BEARCLAW

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> longhorn07, it's always good to see any high school athlete get a scholarship and get to play in college, no matter where they play. It's also good for fans to be behind their athletes, and everyone trys to get into the opposing player's heads. Sometimes it just gets carried away, but I guess that's basketball. Good luck in the Region! /hungry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hungry:" border="0" alt="hungry.gif" /> Bring on the hospitality rooms! /hungry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hungry:" border="0" alt="hungry.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Not nerves, but game spirit. Concentration, maybe. Seems as though I've seen some of the college shooters not just miss the goal, but the entire backboard. Maybe not on a foul shot, but don't judge a player's ability on one free throw. I guess he's supposed to be a seasoned college player, but still a senior in high school. I guess that's why all the colleges and recruiters have been to see him so many times the last 2 years. I would think thier evaluation of McBee's abilities would supercede yours or mine anyway since it's their opinion that really counts. Let's just hold our opinions until next year and see where he lands, and which school he chooses to play for. Saturday was not very competetive since all of Grainger's starting team either had the flu, were recovering from the flu, or were coming down with the flu. I won't patronize anyone by making excuses for the loss, so please show the same courtesy for not patronizing the win with all the team fighting sickness

/roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> I'm not going to comment on the tournament upcoming, but I love the screen name! I've known old "seymour" for years and he and I have had a lot of fun signing fake letters. Thanks for the reminder and the laugh! seymourbutts........... /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Well, there you go ernieg.......putting your two cents in where it wasn't invited. I just hate it when someone does that and is exactly right on the money! I don't think it could have been said better. Everything about the "night" should be "about" the kids. Maybe if things WERE more like you've posted we would see a great improvement in our young athletes on the court AND OFF. Doggone it ernieg, we had a good argument going, and you come along with your post and just slam the door. Guess it was about time. Good words, good advice. Thanks for ending things . /hungry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hungry:" border="0" alt="hungry.gif" /> Now, I can go on to the hospitality rooms for the remainder of the tournament games and enjoy the food. Hope you get a platefull yourself! /hungry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hungry:" border="0" alt="hungry.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Whew! Thank goodness you aren't an official, but if you were I'll bet you would be overpaid! Ha! Ha! I have no sore spots, so nice try. Answer me a question Dick. My original post was aimed at consistently poorly performing officials....... not the young ones, middle aged ones, nor the "experienced" ones. I have expressed my appreciation to those officials who are doing what they can to make things work like they should. Put on your reading glasses and start reading from the beginning of this thread. Now, the question. You have 20 seconds to answer and get the prize...... Do you not agree that an official who CONSISTENTLY makes bad/questionable calls, one a large group of coaches agree is performing poorly (notice I said large group...not one or two) should be disciplined, reschooled, removed, whatever for the sake of safe play, fairness, and keeping things on a level playing field? Now, before you answer, read what I asked closely. I'm not saying ALL officials, nor even those I just plain old don't like. I'm asking about those who are consistently bad. What's your answer Dickey? /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Can't argue much with your reply/post. Some good questions. Again, my concern is with those officials, coaches, and players who are CONSISTENTLY "off the game". /roflolk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflolk:" border="0" alt="roflolk.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Couldn't agree more! My concern is consistency. The problem I have is when calls are bad everywhere a particular official ends up. Like you said, everyone has a bad day/night/game, but don't you agree that consistent complaints from several coaches/teams deserves some consideration/looking into? /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Well.....here we go again. More competition. I don't like the thimble, but I do want the car. I sure hope we don't end up with an official to decide which one of us gets what. Wait, we'll invite him/her to play too and maybe we can all have a little fun. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Well........it is a "game, and a "kids" game at that, and it is not life or death, but the "kids" put a lot into playing the "game" and if they put their "best" into the "game", they deserve the "best" when it comes to enforcing the rules. You are correct in saying that it IS a "GAME", but there is a lot at stake on the outcome of these "games". A lot of "kids" get to attend college on scholarships from the "game" who would otherwise not get the chance at a college education. Granted, there are not a lot of kids who get that opportunity, but for those who count on it, and work hard for it...often 4 years of high school "game" to achieve it, it means an awful lot. For you to "WIN", it would have to go back to truly being a "GAME", so I guess we both loose. Sorry. /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Where did the age of the official come into discussion? I've seen a number of younger officials who do a much better job than some of the more "experienced" officials. Not saying the more "experienced" officials did such a bad job to begin with. YOU are correct that it is the "middle" age officials who are on the "power trips". You are correct that many don't know what they are talking about, and others do take advantage of the power. How about we do something about those "third legs" and make life easier for those officials who are doing the best they can under the circumstances? This post was started in defense and support of the officials who are doing what they are supposed to. It was also to call attention to those who are causing problems for the game and the "team" of officials. Too many have taken their "freedom of speech" to pull the discussion away in support of the very individuals who are causing the problems. