TheNoise

On the topic of girls being concerned with the coach at RHS liking or not liking them because of the club they choose, I can say based on my conversations with players and parents there the answer is most definitely yes. I’ve even heard some middle school players bring it up as a fear and wonder if they’d even try out vs just focus on club during high school. It’s a real shame that’s even being brought up, but it’s a fact. All I know is, if I was coaching a program where these concerns were lurking, I would be going out of my way to convince everyone that was not the case. Perception is reality, and if you’ve seen not only her demeanor on the sideline with this player, but others on the team as well, it’s not a reach to draw that conclusion (that the coach is upset about club choice and it’s impacting her relationship with her players). At the very least, there is a significant breakdown in communication. Typically when that is the case, and more than one player or families are getting an unintended message, might need to take a long look at adjusting said communication and clearing the air. 

5 hours ago, Osage said:

You might be right, especially for the kids who have enjoyed Open success in the past. But bear in mind, the exodus of Open-level players to TPV (as you know) created opportunities for Alliance kids who had previously been 2's and 3's kids to play Open for the first time. Imagine the season from their perspective. If you had told THOSE families back in January that their team wasn't going to finish in the top half of Open at AAU, do you think they'd have made a different choice? I'd bet a lot of of them were just happy to be there. Others might not have even really known what they were getting into ("What's Open?"). But now after a year competing against the best teams in the country, their standard for what constitutes high-level volleyball has now been re-calibrated. Bar is raised. That's not a bad result.

I do wish more of the former Alliance kids who are now at TPV were playing Open at AAU. I'm glad you guys are, it will be a good barometer for you to compare with previous finishes this group has enjoyed. But I was surprised the 18's and 14's kids weren't. Those are Open-level kids, many of whom will play for Power 5 schools.

Osage, again, there were only 2 divisions in 18's for AAU Nationals last week.  Apex (higher) and Pinnacle (lower).  I know there was an event in May for 18U, but that conflicted with Graduation and other locally important things to those kids.  I'm all for playing the best competition you can when it makes sense, and here the TPV 18 1's and 2's played the toughest schedule available to them.  The 14's played one level down and believe me, there were Open teams that would have struggled significantly against some of those teams in Premier, especially in the last few games.  Personally, if I were an Alliance parent of a kid who used to be a on a 2 or 3 team who had never played Open before and got routinely abused in Open, I'd be worried more about my kid's confidence going into next year vs proud of just doing ok.  The major Alliance kids that went to TPV everyone seems to talk about  ARE playing in Open (16 Alpha) and they did well today.  Not sure to which former Alliance kids you are referring. 

I guess my point is getting lost.  Across all divisions I saw teams that could have or should have played either up or down.  Not every team that enters has an AES ranking to go off of, but I saw plenty of teams get rolled and also roll others.  So it didn't seem to matter as much what division it was, you had plenty of excellent teams in Aspire and Classic while at the same time some really weak teams in Open and Premier.  The number of teams entered in Open seemed to be much smaller than other divisions.  Ultimately you'd like to see the division be a better barometer for the competition seen, but based on what I witnessed in the 12-14's and 18's age groups I watched, it was all over the board.

Alliance 13-1s - 24th out of 32 teams in Open

Alliance 14-1's - 25th out of 37 teams in Open

Alliance 15-1's - 29th out of 51 teams in Open

Alliance 17-1's - 20th out of 59 teams in Open

Alliance 18-2's - 9th out of 17 teams in Apex (18's equivalent to Open, highest division)

Like I said previously though, lots of teams playing down from what I could see.  Clubs like Kiva are pretty standard in how they distribute teams across divisions, but I saw several 1's teams that were as good as any I'd seen playing not just down a division, but way down.  Alliance showed well I thought, especially given that it appeared this was the first time to Orlando for AAU's for several.  12-1's for example, struggled the first two days, but really played well the last two and came into their own.  Some teams struggled and were probably playing over their heads a bit, at least in the 2's and 3's groups.  

Based on what I saw in wave 1, there's no rhyme or reason to what teams enter what division.  Some of the absolute best teams I saw were in Aspire and Classic divisions.  The breadth of competition across the board is staggering.  That being said, it certainly stands to reason that the consistency of competition is stronger the higher up you go, but depending on the draw regardless of division you can run into absolute buzzsaws.  All that aside, the 18's division of Apex was the highest option (only two available, Apex and Pinnacle).  I'm sure the TPV girls who played for that championship and won wouldn't trade that experience for anything in the world.  

