BobCorker

2 hours ago, BraydenlPalmer said:

I never get on here and don’t respond to anything, but I got on here today to make a post about me trying to set up camps and clinics. I saw this and was disappointed and felt like responding.

 First off, I've seen many of these posts before about talking about how disappointing it is that we don't have a Tennessee All-American almost every year on some sort of social media. Second, almost all of you haven't been a Division 1 All-American or even wrestled Division 1 at all. It was Cody's first year, and he lost two studs. He'll be back and all American, maybe even a couple times, no doubt in my mind. The next thing is, who cares if kids go to Division 1? If they can afford it, why not go chase your dreams? The only thing I'd say is don't go into a crazy debt to wrestle in college because there are other things that are more important in life, but if you can afford it and a D1 team wants it, go for it. It just annoys me when people act like it's an easy thing or all Tennessee guys are a disappointment each year because they weren't an All American when we are battling through so many injuries and I'm destroying my body and can't even stand up before weigh-ins because the weight cut is so hard on my body. Granted, I shouldn't have wrestled at 125 at all, but I'm just using it as an example. We are giving it everything we have, and I'm sure the other Tennessee guys like Cody and Cooper where to. It's just a hard tournament with countless killers in each weight. We should celebrate any TN guy that gets the opportunity to wrestle Division 1 or any level in college because it's most of our dreams to do that, and we are just trying to chase them

You might be surprised but some on this board did wrestle DI.  I don't believe anyone said they were disappointed in you.  You are one of the few that actually made it. You should be proud that you made it.  It was mentioned that everyone here knew you had DI potential. There are people who realize how tough it is just to start and to qualify.  I believe ocean made it clear that it takes a special person to do what you just did.  

With all of that said, I don't think it changes the points that have been made.  The vast majority of wrestlers in the United States should not wrestle D1. This includes TN.  Many, but not all, would be better served by wrestling at a lower level.  Those opinions are not based on you or what you did at UTC.  Those opinions are based on looking at stats from the last 60 years of college wrestling.  The DI attrition rate is very noticeable. The crux of the argument has been based around TN's attrition rate and how it relates to the progress the state has made. That leads to questions and discussion about what is best for most wrestlers.  I do not see where anyone claimed they were disappointed in Brayden Palmer.  I don't believe anyone here acted like it was easy; in fact, we have stated that the rigor has been unbearable for most. 

45 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

Good lord, grow up. Its not "hotly debated". You're just flat wrong. The only person who lost any credibility is the one who continues to say they wouldn't encourage kids to wrestle at the highest level possible. You're just a miserable, sad person and i genuinely hope, with everything i have in me, that you never coach anybody. Ever. 

 

Go ahead and tell Brad that you don't think Landon shouldn't go to Ohio State because TN kids don't do well in D1. Tell him that he, as a father, made a mistake in allowing his kid to sign with them because YOU think he, and others, are better served at a lower division. Go ahead. 

 

Just do us all a favor and have nothing to do with TN wrestling moving forward, because you CLEARLY don't care about the future of it. If you did you'd want kids to get to the biggest programs possible. And beyond that who are you to tell them they don't have what it takes? 

 

Absolutely pathetic. Shameful and pathetic. Do us all a favor and leave. 

Getting kids to the biggest level possible and having them drop out and quit the sport in two years is not helping the state of TN, WrestlingGod.  In fact, it is doing the opposite.  It has been 96 years since the first NCAA tournament, and TN has produced 7 AAs.  Pennsylvania produced more just this year alone.   

When UTC was DII, we had more local kids have success.  Those successful wrestlers turned into many fine coaches in our area.  Legendary TN coaches wrestled at MTSU.   If we had more former successful college wresters in TN who returned to coach, then TN would grow immensely.  

I don't think anyone can tell one individual kid that he should not go DI.  Every kid has to make that choice on his own- hopefully with as much historical information as possible.   DI coaches need room/depth guys. They have to recruit those guys as well.  The fact of the matter is that most TN kids in the last 15 years have been depth guys who did not pan out.  Some depth guys are late bloomers and get to college and turn into studs.  Happens every year.  Some kids are happy going DI and being a depth guy with the chance of developing into a DI starter.  

