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CBHS defeats Pulaski Academy 55-19.  Match to decide pool championships coming up against Summit.

CBHS currently upon on Pulaski 19-4.

Big match as Drew Nicholson moved up and beat a good James Noel at 170 8-3.

Summit pulls out the close W 36-35. What a dual.

Final was actually 42-35... was off on track with one forfeit not adding points initially.  Nice win for Summit.

Early in the dual Summit in a tight one with Pulaski Academy 18-18.

I am looking forward to a good day of wrestling tomorrow. Great chance for Memphis fans to come see some excellent wrestling in a beautiful facility.

I'm curious how they will run the pools.  Top 3 to Championship pool?  I hope not because I believe Summit is a great match up for Arlington and Science Hill.  I'd hate to see them not make the Championship pool because they won't get past The Bros. 

 

My goodness, I think I might have just sounded like some of those guys from Chatt talking about Soddy being top 3 even though they're not going to make it.  Ok, ok.  Sorry Summit but you are not top 3 in this tournament. 

Yes top team from each pool goes to the championship pool, 2nd place in each pool goes to 4th place pool, etc.

Would have loved to have a bigger championship pool with all the "major" teams in a bracket, pool, etc. but tough to do that with 5 match rule and not having a long, tournament.

Don't count Summit out yet... I am sure CBHS likely isn't.  Agreed that they probably would be good match with Arlington and Science Hill... that was part of the challenge of developing pools.  How do you get good match-ups, avoid certain teams seeing each other that have wrestled too much this year, etc.

Should still see some decent match-ups in the initial pool rounds.

Ranked wrestlers in each pool.

 

If Hamm has mentioned the person in recent results I will list them as HM

 

Pool A

106-

2. Gehrig Salvaggio (CBHS)

HM Zach Thomas (Summit)

 

113-

4. Brady Woodward (Summit)

 

132-

3. Robert Griggs (CBHS)

6. Jordan Taylor (Cordova)

 

138-

3. Connor Rasberry (CBHS)

 

145-

1. Trevor Brown (CBHS)

 

 

170-

1. Tommy Brackett (CBHS)

4. Sawyer Knott (Summit)

 

I think you can throw any DII ranking out the window that Hamm has posted right now.  Unabashedly wrong from kids not wrestling to weightclasses just off.  I love Hamm but I don't think he has touched those since pre-season... too far off to predict any match-ups.  I wish I had time to do them but I just can't do them to the level I would want in order to post them for the state.

Ok back to the original discussion, the tournament on Saturday. Trackwrestling shows a different set of pools now. Here's the updated pool situation

 

 

Pool A

Christian Brothers

Summit

Cordova

Pulaski Academy, AR

 

Pool B

Arlington

Blackman

Pigeon Forge

Clarksville

 

Pool C

Science Hill

Bartlett

Catholic, AR

Lawrence Co

 

 

 

Any predictions now?

Should be a good day of wrestling.  I would imagine the placement pools show some pretty good matches along with the pools shown.

I noticed that the DII rankings say that they were updated on 1/16/17... however, they don't look like they were updated at all.  If they were, I would say they are wildly inaccurate.  There are a ton of weights that are off and still show some wrestlers ranked who aren't wrestling this year.

I know nobody really cares about DII anyway though!

Also a little hard to blame Hamm if he doesn't always take into results of the Fandetti... those can be a bit difficult to find since it isn't on TrackWrestling.

At 160 William (Chase) Diehl beat Adkins twice this weekend. 5-4 on Friday and 6-5 on Saturday. Hasn't lost a match to a TN kid yet and will possibly wrestle Henley tonight.

You sure about that?  Pretty sure he lost to a TN wrestler on Saturday in the finals.

If Hatcher (Pulaski Academy) is at 182 it would be fun to watch him go with Tommy Bracket.

Looks like Hatcher has primarily been wrestling 195 this season so I doubt we get a chance to see it.  I remember them wrestling a few times back at our youth tournament, Mayhem in Memphis... think Hatcher usually got the better of Brackett there but that was a long time ago.

I don't know that the pools / competition format has been finalized yet.

I believe there was an initial idea floated out but not set in stone yet.

Actually it is probably worth noting that I didn't see any of McCallie's wrestlers in the brackets at Escape the Rock nor did I see them on the team list; despite the tweets about their wrestlers pre-seeds. It appears they may not have attended after all.

I believe that it has already been stated elsewhere in the thread that McCallie is at Escape the Rock and will not be at GP West.

Looks like it is going to be a pretty full week.

Bradley has a loaded three day stretch in there.

Arlington still giving up 18 pts. which was too much against the likes of Jesuit and Brother Martin.  WC looked strong

Keep in mind that I think that was also Brother Martin's B team as their A team was over at the Prep Slam, which they won over McCallie.

