Smart coaching.

Have any of you heard of wrestling for a "true 4th"?

Isnt this why we wrestle?  

We wrestle for championships.  Top of the awards stand.  

Yes we like to know who was #2, #3, #4, and if my kid #16 because he got there!  

We also like to know which team in which region has who, what, when, where and how.

But we wrestle for championships.

Every kid in AAA has the opportunity to stand on the top.  No matter where he came from.  Best region, worst region, most kids, least kids, the functional word here is OPPORTUNITY.

Everything else is for the chat boards and its GREAT!  But any kid from any area of our state in AAA, A-AA, D2, has that OPPORTUNITY to take the top spot.

 

On 2/5/2018 at 9:37 AM, fooseball95 said:

I’ve never complained about only being able to bring 2 teams lol? It’s a rule and been that way. I could careless because chances are the championship is gonna gontheough region4 anyway. So if Cleveland doesn’t make, I’ll cheer for Bradley and then Soddy. Us region 4 guys cheer for each other to keep it in our area. Kinda like how middle Tennessee is whenever they want to win over a Chattanooga area team. But it is what it is.

Back in the day (oh yeah....one of those guys....lol)......

District  - Region - State.  Top four from District >REGION.  Top four from region>STATES!

32, the number of perfection in state wrestling.

You hated your crosstown rival in your district, but the qualifying 4 became a band of bothers heading into their Region, hating the other districts.  The top four of your Region became a new band of bothers headed to McClelland.  Everybody from all the districts in your Region became your cheering section in Chattanooga.  Memphis versus the world.  Nashville versus the world.  Knoxville versus the world and Chattanooga versus the world. 

Lets be clear, HATE = HEALTHY RESPECT.   That boy from East Ridge.  This guy from Father Ryan.  

Yeah.  The good ol days!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Take this with you.   Many have seen it. 

If not, enjoy!  And have a GREAT Region!!

 

THE CHAMPION

He was a man of flesh and blood. He wasn't made of rock.
Angel, devil, child, - man of ordinary stock.
But somehow he was different - true athletes always are-
For as he cursed, sweated, and bled, he took pride in the scar.

They told him to win like a man, no matter what the cost;
So many times he ventured forth; so many times he lost.
And when they turned around and said, "It's OK son, you tried,"
He clenched his headgear in his fist, and like a man he cried.

But from his tears came anger; then, when it ceased to spin,
He rose again, determined that next time he would win.
His trembling body strengthened; his heart soared in sky.
His darkened soul stood flaming; there was fire in his eye.
He worked and worked relentlessly; he struggled and he strained.
His conscience whipped him mercilessly for every ounce he gained.

He ran on legs like pistons; his muscled arms grew sore;
He'd tell himself, "I have to" then ask himself, "What for?"

And then, at last, the reckoning: the final hour was here,
His stomach tightened dangerously, his muscles tensed with fear.
Weak-kneed, he shook the challenger's hand-
And then, as one possessed,
His instincts gave him power, and his body did the rest.

It suddenly was ended. His body seemed to scatter.
A crowd was cheering somewhere, but to him it did not matter.
One thought was gleaming in his brain, a thought that made him smile.
He's given it all he had, and that's what made it all worthwhile

He stood and faced his teammates, with pride instead of shame.
He knew not that he'd won or lost, but that he'd played the game.

And some call him THE WRESTLER, and some call him A MAN,
But he called himself a WINNER...

And the ref held up his hand.

41 minutes ago, cbg said:

Yes, the wrestling community could lead the way with the TSSAA and DEMAND  the individual state wrestling tournament become a unified state tournament again.  This will not happen due to self serving adults that want to legislate a state medal or championship for "Little Johnny" or school X.

1.  Other than travel cost give me one good reason for the D2 state champions to forgo the National Prep School Championships to compete in a Grand State Championship.  I know that Oklahoma and other states have tried to promote a Grand Championship event and no state has experienced very much success.

2.  Are there any hard stats that prove multiple classifications specifically help the growth of wrestling in a state?  I have truly searched and was not able to find any.  The only thing I was able to find was that yes some states had good growth but that was due more to population increases than multiple classifications.  The population of Tennessee is 6.6 million and we have 199 schools in 3 divisions that now offer wrestling.  Pennsylvania has 12.5 million in population and have around 850 schools wrestling and they only have 2 divisions.  