1 hour ago, desselle said:

I wasn’t going to comment but all I say is I’m glad you 2 are not in his circle. You are the exact people I tell my kids to avoid as they will only drag you down with them. I want my kids to be surrounded by like minded people that want them to achieve greatness. 

Don't take it so personal.  No one is telling you that you made a bad decision.  

If someone tells a kid:  You could probably go to Nebraska and if you work really hard you might make the lineup and be an NCAA qualifier.  You could also go to Washington and Lee and compete for DIII titles.  You might win a DIII title.  The time requirements are not the same, and it might allow you to get a degree in Economics and pursue a career with Goldman Sachs right out of undergrad. That conversation isn't dragging them down; it is most certainly not bad parenting.  That is giving them options and setting them up for success.  Plenty of kids have DI aspirations but realize that DII/DIII/NAIA are better options.  We are not saying kids should never take the chance of cracking a DI lineup; we are simply looking at 60 years of results.  If a kid has all of the information, then they can make their own decision.  We are saying that most kids don't have all of the information, so they feel that it is DI or bust.  The reality is it doesn't work for most kids across the country. 

Most kids who are ranked on recruiting big boards will never sniff AA.  Only 8 kids per weight class can claim that distinction at the DI level.  Each DI room is filled with Fargo AAs, Super 32 AAs, and 4x State Champs who never see the mat.  Use Chase Horne at NC State for example.  4x champ, Fargo Finalist, Super 32 Champ- has yet to break the lineup and next year they have Isaac Trumble coming off redshirt at Heavy.  Horne is awesome and may still make it, but it is not easy at that level.  

28 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

Yeah, im not going to tell the kids i've coached not to chase their dreams because statically it probably wont work out. That's awful life advice. And no, im not "hung up" on d1 being the end all be all, my oldest child's godfather was a d2 national champ and coahces at Newberry. I've sent kids his way plenty of times. But man, i just cannot grasp the idea of telling kids not to follow their dreams or go try and get a spot on the best school they're capable of getting into becuase they may not make it. That's just pitiful 

 

Also, to add on, we've got more kids now in this moment that are capable of making an impact on a d1 roster than we've ever had before (chittum, the uhorchucks, jakobs, desselle, hilton, flynn etc)

I think it is worse "life advice" to not be honest.  One of the worst mistakes an adult can make is to put a kid in a situation where they are in over their heads.   Adults make this mistake all of the time.  They put kids in AP Calc when they should be in regular math.  They try to sneak their way into an elite school when they should actually send them to a state school for half of the cost.  They send them to college when they should send them to get their apprenticeship for a local electrician.  Not only do life long outcomes change in this scenario but a kid's happiness also changes.   

Kids often have dreams that are not grounded in reality.  They are making decisions based on 2-3 years of "real world" experience.  Adults should be able to analyze 30-40 years of data/evidence/life experience in order to give young adults the best advice.  

While most won't admit it, it is more about the parents than the kids.   Johnny's dad is sending his kid to Vanderbilt, so we can't send our kid to ETSU.   Billy's dad posted on social media that Billy signed to Nebraska, so how could we possibly send our kid to Wabash College to wrestle. 

I also disagree on the current crop of TN kids.  The crop of early 2000s kids was better.  5 of the 7 AAs from our state came out of that crop.  In the same time frame we also had Rusty Blackmon, Jake Yost, Kevin Ward, Darren McKnight, Kyle James, Patrick Simpson, Corey Manson, Jason McCroskey, Brandon Wright, Shawn Cordell, John Lane, and probably more that I am forgetting.  Almost all had meaningful college wrestling experiences. 

I actually agree with oceansize42 for the most part. Every other state is still progressing and improving at a significant rate as well.  While TN might be closing the gap a bit, it comes down to a numbers game. 

There are only 30-40 college programs that are actually competitive. Each school has 4-6 years of recruits and kids are pigeonholed to one weight class.  

