luv2ref

LTR, Glad to hear from the fans in Lincoln County about a JV Tournament. You are in the same Region with the team I follow, Siegel. If I understand it right, you have a new school starting there. I could be wrong. WE wish you luck with your endeavor. So I will know, how many courts do you have there at the school for this tournament. Good luck in District 8.

Thank you for the well wishes. One day we will go to region and beat the district 7 teams and move on to sectionals. The city school system made the first step in their move to add a new high school in Lincoln Co. From what I understand they added the tenth grade to their junior high, creating the high school level. Each year they will add another grade until they are a complete high school. We have two courts at the high school. Based on the number of teams entering, we will add two other sites. Pool play would be played at each site with tournament play at LCHS.

COACHES TREAT!!!! Lincoln County High School in Fayetteville, TN will host a Junior Varsity Tournament on Saturday, October 1. The first 16 teams to respond will be accepted into the tournament. Cost is $150. Four pools; each team plays minimum of 5 matches. Top two teams in each pool advance to double elimination tournament. Plenty of places to eat within one mile of school. Lincoln County: home of the 'POOL ROOM SLAW'! Great on hamburgers and hotdogs!

LIncoln county High School Playday. August 20. 4:30. Interested teams: Oakland, Tullahoma, Columbia, Eagleville, Summertown. Contact Coach Craig Carmichael at ccarmichael@lcdoe.org or call the school at 9314336505.

The main issue that I have with officials in the midstate area is this...............

 

 

During the pregame meetings officials ALWAYS tell the coaches "if you have a question about a call just talk to us and we'll listen". That is a flat out LIE 99.9% of the time. Officials rarely speak to coaches during a game without "threatening them" with some sort of technical foul call and when coaches make an attempt to calmy speak to them they always just throw their hands up like they are saying "talk to the hand because I don't want to hear it".

 

I can give you a list of District 11-AA officials this year that I have seen do this same exact thing over and over and over and over and over........................and over and over and over again

 

During the pregame meetings officials are supposed to quote to the coaches, "If you have a question about a RULE (note the difference) , we will take care of it." Meaning: if you only have a question about a rule, we will explain the rule to you; if you see that a rule has been misapplied, we will stop the game and make adjustments accordingly. We are instructed to not talk about judgment calls if we feel that it is not necessary. Can you imagine how many conversations can be held by coaches and officials if they talk about every call that coaches question. We really don't mind coaches legitimately questioning calls; but every question is not legitimate. And in this high paced game of today, I'm sure you will agree that the game needs our attention 99.9% of the time. That is only one of the topics that the nine people in the pregame meeting talk about and that is the flat out truth.

I agree about being the best advice...but there are other good posts..I said probably the best "post" not "advice". As there was more to what T2S2A had said in his original post. You just quoted only a part of the original "post". T2S2A gave us fans on some insight why we have a lack of "quality" officials. Thanks T2S2A, that helps.

I apologize for not addressing the entire statement that T2S2A made. Good officials are like everyone else, they want to work the best games at the highest level they can, thus they move on to college. So to my constituents, other high school officials, that read this website; if you are a referee in most of your games, I ask that you make a concerted effort to make your crews better. Be constructive! I'm not saying that we all are bad; I want us to be great and it takes the work of us all to make it better. Referees; we also need to work hard to get better. I see a lot of games, but I have yet to see the call that an official makes that causes a team to loose a game. I think missed shots, missed freethrows, bad passes, bad plays, bad play calls, and turnovers contribute more to lost games than bad officiating. So, we are going to get better; but the next time you are at a game, keep stats on the play and on legitimate bad calls and see which occur more. JFYI: true play: team A up 2 pts.; team A player complains about not having a foul against his defender called fast enough; he goes to the line-misses both freethrows, his team gets possession again, exact same scenario, his team up 2, he gets fouled, complains, goes to the line and misses both throws. opportunity to go up six. he doesn't touch the ball again by coaches choice; official does what he is supposed too. they win the game and I promise you that freethrows were definitely part of his post game talk; but the calls by that official probably weren't. Happy and Safe New Year to all and good luck to all the teams.

 

Pay your $5, yell for your team, yell at the refs, but keep it clean. Think about what the implications of "You Suck" and "We got screwed" really mean. Pretty vulgar if you ask me. Just my $.02

 

Probably the best post of this thread.

Not probably, this is the best advice we have had in this thread. Thanks, T2S2A.

... However it does bring out the fact that the official is the point of contact of ejecting someone.I hope you come back after this post and explain if that is so or not. .....

