luv2ref

I agree about being the best advice...but there are other good posts..I said probably the best "post" not "advice". As there was more to what T2S2A had said in his original post. You just quoted only a part of the original "post". T2S2A gave us fans on some insight why we have a lack of "quality" officials. Thanks T2S2A, that helps. I apologize for not addressing the entire statement that T2S2A made. Good officials are like everyone else, they want to work the best games at the highest level they can, thus they move on to college. So to my constituents, other high school officials, that read this website; if you are a referee in most of your games, I ask that you make a concerted effort to make your crews better. Be constructive! I'm not saying that we all are bad; I want us to be great and it takes the work of us all to make it better. Referees; we also need to work hard to get better. I see a lot of games, but I have yet to see the call that an official makes that causes a team to loose a game. I think missed shots, missed freethrows, bad passes, bad plays, bad play calls, and turnovers contribute more to lost games than bad officiating. So, we are going to get better; but the next time you are at a game, keep stats on the play and on legitimate bad calls and see which occur more. JFYI: true play: team A up 2 pts.; team A player complains about not having a foul against his defender called fast enough; he goes to the line-misses both freethrows, his team gets possession again, exact same scenario, his team up 2, he gets fouled, complains, goes to the line and misses both throws. opportunity to go up six. he doesn't touch the ball again by coaches choice; official does what he is supposed too. they win the game and I promise you that freethrows were definitely part of his post game talk; but the calls by that official probably weren't. Happy and Safe New Year to all and good luck to all the teams.

Probably the best post of this thread. Not probably, this is the best advice we have had in this thread. Thanks, T2S2A.

1. Each school is responsible for providing a game administrator who is responsible for crowd control. But I think that it may be misunderstood as to what 'crowd control' is. It is only when a fan has gone beyond the point of no return when officials step in. Officials are few, so unfortunately we have to work at many schools more than we probably need to because of that. For that reason, officials know at most gyms who is going to be problems; why don't the GA's know this. If other fans hear it and officials can hear it, why can't the GA's hear it and step in before the officials have too. I'm not trying to advocate rabbit ears, but I am saying that GA's need to step up and do their job and not depend on the officials too. I have officiated several times in one of the greatest atmospheres in TN basketball and for the first time had to eject a fan there. Not for what they said, but for coming on the floor to say it. Needless to say, the fan had said so much in the stands that he thought we didn't hear him, so he came on the floor. Do you think others heard him before it got to this point? I believe so. What did the GA do; escorted him out after we requested it. I believe they should have addressed the problem before that point. GA's are responsibe for crowd control and for once I would like to hear that a rowdy fan was addressed before we have to address it. In our association we are repremanded for lazy and careless officiating. First by the referee of each crew and then by the supervisor, because the R fills out a report to him. 2. (Not a part of your statement) Players play with a great level of intensity and basketball is no longer the "no contact" game it used to be. I'm hoping that officials are calling contact and intense contact, especially, that is unfair. But even in the best officiated games players get injured. Volleyball, cross country, tennis, etc... all have their share of injuries and they are non-contact sports. With that said, officials don't cause players to get hurt. They definitely can control the penalty for contact, but the thoughts and intentions of players can't even be controlled by coaches, let alone officials. SSL.

Officials have been instructed by their supervisors and from the state office that "you suck" is deemed very inappropriate for any high school (or any level) athletic arena. Game administrators are very much aware that if the officials hear that phrase they will be asked to address the person who says it. Officials don't leave home looking forward to ejecting fans. In the opinion of some people, officiating is getting worse; but, when you are at games, you should also realize that some fans are getting worse. But that's the nature of the beast. Merry Christmas and Have a safe new year.

