1993Viking

The official in question, Rob Croxdale, is blatantly biased official towards Science Hill.  He thrives on being able to disqualify wrestlers and then brags about it.  This fact is well known throughout Region 1.  If  Science Hill coaches say jump, he says Yes sir!  Its sickening that Jimmy Miller and Caleb Myers use an official as their pawn.  But its a match made in heaven because none of the group have a speck of morals.

I am sorry for the others in Region 1 who have to deal them. 

Obviously I'm a Region 1 guy so maybe I am biased, but I told you guys not to sleep on DB.  I don't think they lose anyone so they will be a force next year. 

Even though we compete hard within our region, I like to see all of our Region 1 teams do well when they are wrestling other Regions but I have to agree that Science Hill was very overrated this season.  What is it that Observer always said, they received the tradition vote.  This year it was true.  

On 1/31/2020 at 5:43 PM, topperpride11 said:

We had several of our starters out sick.  Some of those who wrestled were also sick.  Just not at 100%, credit to DB though, they showed up ready to wrestle.  We can only wonder what could have been if we were at full strength.  

The ole "out sick" excuse!  I love it.  While I appreciate your credit to DB I also recognize the implication that they only won because your lineup was not 100%.  I'm obviously not from DB (Viking Pride!) but I would guess their lineup was not 100% either, what team is at this point in the season.  As Rasslinking asked, were you at full strength when they beat you the first time???  Science Hill is a strong team with a handful of very good wrestlers but they are not at the level of DB this year and in my opinion are not top 4.  

I love though that Region 1 has completely flipped the script over the past 7 or 8 years.  We used to be the Region everyone hoped to draw, now we are the region that coaches dread.  I think a Region 1 team has placed top 4 every year but one for a while now.  A few years ago year my Tennessee High Vikings and SH were both top 4.  Other than Region 4 and WC, I don't think any other Region can make the same claim.  

You're all sleeping on Dobyns Bennett.  They are legit with very few holes.  Not strong enough to beat Cleveland but if they are on the opposite side I think they are in the finals.  They have five potential medalist and others are strong in a dual.  They dismantled Science Hill twice this year, even in a conservative match at Region Duals they were in control without having to make any lineup shifts.  They will most likely have to get past BC at some point but should be top 3.

1 hour ago, Norseman said:

These kids were around each other all day Saturday. Most were diagnosed on Sunday. The average incubation period for flu is two days. Let’s do some math. Diagnosed Sunday plus two days would put us to yesterday at best, today, which is Wednesday would be two plus full days. Was there practice Monday, not to my knowledge. There is usually more going on than others realize. People put their kids in a coaches hands to make the best decision for their kids regardless of what others may do or say. 

Good point and given all this wonderful information Norse, am I correct to assume Science Hill will again be forfeiting their matches tomorrow to Tennessee High & David Crockett.  If your coaches must make the best decision for your kids, using your timeline and medical knowledge, your team will still have the flu and will be highly contagious tomorrow.  

Science Hill has 33 wrestlers on their roster on Track.  It appears there are about 6 of those who are no longer active, leaving 27.  SH wrestled 13 at their tournament on Saturday.  Assuming all 13 who wrestled on Saturday are affected by this illness, that leaves 14 to work with.  I am told there were about 8 total wrestlers with SH.  So this begs the question, did the SH coach forfeit all the matches due to illness or did he forfeit because he wanted make a point or lose on his own terms.  Either way, I don't think the argument that the "entire" team is sick holds any water.  

5 minutes ago, topperpride11 said:

This is certainly not Price's last group of middle school kids.  He & Coach McKinney keep pumping them out and I see no reason The Hill won't continue their East Tennessee dominance for several years to come.  

Hold on now Topper, don't get too carried away.  You guys have had a great year and I wish you the best but your statement about East Tennessee dominance is a little near sighted.  My Tennessee High Vikings have won the past two Region Championships and Dobyns Bennett won the year prior.  I think this must be the first in at least four years for you guys.  In addition, the Vikings have brought home a runner up and 3rd place individual state trophy as well as an additional top 10 place in the past 3 years.  They have also placed 3rd, 4th and were in the blood round 3 years ago at duals (with only 10 or 11 kids).  With all due respect, your Toppers haven't cracked the Top 10 at individuals and have one 3rd place dual trophy plus whatever you earn this year.  I hardly call that dominance.  