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Dickie boy, it's not the parents who are being paid to perform a service on the court. Officials are paid to officiate, enforce the rules, and keep things equal for all players. When you start paying the parents to attend, then you can demand whatever you want from them. But, they are the ones paying you, and also those "third legs" who are taking the check and giving very little in return. My apologies ONCE MORE to all those officials out there doing your job the best you can under adverse circumstances (at times). Dickey is acting just like some of those parents he's ranting about and trying to make this post something entirely the opposite of what it started out to be. How about you showing a little sportsmanship and enforce the rules. Stop flirting with the ladies in the stands, showing off like you are at the Oscars, and watch the game. Dickey, that's what you are getting paid for. If you want to do it YOUR WAY, give back the check. It's evident that's what you are out there for anyway. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Well, well. I thought you were through and weren't coming back. What a suprise. You are clueless. You have not read what is/has been said on this post. You seem to be supportive of those officials who have no business being on the court. You also have not payed attention to the praise that has been offered to those officials who are doing a good job.....EVEN WITH MISTAKES NOW AND THEN. Get the chip off our shoulders and grow up. What a childish response. Now YOU are suggesting that officials are there looking for homes to wreck and wives to steal. Who's bashing the entire group now? Looser! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> How true, how true. /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> I've had my say on that one as well. My feelings aren't hidden, and haven't been. I think, if you will look at the Grainger High School program over the years, coaches have been replaced. I don't think you can name one of the high school coaches who has been in civil trouble with the law. This discussion has been on the high school level. I think you are trying to bring some of the middle school problems into the discussion. Your right, but let's not confuse the discussion. If you'd like to start a thread on another topic, please do. I'll participate, but please don't try and pin any civil disobedience on any of the high school coaches present or in the near past. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> I don't totally disagree, but I would still rather have two decent officials than to have two decent officials with one "dud". Your point is taken as well. There are a lot of analogies that could be made from this, but that would get us nowhere. Again, I applaud those officials who get out there night after night with the goal of making the game better for the kids. /hungry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hungry:" border="0" alt="hungry.gif" /> Now, can we all agree on the hospitality rooms? /hungry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hungry:" border="0" alt="hungry.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> I still would rather have one good official than to have three, with one or two who just can't call. There is too much at stake. The game is not about the officials, the fans, or the coaches. It's about the kids out there playing. There's been too much said on here defending the "third legs" who are allowed to continue causing problems just for the sake of ego. Forget the fans, the coaches, and the officials, and let's get back to the truly important people on the court.....the players. There is a lot of support on this thread for the officials who have no business being on the floor, and too little on the players.....who are the ones who suffer from the poor officials. Defend them all you want. Agree with Dicke all you want. It still is not right. I hung up the patches a long time ago because I didn't belong behind the plate nor on the floor. How about some of the rest of you being MAN enough to do the same and hang your egos up with the patches while you are at it. Any REAL MEN out there? /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Dickie, Dickie, Dickie.......nothing could be further from the truth. You evidently don't have on your reading glasses. I have ill feelings towards those officials who have no business being on the floor. Maybe I was one of those "third legs" because officiating was not my cup of tea. At least I had sense and courtesy enough to get out and not mess up the game for the other officials, players, coaches, and yes....the fans. I sure didn't bail out, and won't bail from this post. You are free to respond to any of these posts, and your comments are always welcome, but if that one was your last reply..... so long, farewell, and I for one won't miss you! Dickie worries about fingernails, and the rest of us worry about bloody noses, bruises, and cuts that were not necessary because the rules were not being enforced/followed. So long Dickie! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Yes, please go dick! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> luv2ref, how true, how true. You made some excellent points in your post a few above this one. It is those officials who don't follow the rules and allow the playing floor to become unsafe and unfair for the players. After all, the game is about the kids and not the fans or anyone else. I'm sure you have seen, in your experience of watching games to learn as we all do, officials who allow things to get out of hand by letting the game get too rough, or by letting too many things slip by to keep play going. A coach who consistently does not perform as expected is replaced, not tolerated. A player who consistently does not perform is benched, or removed from the team. What happens to officials who are consistently not up to par? How are they disciplined? Evidently nothing is done, because we see the same officials that coaches have complained about for years back on the court still doing a sorry job of what the rest do well. There is no accountability. Yes, a bad official can be blackballed, but that just moves their poor performance to somewhere else for the same things to happen again. That is the complaint. There are too many good officials taking the bad rap for the hadful who should not be wearing the uniform. As I've said before, thank you to all those officials who are doing what they are supposed to do....... keep the game safe and everyone on a level playing surface. To those I've tagged "third legs", take up knitting or something where so much is not at stake! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Dick, I've been there, done that, and got the scars to back up my words. No one is talking about judgement calls here. No one would argue that we've all made mistakes with judgements. However, when you have two players on the floor for a loose ball and one comes up with the ball, and the other comes up with the other player's head in a head lock, there is no judgement on that one. When a player steps out of bounds and the official does not make the call, that is not judgement. When a player lays so much on another player's back to the point that that player steps sideways and the "leaning player" falls down because his "prop" is gone, that isn't judgement. "Third leg officials" make judgement calls. Good officials make their calls by the rulebook as they should. No whining here, just wondering why an official would choose a judgement call over the rulebook where a walk is a walk, a foul is a foul, out of bounds is out of bounds, a push is a push, and 3 points are 3 points. Where's your judgement? Are you one of those officials who has several "blank pages" in his/her rulebook so they can make up a few judgemental calls? Therein lies the problem and thus is born the "third leg". You have just made everyone's argument justified by your judgement statement. Thank you for finally agreeing that some calls are outside the TSSAA set rules. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Dick, to a point I agree. Believe it or not, I don't go to the games to watch and critique the officials. I usually have a good time joking and kidding with them. I've got to know and enjoy talking with many of them. I also agree that the game can be a good example/lesson in life with obstacles to overcome. But, what I can't live with is the blatant, intentional, outright bad/missed calls for which there is no excuse. Now, you tell me how you can sit there and enjoy a game where one official out of the three gets off on what has been called a "power trip" in this post/thread, and not be mad/upset? Tell us all what you would do, how you would handle, an official who taunts one of your players, or you, trying to "push you" over the line so a technical foul can be called? Or, how about a game where it is obvious one team is allowed to be more physical than the other team? Evidently you "have it made in the shade", and get to go to a game where it doesn't matter whether the kids get a fair shake on the court or not. Maybe some day I'll be there, but for now, I'm held accountable for my performance, and so are/should be the officials. /roflolk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflolk:" border="0" alt="roflolk.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Ever see the movie/play Phantom of the Opera? How about Bearclaw of the Gym? Go Grizzlies! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Some important words there....... working together. That's all anyone can ask is for all three officials to work together. If everyone pays attention to their "zone" on the court, the system works well. But, the other two have a hard time when they have that " third leg" who just shouldn't be there. We saw three good officials "working together" and it made a difference for both teams. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Yes, it was, and Grainger won the game. Had Grainger lost, the "take" on the officials would be the same.

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Just got home from two good games tonight. 3 officials on the court. One experienced, and the other two fairly new at calling high school ball. All 3 did a good job. All covered where they were supposed to be and helped each other out, as one would expect. No grandstanding, some missed calls, and some bad calls, but that is understandable. Two gentlemen and a lady. Good job tonight "STRIPES". Keep up the good work!

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> You know, everyone has made some excellent comments throughout this discussion, well everyone except the accusation that I was bashing Upward Basketball for which I have the utmost of respect....not only for the coaches, but the officials and everyone else involved. Those officials who are doing their best to keep the game "what it is supposed to be" need to be commended, and there is no way to show them the appreciation they deserve. Those marginal officials the WE judge to be marginal, just need a little "encouragement" from those who evaluate their performance to just "step things up a little". They deserve some appreciation as well, and a little slack ever now and them when a bad call happens. But, these officials who truly are out there on a "power trip" need to be removed. I would never advocate any disciplinary action on ANY official on the complaints of a couple of disgruntled coaches. But when the same officials receive the same complaints over and over and over....well you get the idea, then something needs to be done. Send them back to JV or elementary ball for a while to "hone" their skills a little. Those who receive complaints year after year need to be dismissed completely. I don't want to be unfair to those officials who are doing their best to keep things within the rule book, and that was NEVER my intention when I started this thread. But, there are a couple of officials I have watched over the past few years who have no business being on the court. It's just a matter of time until they let something go and tempers flare on the floor. That's the same as taunting a player into a T-foul. Once more, to all you officials who are going above and beyond, who do not receive the respect and appreciation you deserve, thank you for making this sport better ever game. To those out there on your "power trips", it's just a matter of time. Somewhere along the way, you will "pick on" the wrong coach/player, and we will finally be rid of you. Untill then, we still have the "blackball"!