 

I would guess that in 95% of the cases where a fan is ejected, the official has requested that GA step in and eject them. Again, if officials do so, it has gone beyond what is normal fan reaction to calls and plays. When fans yell, "if the refs are not going to call it protect yourself; elbow 'em in the gut, push 'em back, knock 'em down, etc...; GA should step in without officials' instructions. I know you can't be in every place at one time, but I believe it certainly can be a little better. Happy and Safe New Year to All.

A question might be asked "Who is responsible for crowd control at a game?" Is it covered in the TSSAA rules? Are these rules signed off by the schools?

1. Each school is responsible for providing a game administrator who is responsible for crowd control. But I think that it may be misunderstood as to what 'crowd control' is. It is only when a fan has gone beyond the point of no return when officials step in. Officials are few, so unfortunately we have to work at many schools more than we probably need to because of that. For that reason, officials know at most gyms who is going to be problems; why don't the GA's know this. If other fans hear it and officials can hear it, why can't the GA's hear it and step in before the officials have too. I'm not trying to advocate rabbit ears, but I am saying that GA's need to step up and do their job and not depend on the officials too. I have officiated several times in one of the greatest atmospheres in TN basketball and for the first time had to eject a fan there. Not for what they said, but for coming on the floor to say it. Needless to say, the fan had said so much in the stands that he thought we didn't hear him, so he came on the floor. Do you think others heard him before it got to this point? I believe so. What did the GA do; escorted him out after we requested it. I believe they should have addressed the problem before that point. GA's are responsibe for crowd control and for once I would like to hear that a rowdy fan was addressed before we have to address it. In our association we are repremanded for lazy and careless officiating. First by the referee of each crew and then by the supervisor, because the R fills out a report to him.

2. (Not a part of your statement) Players play with a great level of intensity and basketball is no longer the "no contact" game it used to be. I'm hoping that officials are calling contact and intense contact, especially, that is unfair. But even in the best officiated games players get injured. Volleyball, cross country, tennis, etc... all have their share of injuries and they are non-contact sports. With that said, officials don't cause players to get hurt. They definitely can control the penalty for contact, but the thoughts and intentions of players can't even be controlled by coaches, let alone officials. SSL.

you got to watch saying you suck. there are some cry baby refs that willo toss you for that. i got tossed. refs have way too much power

Officials have been instructed by their supervisors and from the state office that "you suck" is deemed very inappropriate for any high school (or any level) athletic arena. Game administrators are very much aware that if the officials hear that phrase they will be asked to address the person who says it. Officials don't leave home looking forward to ejecting fans. In the opinion of some people, officiating is getting worse; but, when you are at games, you should also realize that some fans are getting worse. But that's the nature of the beast. Merry Christmas and Have a safe new year.

Lincoln County wins over Tullahoma High tonight. Tullahoma defeated Columbia in the first game of the night, 3-1. Score by sets: T 25-15, T 25-15, C 25-21, T 25-20. Lincoln County defeated Tullahoma 3-0 in a hard fought game. Score by sets: LC 28-26, 25-16, and 28-26. Both teams really played hard. Congratulations to all the seniors on a wonderful district season. Kudos to Haley Boggs, Chelsea Johnson, Lauren Marshall, and Paige Pigg for all-district honors from LC. Others on the all- district team are Tullahoma High: Megan McNeese, Sarah Witherspoon, Chanel Trice, and Jamie Humphries, District Most Outstanding Player; Columbia: Cheyanne Kyle, Ashlie Ailshie, and Marissa Goad; Franklin County: Meredith Caruso. Coach of the Year honors go to Craig Carmichael from Lincoln County High School.

Lincoln County, in Fayetteville, won the regular season title with Tullahoma second and Columbia third. Lawrence Co. and Franklin finish out the district, respectively. Coffee Co. was re-alligned with the Cookeville area. The tournament started last night with all games being played at Lincoln Co. Lawrence Co. defeated Franklin Co. 3-0 in the first game and Lincoln Co. defeated Lawrence Co. 3-0 in the final game of the day. The tournament will conclude on Thursday with Columbia vs. Tullahoma at 5:00 and the winner playing Lincoln Co. at 6:30 for the championship. Lincoln Co. is the returning champion, defeating Columbia 3-0 at LCHS last year. Two years ago, they got by everyone in the district pretty handily, until Coffee Co., in it's first year of volleyball, came into LC and defeated them 3-1 for the championship. The district tournament will be hard fought as LC defeated Columbia twice and split with T-town, both winning at home, while Columbia and T-town split with each other. If anyone knows, please make mention as to who will host the regional tournament? Hope everyone has an injury free and pleasant state tournament run. We're having fun in D8!!!!