Actually, we were both wrong. Alliance teams played TPV teams 6 times Saturday and 5 times Sunday. Saturday they went 0-6, Sunday they bounced back and went 3-2 head to head. Results are below taken from AES, exciting to finally see the two clubs play after the last year and a half of talk and back and forth. The game in middle TN is better for it. 

Saturday

13 Airborne lost to TPV-13 Yankee 25-11, 25-21

14 Molten lost to TPV-14 Yankee 25-12, 25-17

14 Premier lost to TPV-14 Foxtrot 25-21, 25-20

15 Airborne lost to TPV-15 Alpha 25-7, 25-9

15 Premier lost to TPV-15 Liberty 25-12, 25-14

16 Molten lost to TPV-16 Liberty 21-25, 25-21, 15-9

Sunday

13 REN won vs TPV 13-Zulu 25-11, 25-18

13 Molten won vs TPV 13-Yankee 25-22, 15-25, 17-15

14 Molten lost to TPV 14-Zulu 25-12, 25-19

16 REN lost to TPV 16-Alpha 25-16, 25-18

16 REN won vs TPV 16-Liberty 25-22, 23-25, 15-10

Tough day for Alliance today at AAU MLK Grand Prix. Went 0-5 against TPV head to head. 

If I had the time and my job allowed it, I would officiate in a heartbeat. I love the game and I fully recognize that it is a thankless job. I have, however, seen several times where officials were thanked and did a great job. We all know who the best officials are in our respective districts/regions.

The officials do, however, make a lot of money doing it. Volleyball officials are the highest paid TSSAA officials out there, from what I've been told. So it's not a "woe-is-me-I'm-a-poor-official" scenario. They know what they're getting into.

I guess this year's issues are magnified when compared to previous State Tournaments. If it were a few close calls here and there, that's understandable and normal. But I wouldn't call much of anything I saw at this year's State in the same hemisphere with normal...

Hey, that was not a challange, and I said I was on the other side of the court (behind team bench just behind service line (did I make the video? /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> ) so you would know where my angle was from. I think the fans in your bleacher had the best look especially if you were 5 or so feet closer to the net than the end line. As it has been said, it is all about the angles. Your judgement is always from your phisical position and what you can or can not see. I claim no expertise, just willing to share what little knowlege I have.

 

And as far as bad calls go, my first coach was an x-olympian. When we complained about a bad call he told us that if the officials were part of the game it was our fault - just put the ball down on the floor - not much judgement there.

 

I'm a 9 to 5 er so it is hard to make games. You'll probably be back to state next year, i'll try to as well. Hey, win or loose, it's where you want to end the season - just think of all the teams that would have loved the chance to be there in all its folly and glory.

That is a great way to think about bad calls, but it sure doesn't help when the score keeper's taking points away from you and giving it to the other team. I don't there's much that will ever make anyone feel good about that one.

I made my share of loud comments in the Boro last week about calls/scores/officials and I have avoided posting anything until now because I couldn't find a way to properly share my frustration without it getting out of control.

2 Major points that I want to reiterate that others have already brought up:

1- The best officials were not properly utilized. GLJ was there to call lines, should have been an up official. He was not the only top official not engaged. Most of those officials I have never even seen before. The selection process is obviously political, as are most things where T$$AA is involved. I would propose a rating system where after each regular season match, the official asks each coach to rate the match's officiating from an Up Official perspective. The tops scores would be chosen for State. As a fan, I'm going to disagree with calls on a regular basis, but that's part of the game. If the calls are consistent and flow with the rules of volleyball, I have no problem. When GLJ makes a call, I accept it without question (most of the time and move on, simply because I know how much he loves the game, and how much respect he has for the integrity of the sport. It was clear some of these people that were officiating were in it for the paycheck only and had no business doing what they were doing.

2- Apparently, to be selected as an official for the State Tournament, one only had to score an 80% on an open book test, along with meeting the subjective (read political) criteria from the T$$AA Leaders. They claim it was based on experience, but again, I didn't recognize 70% of those officials. Neither did those around me who are close with several. Should we be surprised that these issues cropped up? It was brought up by some folks from Siegel that they wanted to hire their own score keepers, who would have been the parents doing it all year long. They know what they are doing and how to keep up. T$$AA rejected the idea and brought in their own people who, at best, did this last year at the State Tournament. The excuses made for the Page/Boyd debacle were embarrassing for T$$AA, and sad. "So and So was distracted, the scoreboard was hard to operate, et cetera" Yet they would not come forward and apologize to Page players, who were really the victims here. At one point during the Page/Boyd game, the down official had his arm up to prevent the Up Official from calling for the ball to be served, but the up official started play anyway. The down ref had to be notified by the Page coaches that play was underway and he didn't step in to stop it. Clearly the communication of these "Seasoned Veterans" and "College Officials" left a lot to be desired.