3.  If the officials truly want to help grow and promote Tennessee Wrestling I would suggest they look at beginning a dual match with another state much like the Dapper Dan in Pennsylvania or the Iowa vs USA Dual.  Find a state such as Virginia or Maryland that you can actually compete with and not a state that you would drop the hammer on.  Maybe even try to get on the calendar to compete in the Dapper Dan against the WPIAL team but we would be lucky to win 3 matches.  

4.  One of the quickest ways to increase the talent level in Tennessee is for the Freestyle & Greco Roman numbers to increase with youth and middle school wrestlers.  I understand that Folkstyle is promoted in the offseason by high school coaches because many did not grow up around the international styles, don't understand the rules of international wrestling and truly don't feel they have the time to learn something different.  I can appreciate that but at the same time when most every college program in America is in attendance at the USA Wrestling Cadet/Junior Nationals in Fargo, ND it only makes sense for our best kids to attend and make a solid showing if they want to be recruited and have options.  They have zero chance of doing well if they are not trained properly.

You ask for some suggestions and I tried to provide you with a few ideas.

 

 

You did.  And very good ones.

I like your crawl, walk, run approach.

 

7 hours ago, cbg said:

The D2 State Champions are invited and attend the National Prep School Championships the week after the state tournament.  Why for any reason would they forgo the opportunity to be a national prep school champion or all american to compete in a State Grand Championship event?  Compared to other state tournaments the national preps are considered one of the top 5 championships for high school wrestlers.  The D2 coaches worked to for many years to have the Tennessee State Champions invited.

I suppose that would be their choice.

Do you have a better option?

14 hours ago, thepaintrain said:

Easy there. 

This is Tennessee, we are resigned to the fact of inconsistency, and differing rule interpretations. 

Hate the way they rotate. The match got called three different ways. Could you imagine how frustrating it would be for a pitcher to have a different umpire every batter. Pitchers adjust to the umps zone. Wrestlers do the same thing. 

I would agree with this.

22 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

I think we have all resigned ourselves to the fact that many of the officials in Tennessee want to be the center of the show and insert themselves in too many match situations.  Case in point, you said yourself you haven't been here in a couple of years but felt the need to come on and mention the officials.  Typical official behavior. 

That being said, there are some VERY good officials in our state and the officiating at State seemed decent for the most part.  There are always those head scratchers where you are wondering how the official's regressed back to their teenage days when they can't hold their own temper and decide to insert themselves and make a difference in the match.  The Arlington match is a good example.  No excuses but I'm not sure that was the proper call.  

I was complimenting all those that participated without feeling the need to feel they had find a scapegoat in officiating.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the kid from Arlington blew his nose on the mat?  That is what I understood, though it was not my match.  I could be citing the wrong match, but I know this incident involved Brentwood.
-------------------------

Reading up thread if the call in question was regarding an escape point, then I am in error.

14 minutes ago, DaBears1976 said:

I would have paid double to have seen a Knox Fuller vs Eli King matchup last year. 

I think I would STILL pay to see it.

48 minutes ago, mat73557 said:

Although I like the idea of bringing back one unified state tourney, that does not grow wrestling.  We all know that.  If we ever want our state to compete at the same level as any wrestling state you can name, we have to keep attracting more participants to the sport.  I don't like some of these situations where a kid wins 2 matches and he's a state champ any more than anyone else but the split drove the numbers up and that is what we need in TN. JMO

Two possibilities.

1.   Could you double the entry price of the traditional tournament?  Hate to break it down like that, but if you could demonstrate people would pay for that event, it would be a no brainer.

2,   Would wrestlers, coaches, administrators be willing to extend the season one more week and have a Grand Championship of the top four placers (or top 3, whatever makes the numbers work),  all divisions the week following the traditional state for a Grand Champion?
 

Hat tip to this thread. I havent been here in a couple of years, but at the Duals all weekend.  

For 18 pages the officiating has gone unsathed.   The back and forth has been excellent.

Pulled an MJ?  Meaning undeserved victory?

 

I was looking around sort of on the same page.

Now I do like to see all the action.  I paid for it, but to your point if you wanted to see it, you had to be in the center sections.

I love close action.  Nothing is better than to be mat side or as close as possible.  At Father Ryan  they used to be able to pull their bleacher sections close together and form a "pit." It was awesome and the bleachers with in ten feet of the mat on both sides.  The fans were right on top of you and you couldnt hear anything but it was fantastic.

Its hard to make it fair.  If you offered preferred seating and brought in matside seating, the Ryans, Bradleys, et al would snatch them up and the have nots would have less and be a detriment to our sport.