I wish you guys good luck and I hope you bring home a State Championship this year but my Vikings will be back as well as Dobyns Bennett and several others in Region 1 in the next few years.  

5 hours ago, PatCoach09 said:

I do not believe they have the kids to fill the classes, I saw another dual where I believe they forfeited 4? I just included it since they were being listed with the ranked teams as an "Honorable mention".  True, Chase Brown was also out for Halls anyways.

I wouldn't count out the Vikings yet PatCoach.  They have competed with 10-11 wrestlers for the past 4 seasons and somehow figure out how to bring home hardware.  I expect this year will be no different as the other Region 1 teams will be sitting at home scratching their heads wondering why they can't beat a team that spots them at least 24 points in every dual.   

Good call!... Much better than the TN High over Bradley call.

 

Seriously though, Palmer took it to him. You were right. He came ready to wrestle and took care of business. Looked good. Bowers will be coming through the back side with vengeance I'm sure.

Hey KG, remember my prediction of 3 TN High finalists. Just about pinned your pick at 95.

At 138 we've wrestled Ingram and Pendley (4 times) and Pendley appears to be the better wrestler there. He has a straight shot to the finals and is my pick at that weight. Ingram will most likely have to get through the winner of Story/Wilkins. He beat Story at Independence this season.

 

At 170 Smith from Beech actually lost to Smith from WC. I was surprised by that outcome myself but, like you, could see Kyle Smith (Beech) fighting his way back to avenge that loss and winning the entire thing.

 

At 195, I like your bold pick. I'm not sure if that was just by looking at the rankings or if you've analyzed that bracket, but he will have a tough road to get to the finals having to beat two returning state medalists: Carney and Spangler. But that kid is good!

 

Just some thoughts. I think 138 is the only one I would have different.

Spangler pinned Johnson last year at state. 

I think some of these region 1 kids are going to pull more than a few upsets at state.

I would agree but I think some of them will only be upsets on paper. From Tennessee High there are 2 former Region champs going in as #2 from Region this year, Henley and Fields, they might get overlooked. In addition, Ferguson and Harter both go in as #2 but go can go deep. Nathan Scott at 220 could have been the tournament's Best Wrestler--if I had a vote I would have picked him. Workman was ranked #4 in state. Scott controlled that whole match, he will be an under the radar guy who can earn lots of points for the Vikings and maybe even a medal. I'm predicting 3 finalists for the Vikings.

Pendley v Ingram/Wilkins at 138

Several kids not at the weight class they're wrestling.  Most of the region brackets are out and could be used for reference. 

Typically we have a lot of passionate fans from Region One on here, but this year it has mostly just been 1993Viking expressing his personal vendetta towards me. Let's see if we can give him something else to get excited about and bring out some of the old outspoken fans.

 

1993Viking, your boys are in the driver seat for the traditional Region title as they will get most their big guns to the finals. We will have to make up some ground on the backside to keep ourselves in the hunt.

 

Keep swinging little man, you might land one eventually. 

I don't know that the Vikings are in the drivers seat, but I can see the boys in maroon taking home 7-8 championships.  Or if they don't show up to wrestle like they should, could walk away with only 3-4 and leaving the door open for your boys to reclaim a region title. 

Looking forward to seeing your cute little outfit on Saturday KingGreene. 

First place maybe, but second at individuals especially for programs that do it year in year out doesn't mean near as much. Bradley loves it because they add the state individual team title to the 20 something others they have which is the state record for wrestling and and it might be for any sport in TN. Not sure that Cleveland with Mr. Miller, Steve Henry or even Steve L from Bradley back in the day cared so much finishing second at the state individual tourney. Like i said my senior year was a 3rd and 2nd place finishes and I have seen neither plaque since the day they were handed out. The very pinnacle of this sport for a team is that state duals title after that everything else is prep for individuals to stand on the podium, don't really care if you agree with me, it worked the same way when i was in GA helping coach, individual tourney was just that for individual, we didnt care if we won a team title because half the time we took 5-6 wrestlers total in 14 WC, instead we wanted those 5-6 to be up on the podium.