One more thing that killed me, and GLJ if you could address this I would be interested in the official rule, is the lack of calling a lift when a player would receive a serve with their hands at chest level or lower. All through the season this was called a lift, even by some of the more junior officials. At least 75% of the time it was called. At State, several teams were getting away with ball handling murder. State is supposed to be where everyone is at the top of their game and mistakes are magnified due to what's at stake. It's as if there was a mandate by T$$AA to not call the games close from a ball handling perspective. Historically, the State Tournament was called close, and I always saw that as a good thing. It doesn't do anyone justice to allow people to play through violations as it cements bad habits for the players, and in some cases could cause skill regression. Then again, if the points you already scored are going to be taken away, I guess none of it really matters...

It's just disappointing that this year's State Tournament Officiaiting was such a dramatic drop off from previous years. I don't know if it was due to the smaller venue or what, but it was clear to everyone.

I'm finished with my rant now... I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Don't mess with CU, PH. She has seen a lot of things happen at Page and speaks from experience. Interesting about the football reference in that AD Jack Daniels is the football coach and probably should have communicated better with Coach Stone in the first place. None of this mess would have happened had he been more on top of the situtation. I hope that Senior Night goes well for the Page Seniors and I'm sure CU remembers some not so pleasant ones from the past. Good to hear from you CU as I always appreciate your insights.

Pageman, you are right about the communication issues, but it's not just the school/AD's issue with communicating with the Coaches. TSSAA didn't follow their own rules in alerting the school as they should. Apparently there is a TSSAA website that the AD's can check to verify coaching eligibilty and Coach Stone was never indicating on that site as non-compliant. I was as hard as anyone on the Page Administration on this issue, but they have stepped up to the plate and supported the coaches on this. There was another coach at Page with the same situation, asst. soccer Coach I think. Both of the coaches in question were able to get into the ASEP class this past weekend and resolve everything, thankfully, so nothing further is needed from TSSAA.

I, for one, would like to apologize for the harsh things I said about the Page Administration. I was upset for the girls and the Coaches and I'm glad to hear they have buried the Hatchet and are once again moving forward towards a common goal...

Hopefully all involved, including those in the stands can support this team fully without any hidden agendas or motives. /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

It is good news for the Page program. Who is the coach?

Mindy Stone and Karen Boots will Co-Head Coaches. Sharon Smith will remain as an Assistant Coach.

The original testing procedure had to be approved by member schools before it was enacted. It must have been for all sports. It has likely been in effect for some time. Times change. The way schools operate change. Why would not any procedure be looked at every few years to see if something has changed. it would be nice to know how many coaches got caught State Wide in this situation or did no one have a clue until this situation came up and now public alarm has arisen after knowing the impact. If there is a little truth in this, how about a moratorium. It's unfortunate that this sport is the first of a school year and relooking started a little later after school started and then catch a sport, along with football, after the fact. Has football been caught worse than VB and that's the real reason for the alarm?

But the public alarm might be the way Schools may have handled it, i.e., not keeping someone up to date and then dismissing by voicemail without disscussion. Now thats the fair way to do it with really no respect for those who work for you, if that happened. That procedure could happen to anyone in a School situation unless to call came to the School from someone with the TSSAA and said for every match this coach coaches you will be fined. As the rule reads, unless interpreted, that is not the case. Something was the rule, likely was overlooked, and someone overreacted in trying to get in compliance. Isn't that the way things usually happen?

No overreaction here.

-Fax came in from TSSAA saying Coach Stone was not in compliance because test was not passed.

-Coach Stone attempted to complete the online test, per the instructions of the ASEP testing body when she had her child prior to the deadline.

-Coach Stone was not able to access the online test due to the fact that her attendance of the class was more than a year past.

-Coach Stone asked ASEP how quickly she could take the class so she could once again have access to the test, either in person or online. The answer was October 25th (weekend before State).

-Coach Stone reached out to TSSAA asking if she could continue coaching if she took the course and passed the test on that October Weekend. TSSAA said no, plus school was fined $500.00.

-With the Help of County Administration, the School submitted a waiver request for TSSAA to allow her to continue coaching since it was mid-season. TSSAA said no.

-School informed Coach Stone via voicemail she was no longer the coach and must pay back the $500 fine if she wanted to coach anywhere in Williamson County.

What's interesting is here is that Coach Stone could take the online class and test right now and, in ASEP's eyes, be confirmed to know what she must to continue. TSSAA does not accept the online class, even though the content is identical. TSSAA says she can coach if she passes the test. These are the facts.