I, too, have officiated a long time and seen lots of officiating; but, I really refuse to publicly call out another official. I talk to people who have officiated or have a lot experience with officials about officiating. I talk to coaches about the demeanor of officials NOT about the job they do. We ALL have bad games occassionally. Officiating basketball is different from officiating football. Officiating football is different from officiating baseball. Officiating baseball is different from officiating soccer; and the list goes on and on. I don't know how long its been since you officiated basketball, but the game is ever changing. The players change every year. They get better. They are faster, quicker, stronger, and smarter. What I saw two years ago is not the same that I see today. When the three pointer first came into play, I believe it was a way to get the smaller player back into the game, because we were becoming dominated by big men. But, now the big men can shoot the three as well as the smaller players, so we are sort of right back where we started. PLAYERS CHANGE; so the game you officiated in November is not the same game you officiated in February. There is absolutely no way that I talk with just anyone about a job that my fellow football official did. I don't want them talking about me, so I don't talk about them. If there is a problem with their officiating, their supervisor is there to address it. I can't believe that we think that the TSSAA is just letting all of these 'terrible officials' go unsupervised. If we do, maybe it helps explain why the behavioral problems exist in our society; all of our educators have no managerial or supervisory ablilities and are letting our students run wild. Just like in other vocations or careers, whichever you choose to call it, we do have some people who need more work in officiating; but, I don't believe we have people who intentionally go out and sabotage games. I love teaching officials and sometimes think I do that better than officiate; but, I still refuse to publicly say that any particular official was terrible. Its hard enough coming from fans; but, it really makes me wonder what my partner and the coach are talking about if I'm working with an official who talks about the call I just made; constructive or not. And by the way, if I ever found out that an official sold me or my partner out, I will turn in every game assigned with that official, even if means not getting a schedule.

I went to Springhill to watch a Johnson kid from Marshall Co. that I heard was being looked at by TN. I've seen a lot of basketball games, but this game stuck out as one of the best this year. I did notice that the officials did talk to people before the game. One I don't know who he was talking to or about, but the other I found out was talking about trying to get another recruiting system set up in South Central TN. They are not always just gossiping. By the way, they did a great job. I want to commend the teams, coaches, Springhill High School, and 99 percent of the fans. The players played hard and well. The coaches coached hard and well. The administration seemed to handle everything from moving vehicles to selling popcorn. The fans cheered for their teams in a very positive manner. It was an atmosphere that epitomized high school athletics. I thought there was only one glich in the whole night, one lady that decided to blame the refs when the realization of Marshall Co. losing hit home. Other than that, to all the people that make up Dist. 10AA; Thank You.

Aren't rules made to keep the game safe and to keep one player from gaining an unfair advantage over another?

I don't want to come across as to say that all officials are great officials, because they are not; but there are more genuinely good people in officiating than some people that post here think. The guys that I have encountered through the years have good reputations and do great things for people in athletics and out. Coaches give a lot of time preparing for the upcoming season. Going to watch younger players at the middle school level, watching game tape to prepare for the games, going to summer camp with the varsity and the j.v.; spending hours away from home; etc... just to name a few. Officials watch younger officials at the middle school level, good officials watch game tape to get better for the next game; go to summer camp to work and get better, spend hours away from home; etc... just to name a few. Not making a point against coaches at all, just using some of their work to make a point to fans that don't think officials try to get better. There are coaches that don't go to the gym in the summer; there are players that don't go to the gym in the summer, and there are officials that go to the gym in the summer. The team personnel that don't go the gym in the summer are usually as good as the officials that don't go to the gym in the summer. So, it works the same for all aspects of the game. We have to go to the gym and get better before the upcoming season or we will be playing catch-up when the season starts; regardless of your level of officiating. Those that don't really care have a way of weeding themselves out. Every game is not played the same, so every officiating job can't be based on the night before. More times than not, we are the only entity in this equation that is expected to be the same each night. We strive very hard to be; but sometimes it just doesn't happen. Coaches have bad nights; players have bad nights; and guess what?, officials have bad nights. Coaches that have bad YEARS are asked to move on; players that have bad nights are expected to have them at some time; officials that have bad nights should expect to be put under a microscope and every movement, word, call, look scrutinized. The majority of these men and women work hard and I don't care who you are; these players at all levels are smarter and quicker than the average fan can imagine. I love officiating and enjoy watching officials work. But, I have found that I miss good players because I go to the game and get caught up in watching officials and leave not feeling good about the actual game experience. The next time you attend a game, try to focus on the players and not the officials. Decide that you are going to give them the benefit of the doubt. By the way, we often get a kick out of people yelling at us and we even have some gyms that we go into and know certain people are going to yell and have fun with it. We enjoy those fans that like to have good clean fun. But we don't like to be threatened or made fun of. No one likes that, I don't care who you are. I don't think you could have deaf ears when someone attacks you personally. Remember we send our kids to same school that your kids attend and they don't like it when your child comes to school and talks about how bad my child's mom is at officiating.