Those who say it don't matter are the ones who have no chance of winning. To the top 10 teams, especially top 5 if you can't be the champion, I'm certain you want to be 2nd. To say otherwise is just trying to convince someone that you are satisfied with mediocrity. Yes it's about individuals but those individuals contribute to overall team effort and pride. It's at the top of the goal list for anyone with a real chance.

First, a individual tournament win for state tourney is not a real indicator of a teams strength, duals are for that very reason, not even sure except for crap and giggles why they even keep team scores at the individual state tourney, that is for the kids not the team. A Team can have 5 studs on a team win state titles and win the state individual tourney while the other 9 kids cant win even a match doesn't make a tough team. That's why i have never paid any attention to a team race at the individuals, it's called individual tourney for that very reason. When i wrestled coach would throw those plaques in a back room never to see the light of day again, i remember him when they asked us to pose for the second place trophy at individuals my senior year that he up and walked away, same with one that won first, means a whole lot less to i would say most coaches to win the individual but finish 2, 3 or even 4th at the duals, because you are head to head wrestling not wrestling based upon a seed. 

 

 Now Tn High and even Science hill don't usually come down to the region 4 area they usually stay up in their area along with VA which is a very tough wrestling state. So i don't know all that much about them, but I am very glad that the teams from the other regions are catching up as wrestling is my true love in sports and having a very tough wrestling state top to bottom is something i have loved to see come true and that includes Arlington from Reg 8 and we all know Wilson Central with some awesome coaching has hit it big and having good staying power as a top rated program. Right now its a good time to be a fan of Tn wrestling! good luck to all the wrestlers this weekend and for the next 3 weekends!

That's got to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen yet. Teams/kids/coaches don't care about winning individual state? Ha!! You're nuts! Ask Bradley how they feel about that.

As for Region 1 teams traveling. Science Hill was at Cleveland duals. Tennessee went to Beech. Both teams travel well to see good competition.

There's no denying history. Region 4 has dominated the wrestling scene in Tennessee for the past 25 years but other regions are beginning to make inroads. It won't happen overnight but Wilson Central and Beech have shown over the last few years that they can be contenders. My Tennessee High Vikings and our neighbors in Science Hill have both built great programs that are showing they can contend. The west side of the state is coming. Halls might be the most underrated team this season.

That being said, no one is at the level on a region basis yet as region 4, but I will say it's going to be a mistake to overlook any of these teams because they're not in region 4. I've watched the argument about Soddy this season and Cleveland last season and I will point out that Tennessee High did finish 2nd last year. Bradley and Cleveland will most likely be 1/2 at duals but don't be surprised to see one of these other teams "upset" them at the tournament in 2 weeks.

Thank you.

 

I'm sorry that the good people associated with the TN High program have to apologize for your antics on here. But I appreciate the many text and messages I have received apologizing for you and assuring me that your views do not reflect the views of their parents and program. I know they do not. The people that matter to me have spoken outside of a screen name and thanked me for the role that I have played in your program's current success.

 

And lastly, I really hope you were not a student of Brimer while at TN High. He was my coach at Greeneville and I know that he would be very disappointed in these comments if he saw them. It is a disgrace to him and your program to act this way.

KG - Its ok. The thing is, you started tossing out the first slight remarks. 

Norse came on and complained about the officiating on the match in Bristol.  Others agreed it was bad.  Norse also complimented SH on "wrestling their butts off."  I replied with another statement that the officiating was bad but "didn't decide the outcome of a match."  I wasn't making any excuses for losing, I was pointing out a fact of officiating issues.  THEN you came on with your sarcastic comments here: "A couple TN High fans on here keep saying "not to make any excuses" but then are making excuses. I promise you there were zero posts on here with excuses the two times TN High beat us last season and won't be if we lose next time.... I was going to let all this go until you mentioned the 152 match. That is a heck of a stretch to say "if he pulls that one out". It was evident (even to the ref) that the job of TN High's 152 was to keep it close and not give up bonus. SH chased him all over the mat in a strong attempt to get the major for 5 minutes. Can't blame him for being a little tired on bottom when TN High finally was able to get on top for the last minute. But he was never close to turning SH so I'm sure the TN High coaches are just glad he didn't get majored." 