Lincoln County High School in Fayetteville, TN will be hosting a middle school volleyball tournament scheduled for Friday/Saturday Aug. 7/8. The tournament will be open to the first 16 teams to sign up. There is a $50.00 fee. Space is still available. Contact Coach Craig Carmichael at ccarmichael@lcdoe.org; or 931-703-2333.

Just let it be noted that I do not think that all officials do a bad job. I was at the McMinn Central girls game tonight and thought the officials at that game did an outstanding job. Did they miss a call or two, probably, but this is basketball and most of the calls are judgment calls. Overall, great job by those three men tonight. Glad to see three good officials working an important game like that.

I, too, have officiated a long time and seen lots of officiating; but, I really refuse to publicly call out another official. I talk to people who have officiated or have a lot experience with officials about officiating. I talk to coaches about the demeanor of officials NOT about the job they do. We ALL have bad games occassionally. Officiating basketball is different from officiating football. Officiating football is different from officiating baseball. Officiating baseball is different from officiating soccer; and the list goes on and on. I don't know how long its been since you officiated basketball, but the game is ever changing. The players change every year. They get better. They are faster, quicker, stronger, and smarter. What I saw two years ago is not the same that I see today. When the three pointer first came into play, I believe it was a way to get the smaller player back into the game, because we were becoming dominated by big men. But, now the big men can shoot the three as well as the smaller players, so we are sort of right back where we started. PLAYERS CHANGE; so the game you officiated in November is not the same game you officiated in February. There is absolutely no way that I talk with just anyone about a job that my fellow football official did. I don't want them talking about me, so I don't talk about them. If there is a problem with their officiating, their supervisor is there to address it. I can't believe that we think that the TSSAA is just letting all of these 'terrible officials' go unsupervised. If we do, maybe it helps explain why the behavioral problems exist in our society; all of our educators have no managerial or supervisory ablilities and are letting our students run wild. Just like in other vocations or careers, whichever you choose to call it, we do have some people who need more work in officiating; but, I don't believe we have people who intentionally go out and sabotage games. I love teaching officials and sometimes think I do that better than officiate; but, I still refuse to publicly say that any particular official was terrible. Its hard enough coming from fans; but, it really makes me wonder what my partner and the coach are talking about if I'm working with an official who talks about the call I just made; constructive or not. And by the way, if I ever found out that an official sold me or my partner out, I will turn in every game assigned with that official, even if means not getting a schedule.

I went to Springhill to watch a Johnson kid from Marshall Co. that I heard was being looked at by TN. I've seen a lot of basketball games, but this game stuck out as one of the best this year. I did notice that the officials did talk to people before the game. One I don't know who he was talking to or about, but the other I found out was talking about trying to get another recruiting system set up in South Central TN. They are not always just gossiping. By the way, they did a great job. I want to commend the teams, coaches, Springhill High School, and 99 percent of the fans. The players played hard and well. The coaches coached hard and well. The administration seemed to handle everything from moving vehicles to selling popcorn. The fans cheered for their teams in a very positive manner. It was an atmosphere that epitomized high school athletics. I thought there was only one glich in the whole night, one lady that decided to blame the refs when the realization of Marshall Co. losing hit home. Other than that, to all the people that make up Dist. 10AA; Thank You.

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Dick, I've been there, done that, and got the scars to back up my words. No one is talking about judgement calls here. No one would argue that we've all made mistakes with judgements. However, when you have two players on the floor for a loose ball and one comes up with the ball, and the other comes up with the other player's head in a head lock, there is no judgement on that one. When a player steps out of bounds and the official does not make the call, that is not judgement. When a player lays so much on another player's back to the point that that player steps sideways and the "leaning player" falls down because his "prop" is gone, that isn't judgement. "Third leg officials" make judgement calls. Good officials make their calls by the rulebook as they should. No whining here, just wondering why an official would choose a judgement call over the rulebook where a walk is a walk, a foul is a foul, out of bounds is out of bounds, a push is a push, and 3 points are 3 points. Where's your judgement? Are you one of those officials who has several "blank pages" in his/her rulebook so they can make up a few judgemental calls? Therein lies the problem and thus is born the "third leg". You have just made everyone's argument justified by your judgement statement. Thank you for finally agreeing that some calls are outside the TSSAA set rules. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

Aren't rules made to keep the game safe and to keep one player from gaining an unfair advantage over another?