Man, you liven up this thread every week. I'm glad you're on here. Obviously you're passionate about the sport and your team, and you know more than the average person your age. When they asked me to take over the poll, I wondered if it might not be time to let it go, but people like you respond to it and get us to talk about wrestling, which is good for the sport. Thank you for that.

 

You have the brains to be a young GHouse type, who always has good insights and whose opinion is always respected around here. There is merit in much of what you say. However, it seems like you'd rather be a quasi troll.

 

Either thing will work I guess. I'm good with either one (except you do your knowledge and passion a disservice by being insulting to people who are passionate and knowledgeable as well), so the choice is yours. Do you want to be respected or do you want to be snarky?

 

Either way, you spice up this thread, and raise some valid concerns. You just need to decide who you want to be on here. 

 

Whatever you decide, though, keep on posting. 

GHouse Jr.  , I am sure that works for our Brothers guru!

Only comment I am going to make...

I AM STILL YOUNG DANG IT!!! Right?  Right??? Ugh... nevermind, anyone seen my glasses?

I'm just going to get to the point and call BS on the impartiality of your poll Mr. ArtusCumber. Your team takes three losses and remains in the poll. Laughable!! And one loss to an Arlington team that your same group failed to rank. Mt. Juliet, Halls, Blackman, MBA and others are well ahead of your Legacy ranked team.

Ah I was waiting on this... I actually put together my own little mock vote last night because I don't like to sleep.  You hit on exactly the handful of teams I evaluated for the 12th spot in my not actual vote.  Let's take a look at each team:

Science Hill - Took three loses to the now #1 (48-12), #11 (36-33), and #6 (36-29) ranked teams.  The lose to #11 was extremely close (any one match reversal could swing it and there were several decisions for either team) so I think those two teams are obviously roughly equivalent.  The other two are understandable from a rankings perspective... they were "supposed" to lose and still hung within almost a one decision flop with Soddy and as mentioned before right there with Arlington.

Now let's look at the other teams you put out there.

Mt. Juliet - okay, they won the Slamfest... what else have they done that would make them relevant to the poll?  They certainly didn't see any relevant teams there.  I think they have an early season lose to Summit.

Halls - won the Eagle challege... same question as Halls... anything relevant to the polls?

Blackman - So the most notabe things I see are 1) a close lose to WIlson Central and 2) a win over MBA.  Let's talk about those two.  The lose to WIlson Central was a lose to the now #9 team who didn't appear to have their full line-up (not sure if either team did as not an expert on either)... not enough to get in in my thinking.  The win over MBA reverses the Black Horse result where they were behind them... but then again wouldn't you just consider MBA relevant because of their status as a "legacy team"?

MBA - win over Brentwood (perhaps another legacy team) and a bigger lose to Wilson Central.  In addition to the lose to Blackman they would seem to slot behind them for now.

All of that said, looks to me like Science Hill stays in.  I tend to lean towards close loses not getting you into the rankings.  A close lose may not drop you out but it likely won't get you in.  As I believe a coach was told many years ago... beat somebody.  Science Hill may have gotten in on legacy but current results are showing they belong in the mix... at least they were up there competing with the other top teams which I would tend to reward over beating the other teams.

Honestly, my thought was that if anyone should have some bulletin board material it is maybe Summit.  Aforementioned win over Mt. Juliet, undefeated in duals on the season (that I could see), and  just finished ahead of Beech at McGavock (again line-ups could come into play here as I don't think that was a full strength Beech squad).  If anything, I think I had Summit in ahead of Beech in my notes.

That group containing Arlington, Science Hill, Tennessee, Halls, Beech, Summit are all probably competing for a spot in the rankings in the last couple of slots in my head.  Beech may have the most upside from what they have shown so far.

I do the rankings.  There were not two kids from the same school ranked.  Two different kids from two different schools were ranked, but mistakenly listed as from the same school.  Thanks for the heads up.  It has been corrected.

 

 

Booger, in all due respect, you have NO IDEA how much research goes into rankings.  Its early, and if a kid is listed on a roster and should be ranked, they are.

 

As for the claim that guys on T could chunk more accurate rankings, perhaps you are right, but where are they?  How often are they updated, and does it continue all season?  

 

Maybe you should publish your own, do it each week, all season long.  Then, lets debate on how much research it takes.

Hamm!,

You know that nobody on this board has a better appreciation for what you do with the rankings than I do.

That said, not sure your statement highlighted above is true.  I know you are missing one returning finalist who had wins over at least three guys who won state titles last year.  Unless you think that particular wrestler isn't deserving of being ranked.

There are a lot of weights that you have guys listed at where they haven't competed yet.  Not sure if you are trying to project where they are now or where you think some of them will end up.

I appreciate all of the work you do!

Call me if you want to talk it over!

Hamm,

Just an FYI, you have Aaron Moore (Arlington) ranked at both 195 and 182.

I'm not lobbying for Arlington, I'm only using them as an example.  Truth be told, I'd say Arlington would prefer to go unmentioned. 