Again, neither of us was slighting your team at all but you felt compelled to call out the THS fans for making excuses then you opened up the door by demeaning one of our wrestlers saying its a heck of a stretch for our kid to beat one of yours.  As ArtisCimber says, this is why we wrestle the matches.

Finally, you make the following comments today: "I am glad my parents, fans and kids follow our lead and act with class after wins and losses and never make excuses for their shortcomings."  Implying that the THS parents, fans, and kids are not acting with class and were making excuses. 

I did in fact wrestle with Coach Brimer and you are probably correct that he would be disappointed--in both you and me. No one has to apologize for me.   I will also say that I don't ever recall Coach Brimer going on to social media/message boards to start an argument with fans and parents.  In fact, I rarely see any coaches on here in the middle of message board conflict.  In fact I've watched from afar from the last 2 years before making any comments to you.  You are highly opinionated and often times make very sarcastic demeaning comments that are unnecessary.  If that's your play then so be it but then you need to be able to take it both ways, don't try to pretend you are on the high road so your fans can publically rescue you. 

I'm going to put this to bed now because the argument has just turned silly, on both sides.  The focus should be on our wrestlers. 

We got our tails handed to us last night. Our boys did not show up to wrestle as hard as the TN High kids did. I have no excuses for the way my kids wrestled. I'm not going to say "they didn't look like themselves", it had nothing to do with the refs and I'm not going to talk smack about the coaches. Our kids got outwrestled and I will accept defeat like a man as I told you we would and always do. I am glad my parents, fans and kids follow our lead and act with class after wins and losses and never make excuses for their shortcomings. It's great to be a part of a program like that even when we're on the losing end!

LOL. Ok then, good. I'm glad you've grown as a person. You're a very humble little man. Oh and by the way, nice jacket. Stylin!!!

Where you at KingGreene?? No dedicated thread to show team score/results of the THS/SH match this week??? You posted it twice last week...what gives??

 I think it's a shame that he will be at Seymour for his high school career after all the time Foreman and the rest of the PF family put into him. But then again, maybe there is more to the story than I know.

I bet someone in NC is saying they think its a shame that Wysong is at Science Hill after all the time his Havelock family put into him.  But then again, maybe there is more to the story.

My lack of class always seems to shine through? Really? I feel like I am being pretty civil about this. I have not attacked anyone. I have not attacking any of the kids or fans at all. Everyone knows I am a big fan of everyone in Bristol. I just wish that you all would let it be and let the kids wrestle. If my parents were posting excuses and pictures like this I would think it would be making them look silly as well. There's no need for it.... the hand signal statement is a good point, but that wrestler was not hearing impaired. He has to wait until the whistle. This should not be blamed on the referee.

 

I apologize if you believe I am being classless. That is not me or my intention at all. I have stayed off here all season until we proved ourselves. We proved ourselves with a big win against a tough team and I feel like it is being belittled by complaints of the referee. I just want my kids to get the respect they deserve.

 

I have said my peace about the match. I will disappear back into the shadows now and prepare for the rematch next Thursday. See you in The Palace!

Its probably best that you do, you put yourself out there and when you do you have to have big shoulders to carry the weight.

I love your support of the Region 1 refs, very commendable.  But now that you have set the standard, don't let me hear tell of you complaining about a call from them.  Wouldn't want you to "look silly" 

Yes. It is what it is. Leave it at that and show up on Thursday. A couple TN High fans on here keep saying "not to make any excuses" but then are making excuses. I promise you there were zero posts on here with excuses the two times TN High beat us last season and won't be if we lose next time.... I was going to let all this go until you mentioned the 152 match. That is a heck of a stretch to say "if he pulls that one out". It was evident (even to the ref) that the job of TN High's 152 was to keep it close and not give up bonus. SH chased him all over the mat in a strong attempt to get the major for 5 minutes. Can't blame him for being a little tired on bottom when TN High finally was able to get on top for the last minute. But he was never close to turning SH so I'm sure the TN High coaches are just glad he didn't get majored.... And by the way, just because a kid is good on top doesn't mean the kid on bottom is stalling.