SOME ARE GREAT A FEW ARE GOOD AND ALOT ARE COMPLETE IDIOTS AND WE HAVE SEEN ALL THIS YEAR....SOME NEED MEDALS,SOME NEED MONEY AND SOME NEED A GOOD OLE COUNTRY A--KICKING

I don't want to come across as to say that all officials are great officials, because they are not; but there are more genuinely good people in officiating than some people that post here think. The guys that I have encountered through the years have good reputations and do great things for people in athletics and out. Coaches give a lot of time preparing for the upcoming season. Going to watch younger players at the middle school level, watching game tape to prepare for the games, going to summer camp with the varsity and the j.v.; spending hours away from home; etc... just to name a few. Officials watch younger officials at the middle school level, good officials watch game tape to get better for the next game; go to summer camp to work and get better, spend hours away from home; etc... just to name a few. Not making a point against coaches at all, just using some of their work to make a point to fans that don't think officials try to get better. There are coaches that don't go to the gym in the summer; there are players that don't go to the gym in the summer, and there are officials that go to the gym in the summer. The team personnel that don't go the gym in the summer are usually as good as the officials that don't go to the gym in the summer. So, it works the same for all aspects of the game. We have to go to the gym and get better before the upcoming season or we will be playing catch-up when the season starts; regardless of your level of officiating. Those that don't really care have a way of weeding themselves out. Every game is not played the same, so every officiating job can't be based on the night before. More times than not, we are the only entity in this equation that is expected to be the same each night. We strive very hard to be; but sometimes it just doesn't happen. Coaches have bad nights; players have bad nights; and guess what?, officials have bad nights. Coaches that have bad YEARS are asked to move on; players that have bad nights are expected to have them at some time; officials that have bad nights should expect to be put under a microscope and every movement, word, call, look scrutinized. The majority of these men and women work hard and I don't care who you are; these players at all levels are smarter and quicker than the average fan can imagine. I love officiating and enjoy watching officials work. But, I have found that I miss good players because I go to the game and get caught up in watching officials and leave not feeling good about the actual game experience. The next time you attend a game, try to focus on the players and not the officials. Decide that you are going to give them the benefit of the doubt. By the way, we often get a kick out of people yelling at us and we even have some gyms that we go into and know certain people are going to yell and have fun with it. We enjoy those fans that like to have good clean fun. But we don't like to be threatened or made fun of. No one likes that, I don't care who you are. I don't think you could have deaf ears when someone attacks you personally. Remember we send our kids to same school that your kids attend and they don't like it when your child comes to school and talks about how bad my child's mom is at officiating.

Must have been at Grainger....

Couldn't possibly have been another crew, huh?! /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" I'm sure there were other crews that did just as well a job that night. Kudos are good, but don't make the other crews in your area think that they didn't have a good game by singling out one crew.

Thanks. Just never had seen it done.

actually team A can inbound the ball, go down and score; the error be recognized at that point and still be corrected.

At the Cannon County Smith County game the other night @ or near the end of the 4th 2 refs were between the half court line and foul line talking. One ref who had been having a bad night call the third ref who was on the opposite end of the court standing @ the foul line waiting for the time out to end so play could begin. That single ref was called all the way over to the other end of the court for a talk. The ref in the bad mood talked to other two refs with the basketball stuck to his mouth so no one could see what he was saying. They had not been doing that all night. When I seen that I knew someone was going to have a bad night. He may have been trying to get someone to go start his car to heat up after the game I don't know! When they huddle up like that both teams better watch out. The game was won by Cannon County on a last second shot against a very good Smith County! GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!

this is a procedure that all officials should follow. at the end of close games and games where both teams have been very intense; we come together to let each other know what could possibly happen in the remaining time of the game. for instance, team A is ahead by one with 15 seconds on the clock and will get the ball after a called timeout. team B wants the ball so they can score. team A will shoot ft's if team B fouls. but even if team A hits both ft's, team B will have the opportunity to score if there is enough time on the scoreboard. the officials will come together during the timeout and talk about situations like this. we had a game the other night and the team that was ahead only had 3 team fouls. with 20+ seconds on the clock, we got together and discussed what we should look for so that things don't catch us off guard. i told my partners to be aware for fouls by the team that was ahead. one of my partners said that was crazy; but when the game resumed, the team that was ahead let 7 - 8 seconds run off and fouled. now the offensive team has 12 - 13 seconds to get a shot off instead of 20+. good coaching!! good officiating!! we as officials have to know the game as well as players, coaches, and spectators. its like an onside kick when team a is behind and needs the ball; everyone knows its coming so the officials get ready for it just like the receiving team. hope this helps a little and sorry so long. also, they (officials) should have met where the ball was going to be put in play as opposed to midcourt.

i cant quit going to high school basketball games. i just have to see what happens next.

every time i think i have seen everything, i see something entirely else.

perhaps the strangest situation of all came in a game this year:

 

it started out as a routine free throw,

but when the shot was missed, the defensive player on the block rebounded and put it back in.

not so strange? we have all seen wrong basket shots.

but what set this one apart was that an offensive player fouled him in the act.