Couldn't possibly have been another crew, huh?! /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" I'm sure there were other crews that did just as well a job that night. Kudos are good, but don't make the other crews in your area think that they didn't have a good game by singling out one crew.

actually team A can inbound the ball, go down and score; the error be recognized at that point and still be corrected.

this is a procedure that all officials should follow. at the end of close games and games where both teams have been very intense; we come together to let each other know what could possibly happen in the remaining time of the game. for instance, team A is ahead by one with 15 seconds on the clock and will get the ball after a called timeout. team B wants the ball so they can score. team A will shoot ft's if team B fouls. but even if team A hits both ft's, team B will have the opportunity to score if there is enough time on the scoreboard. the officials will come together during the timeout and talk about situations like this. we had a game the other night and the team that was ahead only had 3 team fouls. with 20+ seconds on the clock, we got together and discussed what we should look for so that things don't catch us off guard. i told my partners to be aware for fouls by the team that was ahead. one of my partners said that was crazy; but when the game resumed, the team that was ahead let 7 - 8 seconds run off and fouled. now the offensive team has 12 - 13 seconds to get a shot off instead of 20+. good coaching!! good officiating!! we as officials have to know the game as well as players, coaches, and spectators. its like an onside kick when team a is behind and needs the ball; everyone knows its coming so the officials get ready for it just like the receiving team. hope this helps a little and sorry so long. also, they (officials) should have met where the ball was going to be put in play as opposed to midcourt.

Never seen this before; but, I have to question the ruling. I believe you have to count the basket for team A (fouling team) and give the ball to team B (shooting team) at the spot of the foul. If team B is in the bonus, we would go to the other end and shoot those freethrows. Other than a player control, team control foul, and correctable errors, anytime someone throws the ball in the basket in an act of shooting, points have to be scored.

most of the time when an official calls a technical foul, he or his partners have warned the coach before. its not very many times that we call a technical on the first occassion something happens. during the pregame meeting with the GA, coaches, and security, everyone is told that sportsmanship is to be exhibited throughout the night by the GA and the officials; so, technically all coaches receive their warnings at that time. if a coach comes onto the floor to talk to an official, he puts himself in a no-win situation as far as getting excited about a call. everyone in the gym can see his actions which always speak louder than what he is saying. a good official will walk to his team's huddle area to try to avoid any scenes (and will take a little more than he normally would take from the coach, after getting him off the floor). don't know what the coach in this situation was saying or doing, but, when he went out on the floor where everyone could see them, he again was in a no-win situation; he's going to get a stern warning or technical almost everytime. even if his complaint is legitimate, the coaching box area or timeout huddle area is the place to express it.

if the official had definite knowledge, he was correct in stopping the game and adjusting the clock accordingly. if the inbounds pass had not been touched before the whistle, the ball should have been taken back to the end line for a thrown-in with the adjusted time on the clock. in this case, the defensive team was penalized by an officials timing correction.

hey, i have officiated at lawrence co. on beach nite. everyone should get the opportunity to experience the excitement. i grade it as one of the greatest atmospheres in high school basketball each year. and this year will be just as good as two competitive lincoln co. teams come in to play. wish i could be there. have fun and stay safe.