TN puts 3-4 in DI every year. PA puts 30.  If 25 of the 30 from PA never pan out, then they still have a good showing.  If all 4 kids from TN fail to make it, then it looks like a barren landscape.  

Signing with a D1 college is the easy part.  TN kids/parents act like they have achieved the pinnacle by signing DI. I suspect this is because most of the parents never wrestled DI themselves and they don't know anyone who did. The fact of the matter is that most kids who sign DI will never start.  The ones who start will probably have a hard time of ever making it to the tournament.  For some the opportunity to be on a good team or go to a good school like Stanford might be worth the risk of not ever having success.  

For many kids in TN and other states, they would have a much better experience if they went to Washington and Lee or Cumberland University. (Depending on academic aspirations).  Look at Sammy Shires as an example:  I would argue that he is having a much better experience of being a 2x AA in NAIA than some of our guys who are going off to be 3rd string at an ACC school.  Having more kids have success at the lower levels would keep more in the sport for a longer time.  This would translate to more of them returning home and entering the coaching ranks.  Our state would actually grow more over time if our best didn't flame out in 2 years at a big school.  There is a lack of education of the big picture landscape in TN. 

Tennessee D1 All-Americans

With NCAAs concluding, I thought it might be fun to revisit the 7 TN natives who have made it on the podium. 7 AAs puts TN just below the country of Japan when it comes to NCAA All-Americans. The drought now extends to 15 years since TN had an AA.  TN high school wrestling is traveling more and getting decent results, but it is not translating to college. If UTC would have stayed DII, the guys who qualified this year and many others who are buried on rosters could make up a pretty good team DII team.  

Any thoughts one who might be the next TN AA?  My pick is Jarvis Little for App State. 

Bill Harlow-  St. Andrews School/Oklahoma State

1964- 2^nd

1965- 2^nd

1966- 1^st

Howard Langford- Cleveland/UTC

1992- 8^th

Phillip Simpson – MBA/West Point

2003- 3^rd

2004- 8^th

2005- 2^nd

Matt Keller- Bradley Central/Nebraska/UTC

2006- 8^th

2007- 4^th

Cody Cleveland- Tullahoma/McCallie/UTC

2008- 8^th

Jordan Leen – Baylor/Cornell

2007-8^th

2008- 1^st

2009- 3^rd

Nick Marable Christian Brothers/Missouri

2008- 3^rd

2009- 7^th

On 3/21/2024 at 4:15 PM, WrestlingGod said:

He couldnt get ANY offense going. Everything he tried was immediately shut down by Askey. 

He is too young. Word on the street is that he will do a Mormon mission followed by a redshirt to catch up. 

Perhaps an objective way would be to compile a list of Fargo, U15, U17, and U20 AAs in the last decade

I think we need to get Cleveland wrestling its own soap opera!  The melodramatic culture would be a hit!  

13 minutes ago, CarlSpackler88 said:

Bob is wrong. Shane Chittum isn't combining with Cleveland. LOL

Notice that Cordero's dad didn't deny the looming wrestle-off...  It's happening.  They are also picking up the number one recruit in Grundy County. 

1 hour ago, wssm said:

Apparently there are kids all the way back to 3rd grade waiting to take his place. They won’t even notice he’s gone.

Rumor has it that a merge between Boom Ranch and Cleveland is happening.  Apparently the Boom Ranch staff will be named recruiting coordinators as Cleveland looks to upend Wyoming Seminary next year.  Sounds like they have a big pickup from Texas moving in! 

13 hours ago, CorderosDad said:

You're right anyone can be replaced and yes a lot of other coach's can coach technique. I just think Josh is has a special talent of getting these kids to listen and buy in to what he is teaching. To me that is what separates him from most coach's. I don't know every coach so I will not say nobody else couldn't do it but you're taking away the success he has accomplished by basically saying anybody could do it and I disagree with you on that

How will it work next year with little Chittum and your boys?  Will we see Jose up at 120? 