 

while the officials discussed the play, i racked my brains for the appropriate enforcement.

does the shot count, and the player shoots a free throw on the wrong basket?

does the shot count, and he gets the "and one" on his own basket?

does the shot count, and he shoots two on his own basket?

do they wave off the basket and he shoots two on his own basket?

 

the official verdict?

they waved off the basket and gave the fouled team possession under the basket (that was scored on).

the official told me afterwards there is a rule that a team can not "gain advantage" by fouling.

 

has anyone seen a stranger play than that one?

Never seen this before; but, I have to question the ruling. I believe you have to count the basket for team A (fouling team) and give the ball to team B (shooting team) at the spot of the foul. If team B is in the bonus, we would go to the other end and shoot those freethrows. Other than a player control, team control foul, and correctable errors, anytime someone throws the ball in the basket in an act of shooting, points have to be scored.

This means Lincoln and Columbia are in the Regional tournament and awaiting where the Region is going to be. I have seen many of these schools play and they certainly make a good showing. Some year this district is going to have a playday or a preseason Tournament and really get serious about this sport. The talent is there. Maybe Coachk can get some interest in an event like that.

The regional will be at LC on Tuesday, October 21. Cookeville will play Columbia at 5 and LC will play Siegel at 6:30. This should be an exciting night of volleyball in LC. The district 7 teams are strong and the district 8 teams are getting better each year. LC played in the region last year against the London Towers of Lebanon and were just really taken with the size of the girls; as they see no one of that size in their area. Girls that size are expected to specialize in basketball. The sport is growing in that area as several of the coaches have seen really good basketball players from the middle schools choose volleyball in high school. Good Luck to all the teams that are still playing. Always work hard and most of all have fun.

how did the games go tonight, and who made all district?

LINCOLN CO. DEF. COFFEE CO. 3-0; COLUMBIA DEF. TULLAHOMA 3-2; LINCOLN DEF. COLUMBIA 3-0 FOR DISTRICT CHAMPIONSHIP. ALL DISTRICT SELECTIONS: COFFEE CO. - KAYLA GIPSON AND KAITLYN THORNTON; TULLAHOMA - JAMI HUMPHRIES AND CHANEL TRICE; COLUMBIA - ASHLEE AILSHIE, MARISSA GOAD, STEFFEN PELLETIER, AND CHEYANNE KYLE (MVP); LINCOLN CO. - SARAH PHILLIPS, BRITTANY ELLIS, EMILY ARY, KATIE CAMPBELL, AND PAIGE PIGG.

Who won?

Coffee Co. defeated Lawrence Co. and Tullahoma defeated Franklin Co. The semi-finals and final will be today at Lincoln Co. in Fayetteville. Lincoln Co., the #1 seed, will play Coffee Co. at 4 p.m. and Columbia, the #2 seed, will play Tullahoma at 5:30. The finals will be at 7 p.m. between the winners of these games.

South Central TN has several male volleyball head coaches. Will Aubaugh @ Tullahoma High School, Randal Blair @ Lawrence Co., Jason Kyle @ Columbia Central, Andrew Taylor @ Coffee Co., Craig Carmichael @ Lincoln Co., Coach (first name escapes me) Fisher @ Warren Co., Steve Keeton @ Summertown, Enoch Thweatt @ Hampshire, David Jenkins @ East Hickman.

AAA standings for the districts in the state are below and we are trying to locate the top four schools in each district at this time. Please post your records for the top 4 and we will post them on the list. Thanks

 

District: 8

Coffee Co. Central High School

Columbia Central High School 1

Franklin Co. High School

Lawrence Co. High School

Lincoln Co. High School 2

Shelbyville Central High School

Tullahoma High School

 

Actually, I think Lincoln Co. has the number one spot in this district; Columbia is second with Tullahoma third and Coffee fourth. Lincoln Co. and Columbia both lost to each other 3-0 on the road. Lincoln has played Tullahoma twice and have a 6-1 record against them in games. Columbia plays Tullahoma tonight and has a 3-1 record against them in games. Lincoln County's point margin against Columbia is larger, so I think that gives them the lead right now. If LC can win out against Coffee and Franklin, they would be the regular season title holders. But, as for this district, that only last for about one hour; everybody gets a fresh start for this district during the tournament. It should be very exciting as anything can happen in high school sports. It should be a great week.