gator and melton; first excuse the lack of correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation. lack of it in an ealier post sort of scared me off the site but i gained ACCESS through our nice host COACHT and am here. second, i appreciate you both as people of knowledge and understanding. seems like you each had a nerve hit earlier. gator, i agree with you to an extent, our actions do cause reactions amongst a lot of people in the gyms. any game on any nite is subject to get out of hand. i have been in games where we called 30+ fouls in the first half and get in the double bonus with both teams in the second. were we expecting it, were the teams expecting it; were the fans expecting it; of course not; but, things happen when games are being played. but, it is their personal responsibility to control themselves, regardless of the outcome. we as the adults have to set the example. we have to attend games realizing that everyone there has a responsibility the next morning. if fans couldn't go to work the next day because of a headache caused by a foul not called; i would dare say supervisors would suggest that we don't attend any more ball games. parents and adult fans, it's a basketball game; cheer, boo, jump, spin, clap; do it all but stay calm. let the students have the majority of the fun. and when we see them getting upset, it's time for us to step in and calm them down. i love america. i supervise, assign, and observe and see both ends. we have some officials that are not cutting the mustard and should be held accountable as all should. but, due to the numbers of officials and even more the number of quality officials, we have to do what we are forced to do; or, have no officials at some games. we, officials and fans, need to get better. but; we also need to understand that we don't see plays the same. the angles are even different for the officials who are on the floor closest to the action. so, officials need to understand when fans disagree and fans need to understand when officials see it differently. human error has always been a part of the games. we miss calls, players miss lay-ups, and coaches call wrong plays. but through it all we all have a good time and lives are changed for the better because of sports. we need to realize that some kids find sports as a refuge and all the work that coaches and teachers and parents do to try to instill in them positive attributes is sometimes torn down by our negative actions. officiating is as great to us as coaching is to coaches and is a great way to stay close to the game for any athlete who can't go to the next level. it also pays pretty good for a college student who has advanced to the high school level. they know the game and know what is important to it. with them, all we have to do is get them in position to see and make the right call. we can use young, energetic, vibrant people in officiating, plus its getting kinda hard to keep up with them up and down the floor. don't discourage young people from wanting to get involved in officiating by having negative feelings towards fans or officials. hey, i appreciate both of you guys. your positive attitudes are the reason why i don't mind reading and posting. plus i enjoy reading the 'ballerina' posts even though i don't spit, bling, or toss old men who have to stop on their way out and change oxygen tanks to finish the course! officials; just joking. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

i have reffed in tn for 24 years and this is the second time in those years that i have experienced something like this quote. the only other time cost the fan his ticket. he was ejected. i have reffed in lc and in gc and i'm sure none of the other fans appreciates these type of comments. you may not have meant any harm; but the best thing to do is to stay away from these types of comments. i'm disappointed during some pre-games when i hear coaches talk about a kid being "athletic" and find out later, when i referee the team that the kid plays on, that 90% of the time he is black. was larry bird athletic, is peyton manning athletic, is teddy brewski athletic, is tom brady athletic, is eli manning athletic (sorry, nope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> ). all athletes are athletic, i would be ashamed if i had a player on my team and he wasn't. clean it up and let's continue to have fun. congratulations to lc, you beat a good team that if playing at their potential would be better than any team in the south central tn area. proves that it takes more than ability to play the game and you, lc, have it.

thanks, gatorbill. one of the best post yet concerning game management. the head coach is the coach that we confer with; NO ONE ELSE!!!!! we are generous in talking with assistants. we are sometimes directed by some supervisors to not talk with assistants at all because the head coach is the one who makes decisions and changes things concerning us. i'm glad you made the statement about the head coach being 'the man'; because now i can post my philosophy and not be in fear of making someone think i'm a jerk. i don't talk to any assistants about plays during the game and if the scenario that was presented early happened to me i would have accessed a direct technical to the assistant coach and ejected him and the t would have gone indirectly to the head coach, for his second. may seem harsh; but, it appears that the assist. hasn't been told his role or doesn't respect the head coach enough to care. he will probably never make that mistake again. i'm not mean and i have been officiating consistently at a high level for 20 years and get pretty good marks from supervisors and peers (and believe it or not; even some fans).