 

And seriously?? The pictures?! In the NFL, if you start early, you lose 5 yards immediately!... In wresting, you get 2 freebees before you give up a point. That was an UTB situation. A jump of the whistle is a huge deal! You can't move before the whistle. It doesn't matter what his hand is doing. He jumped the whistle three times, he losses a point. That is not the refs fault. That is the wrestler's fault. It was a mistake because the kid was nervous. We had a 152 lose a state medal because of that a few years ago and it was his fault he couldn't wait until the whistle. How can you blame the ref on that? You are making TN High fans look silly right now.

 

At a high level, the dual team that wins is the one that wrestled their best that day. We have lost to both Independence and Arlington this year. No excuses. No "what ifs". They wrestled better that day. They beat us. We are just focused on not letting that happen if we run into them again.

Actually Mr. King, you are the one making yourself look silly.  Your lack of class always seems to shine through.  I haven't seen any of the THS fans attacking you or your wrestlers but then you want to cast stones with your comments about THS fans looking silly. 

So tell me, how does one that is hearing impaired compete in the sport of wrestling?  The NFHS created hand signals for them and just such as occasion where a whistle cannot be heard.  Take a look below and you will see the proper hand signal given to start a match.  This is from the NFSH rulebook.  In addition, the whistle is an audible signal that should be simultaneous with the hand signal.  And since you want to go NFL analogy, a lineman is not allowed to draw the defense offsides with hand gestures. 

I wasn't taking anything away from your kid, he might have rode out and won the match anyway, my point was that the officiating was not good.  As I also said before it didn't decide the match but it wasn't good.  Are you seriously saying otherwise???  If so, then I lose a lot of respect for you. 

Just rewatched the Spangler/Medina match.  I hate to see an official make such a bad call and then not have the respect for the kids to correct the mistake.  The first 2 cautions on Spangler were correct.  The 3rd and match deciding was a terrible call.  As you can see from the 2 screen shots off FB, 1 - ready position, 2 - Refs arm out to indicate start at which point he should have simultaneously blown the whistle.  The arm signal is there in cases like last night where it was so loud that the wrestlers might not have been able to hear a whistle so then they have a visual cue to start.  THE REF INDICATED TO START BUT NEVER BLEW HIS WHISTLE!!!!  How is this a false start??  Bad bad call to let that decide the match!!!!

Worst officiated match I have seen, period! On that note Science Hill came out and wrestled their butts off, so that first comment is to take nothing away from those kids. A few calls in the favor of THS and you have a different result. But as I've always said you should never be in a position to where the ref can decide anything. Oh by the way go ahead and write THS off, a lot of people must have short memories and obviously forgotten what they accomplished last year.

I would agree that there were several very wishy-washy calls and way too many no calls, especially stalling and fleeing the mat.  When your average wrestling fan in the bleachers sees a wrestler pulling another out or blatantly crawling out of bounds to avoid wrestling, the official should be able to recognize the situation and make the call.  Some of the SH kids laid on bottom in nothing but a defensive position in order to not get pinned (such as the Pendley/Storey match).  Maybe a valid strategy to avoid bonus points but by rule, bottom has to work to improve.  I wrestled in and have been watching wrestling in Region 1 for years and this has always been the case.  The quality of officials we have on this end of the state is simply bad.  Notice that none of the officials from here ever get chosen to call state, this is why.  Unfortunately we have all learned to accept the issue and try to work through it. 

I talked to some of the THS coaches following the match and they were disappointed with some of those calls but said bottom line, the calls didn't decide the outcome of the match.  Coaches and wrestlers realize they have some things to "fix" but will be ready next week for Regional Duals. 

And what are the chances, everyone on the board is talking about Region 1 wrestling today--that in itself is pretty cool in my opinion.