1 hour ago, FR615 said:

I think he still gets to compete just not seeded? Think it’s a 64 man bracket but could be wrong. Maybe I’m dead wrong and others can correct me? Dylan is a stud. Think they are just releasing the seeded wrestlers right now. Won’t release brackets until a day before or day of. 

32 man bracket.  Each state has an allocation of qualifiers.  TN gets top 2.  Anyone beyond that has to apply for a wildcard and acceptance is based on a kid from another region not entering and using an allocated spot.  When it comes to wildcards, it has nothing to do with merit.   It takes a little luck to get in the tournament if you don't qualify automatically 

1 hour ago, texas23 said:

who cares where any of these kids began their wrestling journey?  This seems like a bunch of crybabies looking for something negative to throw at one program that is not exactly like their program.  Youth coaches do not own the kids, how can a person going to another program be considered "stealing"?  The Bob Coker post is informational, but has no value at all.

 

 

I think we are actually in agreement.  I don't care where their journey started.  I have been on the record on here as saying kids should be able to move and transfer to get the best opportunities.  I do care that idiots like TreyB and others who claim their program is 100% in-house.  Every successful program benefits from kids moving around; some programs like to pretend it doesn't happen. 

7 hours ago, matpitts81 said:

We’re developing our own too.  

I have been calling for McCallie to be the favorites since October. Nice job on getting it done! You are good down low and up top and that is hard to beat in a dual meet.  By my account, you developed ~35% of your current lineup.

Lane- 1^st year at McCallie- Soddy club/Boom Ranch

Ritiche- 2^nd year at McCallie- Soddy club/Boom Ranch

Connell- all you

Williams- 1^st year at McCallie- as mentioned above the family currently lives in NC, but they are doing a Deuce McKnight type deal.

Pierce- 2^nd year at McCallie- boarder from Atlanta

Villars- 1^st year at McCallie- Boyd/Boom Ranch

Ledbetter- 1^st year at McCallie- Boyd/Boom Ranch

Morgan- 1^st year at McCallie- boarder from Cookeville

Ryan- 2^nd year at McCallie- boarder from Charlotte, NC

Voiles- 2^nd year at McCallie- Gordon Lee

Cross- all you

McMahan- all you

Gentle x2- all you

3 hours ago, TheTreyB said:

Speaking of…. How many kids from Baylor are still wrestling in college??? @BobCorker

Not sure why you are asking only about Baylor. Lot of TN prep school kids get college opportunities. Often times to good schools. 

MUS

Ian McGehee

Lakeway

Keyveon Roller- UVA

Colby Dalon- Kent State

Brayden Ivy- West Virginia 

McCallie

Emory Taylor- Pittsburgh

Gavin Cagel – UVA

Alex Whitworth- Harvard

Baylor

Nick Corday- Michigan State

David Harper- UTC

Gunnar Garriques- UChicago

Mason Reiniche- Oregon State

Andrew Pace- Harvard

Mason Alley- Indiana

Jackson Bond- Reinhardt

Omaury Alvarez- North Carolina

Christian Brothers

Gervacio Gonzalez - Navy 

Garrett Bowers- Air Force

Aidan Bowers- NYU

Wills Bronson - John Carroll

6 minutes ago, TheTreyB said:

 

McCallie and Baylor might not always have the strongest teams, but they seem to put a lot of kids in college. I assume the college coaching staffs think they have been developed enough to take a chance on them?  Turns out they might want to check-in with the Cleveland youth dads before offering.  

3 minutes ago, FrecoFanatic said:

