all of the games played. If this happens, I don't think that teams that were ready to play should be penalized because Knox County's school board and administrators have decided that their athletes cannot compete.

the fault is absolutely without a doubt on the shoulders of the TSSAA for placing $$$ above the spirit and so called integrity of the game

 

everyone does not deserve a brownie or a trophy...but hey lets have half of the state play in the postseason so we can charge ridiculous fees to see blowouts in the 1st 2 rounds...then again in the 1st round of regions

 

and after that...even if you lose...you can still continue to play...because losing is ok in this world...it can make you a champion in the state of TN

 

a coach has every right to do what he/she thinks will get his team a better opportunity to make a deeper run in the playoffs...that includes losing a game intentionally to avoid a bad matchup in an elimination game

 

if you want to avoid such nonsense in the future...play a real tournament where the loser goes home instead of trying to take advantage of the communities financially

I would disagree about who is responsible. In my opinion, the coaches, ADs, and administrators at these two schools are responsible for what happened in this game.

 

I would agree that not everyone deserves a brownie.

 

You can be a three game tournament loser in our state and still win a gold ball, so it can potentially get you a championship in TN.

 

Lastly, while I see the argument for a one loss and done format, the format in our state does allow for two very good teams from the same district (maybe even the two best in the state) to still be able to play each other in a state tournament championship game. There is some merit to that philosophy, also.

I can understand having more teams in the basketball play offs cause quite frankly, there are more schools that play basketball.

Beating a dead horse here, but I like the idea of 3 teams advancing from districts. Make the 3rd place game really mean something. Then for regions, give the 1 seed a bye, and let the 2 seeds play the 3 seeds. That is EXACTLY how the TMSAA does their sectional tournys, and it works for them.

TSSAA would lose the money from 16 satellite region games per class (48 total satellite games) if this happened. I do not see it happening.

Just don't bother watching an Rutherford County games.

 

I hear one of these games recently made it on Sportscenter!

Removing these two teams from the tournament was, in my opinion, the correct decision. Play to win or go home, I say.

 

Having said that, the current TSSAA basketball tournament format - which potentially allows a team to lose three tournament games and still win the state tournament - definitely potentially rewards this type of thinking.

I can't believe you just said that you wouldn't change a thing. So what are you people teaching your children? At least you have to suffer the consequences of your pathetic actions. If I were the principal the coach would be looking for another job. When ESPN carries a story like this it disgraces what use to be a reputable program. What was done is wrong and I am sorry the girls have adults telling them it was ok according to what you just said.

They are teaching their children to win no matter what.

 

Who are we kidding here. The principals and ADs are as much to blame as the coaches in this situation. Did they just sit and watch this happen? If they did, then they are also responsible for it.

 

If they were not there, the question would be why were they not there. The principals should have been there and they should have stopped this at the point in the game that it became obvious what was taking place. Had I been the administrator at either of these schools, I would have gone to the bench and made it clear to my head coach that continuing to play in this manner would result in him being removed from his coaching position.