 

But to your point, doing "homework" would require a little more than looking at the scoreboard and saying Team A beat Team B.  You must consider other factors, as you also stated in your last comment.  This is not about predicting who will win matches in the 1st week of the season, its predicting where teams will finish.  To many, early season dual scores are irrelevant, other than a little pride, especially with non-district, nothing is really lost.  So, are YOU suggesting that NW and Bartlett should be included in the rankings ahead of Arlington based on a week one match?

Ah and now I think we come to the crux of the discussion.  It is always an interesting discussion when you try to distinguish between rankings and predictions.  Rankings are typically "earned" based on tangible results.  Early in the year that might need to be based on last years results.  Predictions would be based on what someone thinks will happen.  

I don't vote in the poll and therefore my opinion matters little and I don't know what instruction the coaches are given regarding rankings versus predictions.

However, I would prefer it represent a ranking rather than a prediction.  I don't think in any way, shape, or form that this should be based on predictions.  That said, yes I would say any of those teams that have currently beaten Arlington should be slotted ahead of them.  I don't know that Bartlett or Clarksville Northwest deserve to be receiving votes as a top 12 team in the state yet but MBA and Father Ryan probably should.  Were I making predictions about where teams will end, then I think a full strength Arlington team is likely better than some of the teams they have lost to... but that is why you wrestle the matches.

If you keep it as a rankings based poll then teams can move up, down, in, or out based on results throughout the season as all of the variables of high school wrestling come into play.  If you are talking about predictions then many might make a prediction and just not change it at all!

Were I making predictions about where teams will end, then I think a full strength Arlington team is likely better than some of the teams they have lost to... but that is why you wrestle the matches.

Well I didn't even have to say it again, you said it for me!  A "bunch of silly wild arsed guesses"  So why would you not want to put some coaches in the poll that have studied the situation enough to at least make Educated Guesses.  There are coaches out there to have studied the situation and could make a much better attempt.  

 

Good point on returning placers not necessarily equaling a great dual team and using this logic, Arlington should be way up on your dual rankings list.  They didn't have a lot of returning medalists, but they do have several kids that return that were several rounds deep.  So I wouldn't say a team of superstars but a lot of solid talent on that team.  

 

All this information is readily available to the public AND the coaches in your poll.  Lets help each other out here and expect a higher level of care when voting, maybe next time suggest your pollsters gather some pertinent information and THEN cast the vote.   Lets give the wrestlers the respect they deserve by trying a little harder next time. 

Keep in mind that if any of the coaches you are talking about had "done their homework" they might have noticed that Arlington (which you seem to be lobbying for) has already taken loses to Bartlett, Father Ryan, MBA, and Clarksville Northwest this season.  I would imagine that, for a poll meant to measure dual meet strength, in-season dual results should outweigh what one team did in the individual tournament last season.  Two of those teams don't even make the "others receiving votes" category... should they be in there ahead of Arlington?

Just trying to point out that early season rankings in particular can be a bit muddy, especially with descent plans, football playoffs, etc.

Its a valid question and I assume from your replies that hes some sort of big wig in TN wrestling but I still stand by my previous statement, a pollster he is not and hes certainly not up to speed on the current state of wrestling in Tennessee.  He may be a fine person and I mean no personal disrespect but if you are going to put out a poll, then you should do your homework.  

 

Just a few more bits of information to prove the lack of validity in this poll:  

 

Soddy Daisy returns one state champ and a fifth place medalist.  So that slots them 12th with a power ranking just behind Christian Bros?

 

Pigeon Forge returns four state placers and they not top 12.

Worth noting that Jeff Price is just the coordinator of the poll.  This is the same poll that has been put out for years, Jeff has recently taken over as the coordinator.  There is a state-wide panel of coaches who vote on the poll so if you aren't happy with the rankings then your issue is really with those coaches and not with Jeff.  Jeff just consolidates the results.

I do think that there were potentially some changes to the coaches who vote in the poll this year as well but I don't know that for fact.

Most years it takes a little while for results to roll in and the poll to shake itself out as there aren't many results to go on.

A couple of other notes on comments made:

 - Regarding score between Father Ryan and Arlington, I doubt that was the full varsity line-up for either team.  Arlington has already taken a couple of loses this year without what most would consider their full line-up but note that they are in the others receiving votes list.  My guess is they are being given credit based on state performance last year and early season short-handed results.

 - CBHS seems to have been mentioned several times.  Like most years, they will need to earn their ranking... thankfully, like most years, their schedule should afford them that opportunity.  I wouldn't worry about where they are ranked... I doubt that they are!

Garrett, Hardin Valley Academy is a public school in Knoxville, it is part of the Knox county school system.

Thanks for the heads up... I know a few of the "Academy"s are like that but it is hard to know which ones and I definitely am not as familiar with some of the Knoxville area schools.