See, once again you are full of crap and spouting off about things you know nothing about. For someone who complains about others being “arrogant” you seem to be a pot calling a kettle black because of the people I have listened to on here, you seem to be the one that thinks he knows absolutely everything. What team have we not given its due? When did you ever ask what teams we think are pretty good? When did I say Buford was not a good team (answer: I never said that). Buford has a very good team and I was simply quoting what came directly out of the mouth of some of the Buford people I am fairly good friends with as to why they only brought 9. Maybe you know some people closely connected to the program as well and they are saying something different. And just so you can’t make any more bull crap up about us “not giving any other team its due”, I will go ahead and say the team I was most impressed with this year was Brownsburg. They won the Carnahan we went to and placed 5th at and it was unreal how good they were top to bottom. I was pretty dang impressed with State College and South Dade as well in PA and Florida. Bishop McCort has one of the very best high school wrestlers I have ever seen (and I have seen a lot). There are a lot of teams we would get beat pretty bad by across the country, and I think LHP is one of them. We were not scared to wrestle them and it’s none of your business why we did not. But yeah, we learned about all those teams like Brownsburg by staying in TN and beating up on “lesser opponents” as we are accused of. We learned that by being “scared.” Bro, we travel more than just about any public school in the South. It seems to me like many of you on here are pretty disconnected from wrestling. Lol. Let’s go ahead and get into a debate about awareness of wrestling outside of TN (you ask the people on here that know me and they will tell you that you are not winning that one). And for all these “enlightened geniuses” on here talking about winning streaks, I never said we won 135 in a row, and honestly I do not keep up with it because it is not important to 90% of us that are in the program; but, I do know (because I have been in this game a long time) that 22 dates (not including post-season) is way more duals than 15 or 20. Heck, three dual tournaments is 15. I also know that my team would have to actually have a winning streak before I started chiming in on other people’s. Listen, if it makes you feel better trying to explain away our success and diminish anything our kids have accomplished to make you feel better about yourself or  your team or whatever, then have at it. If it makes you feel better to make up stuff like “we never give any other team their due,” go ahead.

paragraphs are your friend

1 hour ago, TheTreyB said:

This post is laughable. Would LOVE for you tell tell him this very thing. Hahahaha

It’s not hard to see what happened here.  Cleveland released their schedule in October and had LHP scheduled for Jan 6^th.  At the time of scheduling, LHP had holes at 106,190-285.  Bosken had done the math, and thought Cleveland was going to beat them and lay claim that they are the premier program in the SE.  They probably already had billboard space purchased on I-75.  LHP had other plans and picked up several kids from Illinois, Virginia, and Connecticut. 

The writing was really on the wall after Cleveland underperformed at the Powerade.  The only kids who placed for Cleveland were the move-ins. The lifelong HCWC kids got waxed. LHP finished 81 points ahead of Cleveland.  At that point, Bosken recalculated the math and told Coach Knox they had zero shot.  Their streak of beating up East Hamilton, McMinnville, and Sale Creek was in jeopardy.  Cleveland has won 200 dual meets in a row but hasn’t faced a top 50 opponent during that streak.  It is, and always has been, about their image. 

I do think I will yell down over the railing Saturday morning and inquire.  Maybe they will reimburse me for my plane ticket to Orlando.  I was heading down to watch Tennessee's best wrestle before I heard the news. 

2 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

they were supposed to face Lake Highland Prep but somehow that fell through! I do wish they would have Camden county or Buford up to the Cleveland duals, I also think Jefferson GA was supposed to be at the Cleveland Duals this year but didnt make it.  

Wow, I didnt know Jefferson isnt as good as they usually are, finished 4th in their division in state duals

It fell through because Coach Knox called and cancelled it once he saw just how good LHP was this year.  LHP picked up a few mid-year transfers and Bosken + Knox got scared.  #madeincleveland #doitforthegram

18 hours ago, Ummmno said:

Nobody is bent out of shape with Cleveland getting relocations or recruits or transfers or money or anything else...

 

..we're getting bent out of shape with them coming on here and saying none of that is happening and the entire of their success is SOLELY because of them outworking everybody and Bosken and Knox. 

Well then I am in agreement with you.  Take away the Fowlers and Szymborski and they don't even win state in D1 this year. They do work hard and pour into their youth, but they seem afraid to admit they greatly benefit from recruiting.  But they call out other programs for doing it?  That being said, I stand by my statement: they are using the same formula as any other top 50 teams in the county. And they should keep using it.  No one is getting there with kids from one elementary school.  We need more top 50 teams, not less. 