The Ag Center seems better attended each year.  

The kid couldnt continue?

He hit a granby roll when he was returned. And even if it WAS illegal why would the ref walk around the mat and listen to the coaches yell at him for him to decide it was illegal. Let the kids decide it on the mat.

And again, he granby'd when he hit the mat. He wasn't dropped on is head.

Best thread on coacht in a long time.

Call me a homer but I would love to see the Bears, Raiders and Trojans go 1,2,3 with Fuller getting the Best award.

You absolutely be a homer.  That is what made America Great!  

Back in the day, we went blood against our district, but at the Region were were against anybody against our district we hated them all.  We get to the state, we banded together against anyone in our district (#1) and our region (#2) against anybody else at McClellan.  

Chattanooga goes south into GA, I am for anyone from Chattanooga.  

Lets go to the NCAA's, UTC against anybody.  

Olympics?  Guess what?  RED, WHITE AND BLUE!!!  USA!

Yeah...call me a homer, extreme compliment!!!

Sounds like that D1 D2 thing got buried.  Finally.

After the past 20 years of all those people deciding whats best for wrestling, 

wrestling decides whats best for wrestling.

If anyone had a video of that I'd sure like to see it.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/high-school/2017/02/04/father-ryan-repeats-division-ii-duals-wrestling-champion/97391792/

Maybe they have been doing such reporting on high school wrestling for some time.  

Just Wow.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/high-school/2017/02/04/father-ryan-repeats-division-ii-duals-wrestling-champion/97391792/

Back in the day, it was designed to be a revival of the old Region 3 tournament from the 60;s, 70's, and 80s.  Participation was fantastic and it was a real slobber knocker.  Everyone of the Region competed with their A lineups.  We gave away good stuff for champions.  Once year we had to take back stuff that was deemed excessive.  I think they were watches that could be construed as payment or gifts or some such thing.  

It got so competitive we couldnt get A varsity wrestlers so much for fear of getting hurt or losing a seed, then the split didnt help.  We went to a Middle School tournament and it went through the roof again and began to hold the Freshman Tournament which became the Freshman Champions inside of the MTGCs.  We added the JV and now the Women's division.  The JV have generally been done on the honor system and mostly been heeded.

We had good numbers this year and look to improve/expand it a bit in 2018.

Ya'll come!

 

Former long time SD coach said it was the right call.  Its interesting when the official doesnt make the correct call in this situation and the kid cant continue this board fills up with "the ref should have stopped it earlier...... ."

This is not a question of officiating or wrestling,

this was a question of honor.

As soon as the trainer cleared him and the kid indicated willingness, the ref should have indicated "lets wrestle".  At that point the Smyrna coach would have had the option to throw in a towel to protect his kid.

This doesnt remove responsibility to the ref, only giving a way it perhaps should have gone.

I agree. It's unfortunate for any kid not to make weight at the Region Tournament. But, I don't think there should be a grace period in place to allow any kid the opportunity to make weight during weigh-ins.

Defeats the whole point of having a weigh in.

Is it just me or are there no Region 6 brackets up yet?  The little sign says not yet released to the public.

Never mind.

I knew as soon as I posted that it would show up.  I should have posted it yesterday!!!

Is it just me or are there no Region 6 brackets up yet?  The little sign says not yet released to the public.

As a coach I have seen refs become more consistent with the way they call matches personally, but have seen consistency from ref to ref or area to area become more of a problem. I have seen the video in question and have seen the exact scenario called (not for the 5 seconds heel to butt, but rather or not the top guy is actually trying to improve his situation to secure a pin) and uncalled.  I think a clarification of rules and movement more towards the college rules would benefit the sport. One in particular is stalling on the wrestler in control after the bottom wrestler has risen to his feet. Some referees use a five count (not in the rule book, but a good general reference) others simply call what they see as action/no action. I would prefer the rules be more exact, exampled by a vocal 5 count the moment bottom wrestler gets to his or her feet. This does put the top wrestler at a disadvantage, but it creates consistency which leads to easier instruction during practice. I would also like a clearer definition to stalling as it relates to effort, technique, and ability. Some refs call stalling for the lack of all three where others look at just one or two of the components and not the other. If the lack of technique or ability is stalling then it needs to be called consistently, which again would lead to better instruction. Just a couple of examples of this would be heavyweights becoming overpowered or top wrestlers riding or turning. 

More consistency is the answer.  Not more rules.