My biggest problem here is that TSSAA is not a machine that can only produce 1 type of thought, it is a governing body made up of people with hearts and minds. Why they can't recognize that there was no ill intent behind this mixup and allow Coach Stone to continue her work to HELP THE TEAM is what is so baffling here. Even Criminal Court judges make exceptions.

Even more interesting, according to the TSSAA handbook, Coach Stone could receive a Red Card at a match and be ejected, fined $250.00, and still continue coaching. She cannot continue coaching if she has not passed a test that, as one poster put it, a fifth grader could pass. Which is more harmful? If the intent is to ensure a coach possesses the knowledge required to execute her position, wouldn't the school be best informed to make that determination? I understand the intent behind the requirements, but no one would look at this situation and say this is following the spirit of those guidelines. We do not live in a vaccuum.

I would also like to add my $.02 to this discussion. There are a few key points that I think need highlighting here.

- If the TSSAA is communicating with the School as often as some here have indicated, why is it that the Page Administration did not come to the coaches and address this BEFORE THE SEASON?!? If TSSAA sent out a warning in 2008, I would love to see proof of this communication. I know it never made it to the coach. There are MAJOR communication issues at Page and this is just an example...

- Coach Stone attended the class in 2007, but has not been able to take the test. This is all that is missing. Does anyone with TSSAA or Page doubt the coach's knowledge regarding the subject matter? There is an ASEP test available online, but for some reason the TSSAA does not accept that version. They must not trust these fandangled internets...

- Calling non-faculty coaches "Volunteers" is only part right. The part that's correct is that the "salary" paid to these coaches is beyond meager. More often than not, these coaches end up spending more money than they make to get the job done when one considers travel expenses, child care (if needed), and supplies. Legally, they are an employee of the school system and must go through much of the same background checks, and employment eligibility requirements as "full-time" faculty and staff.

- The fact that the AD and Principal accept no blame whatsoever in this situation and have not apologized to the team, coach, parents, and all others involved is beyond reprehensible. How in the world someone is expected to just know something without their superiors informing them of that something is beyond me. In every business situation I have been involved in, it is the responsibility of the managers/supervisors to ensure their subordinates receive and understand messages related to their job requirements and responsibilities. Coach Stone repeatedly asked the AD for additional information on any requirements and he didn't even reply... Those who managed this situation fell on their face and are not fit to lead, coach, or teach our children. They should go before the team and coaches affected and say, ???I??™m sorry, we should have found out about this sooner and given you more notice to fix it. We let you down.??? What else is falling through the cracks? Does this scare anyone else?

- This clearly demonstrates a lack of concern about the student athletes at Page. No one can point to this and say this was good for the kids. It??™s bureaucratic bull feces like this that show TSSAA and this administration are so completely out of touch with reality and what is good for these kids. So she didn??™t take a test, big darn deal. She didn??™t know about it, and when she found out, she called everyone and their mother trying to rectify the situation and no one was willing to help, save a few very wonderful people at Williamson County School Board and County level administration. Apparently saying, ???Yes, I am aware of this and I will take the test as soon as you will let me??? is not good enough to continue coaching. The $500 is not an issue. As I mentioned before, the monetary compensation is a joke, these people do not coach for the Money. If Coach Stone could pay the $500 tomorrow back to the school and keep coaching, I am sure she would.

Unfortunately this will send a message to those who want to help/coach/assist to do so at your own peril, you will get zero support from Page. Have fun storming the castle??¦

I was also present for the Page event. Didn't have a problem at all with the kids yelling. Loved the enthusiasm! Need more of it! I can attest to GLJ's efforts to manage the non-player distractions, he did a fine job, as per his usual. I was more disappointed in the parents that became so angry they began stepping onto the court as the player was trying to serve. Anytime you've got a tournament setting where there are 2 nets on one gym, there's limited space on at least one endline, if not both. There were some things that went on there from some parents that were just incredible.

As a golfer and a tennis player, I can understand the distraction on the serve, but why is the serve any different from an attack, set, or pass? Are we saying it's ok to distract then, but just not the serve? That seems silly to me. I don't think the players hear much out there anyway. If they can't hear me yell, "Out!" when they are standing on the end line about to take the ball with their hands, they can't hear anything.

Any updates on DCA - Loretto?