by rule, the assistant coach is bench personnel and has the same restrictions as others (players, managers, trainers, etc...); stand to applaud a good play by their team and return to their seat. they should never address an official concerning calls or plays during the game. i'm sure any coach would tell you that part of the a.c.'s responsibility is not to question calls. personally, as a rule for me, if a coach is working hard and coaching, i don't pay a lot of attention as to where he is concerning the coach's box. only when he decides to continually question calls, do i use it as a way of letting him know that he needs to return to coaching. otherwise i have plenty to do as to officiating the part of the game being played on the court. too much of almost anything is bad for anyone. it doesn't particular bother me to go back to back; but i don't like going ten times in a year. i am against removing any official from an assigned game unless he actually instigated a situation that can clearly be seen as a personal offense by him. officials are assigned for a reason to the games. some for their managing experience, some to get more managing exp., some to get more officiating exp., some even for the rules; so, it causes too many problems to reassign officials just to pacify feelings. like someone mentioned, we are authority figures and the adults, we should be able to talk to one another as such. some players have bad attitudes; but the majority of the ones that exhibit those behaviors are mocking someone they have seen do the same. we should realize that coaches and officials are not adversaries. unfortunately the days of men being men are over; we can't yell and scream at each other and then go out to eat after the game and think nothing of it. i witnessed this right before it went into extinction. some of the officials are being moved up to quickly. they officiate well; but, don't have the people experience to handle tough situations when talking to coaches. we, as officials, really need to work on this with the younger officials. just because you can make calls doen't mean that you can officiate. most of our calls are obvious, 10% on the night have are pretty tough and it's those that cause most of the problems. sorry so long; didn't mean to express so much. but; like all officials, once we get started on talking officiating, it's hard to stop.

It is automatic if he says something personal that has nothing to do with the game. If he persistently talks about a play, even if we missed it; at sometime you have to move on and continue coaching. One of my pet peaves is for a coach to yell at me. I don't play for him, neither am I his child and I think there is a better way of expressing their point. As authority figures, coaches and officials should set examples by talking to one another in a professional manner. I think the coaching box was put in to constrict coaches who took advantage of the priviledge of being able to walk and coach on the sideline. Part of that priviledge being taken away is that some officials didn't have the guts to access a technical foul when they needed too. My philosophy on the coaching box is that if a coach is working hard coaching his team and not bothering us, LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!! If he starts talking about calls excessively and strays out of the box, then remind him that he has a box that he has to be in (given he has not bothered us previoiusly). Coaches should ask legitimate questions; not questions like "Did she move her pivot foot?" right after we just called a travel. I also coach at times and have had officials who have been bad; but I realize that no one has the same angle on any play. We all see it differently. That is why I try to listen when a coach has a complaint because I know that he probably saw it a little differently then I did.

Check this one out! I was assigned to a game in a south central TN school and my wife went to spend time with her sister who taught at the school. My wife, sister-in-law, and some of her fellow teachers were watching the game. My sister-in-law's friends started heckling us. After a few candid slurs; a few especially about me; the other ladies noticed that my wife sat quietly watching the game; talking only about subjects that didn't concern the game. One of them asked her which team she was there to support. I wished I could have been there when she told them that one of the refs was her husband. She said that the comments and slurs ceased and one of the ladies left at the half and didn't return that game. She later told my sister-in-law to relay the message that she was not upset or mad and was used to people heckling officials. She understands most of it is in fun. We see it as fun and really get a laugh out of it on the way home. Yes, some of us need some work; but there's not many of us who do it for the money. I have tried to quit; but there is something about the joy of it that I can't live without yet. I don't aspire to be the best or even to work the state tournament; but, I walk on the floor desiring to do the best job I can every night.

I don't quite think the refs we see each night have a say in this as far as the rule being there. We don't make the rules; we just enforce them. The outcome is the same for us regardless. Of course everyone wants to make as much money in the least amount of time it takes to do it; but our check doesn't increase or decrease either way. But, REMEMBER, there a lot of us who officiate for the LOVE of it and not for the money. I believe that every kid who wants to and can play and compete at the high school level should get the opportunity. I hope schools never consider not having athletics just because the kids are not great athletes; a lot about life can be learned through athletics. Today, the effect that coaches have on athletes is amazing. If some kids don't get positive influence from coaches they never get it at all.

Actually, "where the ball was" is what determines what happens after the whistle. Remember, the whistle doesn't cause the ball to become dead; it's already dead before the whistle sounds. By rule, you are probably correct, but, I would bet that any coach that has this happen to him would want us to recognize the injured player because it will eventually come back around to happen to his team. I love officiating questions; KEEP THEM COMING!!!!!!!!!!

As an official, I am happy to see fans interested in the rules. The game is better enjoyed by them because they know what is happening and why. Some things can be drawn out; but, everyone doesn't have the time to read as much every day as others. Sometimes it's three - four days before I'm able to sit and read all of the very interesting topics that are presented here. I'm glad that they are left here and available for us. Thank you, CoachT.