2 minutes ago, Dogs26 said:

As Lucas Szymborski is originally from Crown Point, he moved to Middle TN, because his dad made a move for a career opportunity. He then moved to Cleveland, because at that time the program he would have been in was unstable and he was use to a top tier program back in Indiana. His dad was able to make another career move, so it worked out to put Lucas in a program where iron sharpens iron PERIOD! Any real competitor needs to be pushed daily to be the best. Bosken and Knox are more than Coaches, they care about these kids like they were their own. If you think they have it easy, then you really don’t know the character of these guys or their staff. At the end of the day Alan Jones is who he is, but has never offered the Szymborski's a cent. 

All this negativity is why youth sports is getting a bad name and why America is such a mess. God bless America, because we need it more than ever!

I get it brother! I am pro transfer and pro freedom. Do what you want; it's America!  We need more strong programs like Cleveland!  The Szymborski family ran into Bosken and the rest is history.  Who wouldn't want to move to Cleveland, TN! Bosken is one of the best developers of talent in the state, but his recruiting is really underrated.  Imagine what he would do if he went to a boarding school? 

22 minutes ago, littlejohnny said:

With it being confirmed that Baylor will be without two of their best tomorrow, I’m going to reverse my pick and anticipate coming home happy tomorrow night. 

Baylor now should see the risk in buying talent every year versus developing it. Not saying we haven’t bought some ourselves lol but at least we’ve developed some and still have kids coming up through our middle school program. After what transpired this week, could this be the beginning of the end for Baylor’s administration’s commitment to running a recruiting only program?

McCallie by fiddy! Go Big Blue!

Largely uneducated post.  Boarding schools like Baylor and McCallie take in around 300 boarding students a year.  They kick out roughly 20 of those kids a year. Look up the attrition rate for NAIS member schools.  The next year, they fill back up at 200.   If Baylor and McCallie don’t fill those 300 beds with some athletes, who do you think they should fill them with? Violinist? Who would you put in those beds if you ran the school?  Baylor had 2-3 boarders in their lineup this year and McCallie has 2-3 as well.  Pretty small percentage. 

So talent who are developed from a young age, in house, are immune to making high school mistakes?  Got it.  I have to assume there has never been a kid at Soddy or Bradley who has ever gotten in trouble.  In fact, I have it on good authority that every kid in Soddy is a teetotaling virgin.

Cleveland has cracked the formula to be a top 50 team in America.  They have a great youth program that attracts other talented youth kids to move there.  They get kids to move in from the area and other states to help supplement what they are developing.  This is not a bad thing as it is the exact formula that nearly every top 50 team in the United States uses.  If you think Crown Point, IN is full of kids that came out of their youth club, then you are naïve.  

Cleveland has recruited well and operates much like a private school.  Kids like Ethan West and Tristan Blansit lived in Georgia but were able to use school of choice to attend Cleveland.  Grant Lundy was able to switch to Cleveland.  The Fowlers relocated.  Jax Ernst moved in from Texas. Lucas Szymborski came from Crown Point, IN.  Cody Chittum was a mercenary for a month. Undoubtedly they are moving because they perceive it will enhance their kid's life. 

Only in Tennessee do people get bent out of shape about it.   Other states that have multiple teams ranked in the top 50 understand that these teams are basically local all-start teams.  Look at Edmond North or Stillwater and tell me how many kids grew up in those communities.  TN should be embracing what Cleveland is doing instead of all the disparaging remarks. We just need about 5 more Clevelands and the state might make some noise post high school. I still don’t understand why they cancelled the LHP dual… I think they might be quietly trying to replicate Brandon’s streak and will only take duals that they are sure they will win.

10 hours ago, Rasslinking said:

Unfortunately for them the culture of programs ALWAYS prevails in the end.

 

 Relationships win

 

 Father Ryan..... BACK TO BACK

 

Father Ryan will certainly have a good shot to win but please don't act as if they haven't had their own issues over the years.  It was just a few years ago that several of their guys had to leave for live-in-rehab.  News flash:  high school kids do stupid things, and it's getting worse not better with younger generations.  

When was the last time Father Ryan won a traditional state tournament? You know, the one that concludes the season.