Page Defeated Loretto 3-0 to win Region 6 A-AA Championship

Loretto Defeated Eagleville 3-0 to advance to Region Championship Game

Page Defeated Summertown 3-1 to advance to Region Championship Game

Didn't get to see the last two games, but the Girls from Page came through after dropping game 1 to Eagleville. The Lady Eagles defeated Van Buren in the first game tonight 3-0 (game one was very close). Page Defeated Community 3-1, where Community played very well, taking advantage of errors by the Patriots to take game 2. Nicole Smith won the Tournament MVP.

I'm sure Pageman will give everyone a much better report later...

Dearest PM,

You know I love you dearly. I love those parents of the Page girls. Some are dear friends. It is especially hard to hear those you love make caustic remarks to the young ladies. Much harder, I suspect, than it is to hear it from strangers.

 

I have yelled at refs and an occasional line judge (never the young ones). I even suggested once that our setter set to our hot hitter.

 

PM, we forget in the stands that it isn't about WE...it's about THEM. WE get upset if errors are happening...WE get anxious when our team start losing momentum...WE get angry when WE feel that the call was wrong. The question is, how do WE deal with those situations? Do WE show our humanity or do WE show something less? What will WE model?

 

I am not innocent here - I get involved - I've had to apologize to my friend GLJ! Of all people to yell at - I was so embarrassed of my behavior. Of course, WE are human and WE make mistakes. I pray WE can learn from them.

 

Let's remember the words of ComPassion and VballDaddy78 - it's about the kids.

That situation had to be tough. I was not at the game, but I'm sure I've seen similar things at various games. CU, you are right, it is about the kids. That's the number one thing to remember, but we all can get caught up in the moment. Every parent and fan of a team invests a great deal of time, energy, and passion into the team. When you have that type of emotional investment, it's easy to get carried away. I know I've done it. I'm usually the loudest person in the gym (hence the call sign...), but I doubt the girls on the court notice it much, if at all. I've already said I wasn't there, so I may be wrong on whether or not the team noticed/paid attention to it. I'd be willing to bet that there wasn't any pure malice attached that parent's comment, just passion for the game. But if you do ever find yourself in that situation again where you feel someone is out of line, say so. Even if it is me. ESPECIALLY if it's me. Although I have a feeling that I'd be hearing it from another authority figure if I do go too far with comments made from the peanut gallery...

If I'm this way now, imagine what it will be like when my kids are actually playing.... Someone may have to put me in shackles!

That's a great win for Page.

 

Anybody know how Lafayette has been doing. All I know is they defeated Page and LaVergne yesterday and Siegel today.

I'm sorry, I don't have any more info. It's been tough for me to touch base with folks actually there.

Siegel did beat Owensberg Catholic in three and has beaten Eastern in the first match of championship. They will play the winner of Notre Dame and page and page had won the first game of that match at last report. This thing will go on for a while. The crowds were good and Brad Davis's shoulders had drooped a couple of inches since the Tournament started. This tourney is a monomentus task and is staffed very well. Information is being phoned to a central play area and they know everything that is transpiring. I think that everyone decided to get out of their way and let them operate. This is a well run tourney.

Page did win vs. ND in 3

It's reported that Notre Dame won their two, both easily with full subbage.

Update via Text message from the site- Page goes 2-2 in the pool play today, loses to USJ and Danville, but beats Ezell-Harding and Notre Dame.

I don't have scores, just results....

Siegel over USJ, a very good team 25-20, 25-19 and siegeol ove a very scrappy Stone Memorial 25-18, 25-19. Stone played well.

Update on Page's two games, they played the game VS Lex TN w/o seniors Becca Shreeve, Katie Vanderberg, and setter Jennica McGuire. No injuries or discipline reasons, they just wanted to see what next years group could do together. They were without J. McGuire for both matches as she was not at the event for today. The other two seniors did play in the LafKY game. Cassidy Smith (SO) played in Jennica's place. Jennica will return for Page tomorrow.

I have heard that Page won their first match, which I believe was against Lexington, TN which did not count towards their pool play since North Bullit (sp?) pulled out. The Lady Patriots lost 25-12, 25-19 to Lafayette KY. Due to the fact that only two teams were in this pool, Page finished second.

Anyone else have any scores or results from this event?

I am trying. I have some leads, just hope they come through for me. I will do my best to find someone and hope and pray that I don't have a hole in the schedule.

Thanks for the reply, good luck!! I know it's going to be a great event!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I must be cursed. North Bullitt has backed out as of this morning so I am scrambling again. If you know of anyone, send them my way. What a day...a speeding ticket on the way to work, and now this. Sheesh!

Any luck on filling the spot vacated by North Bullitt in that particular pool? Also, if you have not found a replacement, will Page and Laf. KY have their schedules adjusted? -Thanks!