ErikG

On 11/19/2020 at 9:43 AM, FridayMainEvent said:

So, my question is, did this debate ever get settled?   What is the oldest ongoing rivalry in the State?

When I researched this sort of thing several years ago the "oldest" rivalry I found was MUS and Christian Bros which first played in 1894. They've now played a total of 60 times over the years; the series is uninterrupted since 1989.

The longest continuous/uninterrupted rivalry I know of is Harriman and Rockwood. They haven't missed a year since 1923 -- the only year missed since the two schools began playing in 1921 (when they played each other twice). Harriman and Rockwood are scheduled to square off for the 102nd time on 9/24/21 which, to my knowledge, is the most games in any series in TN history. Milan and Peabody have already played this season, their 101st meeting; they had an interruption in '99 & '00 which broke a continuous string dating back to 1930. Theirs might be the most competitive of TN rivalries with, say, 80 or more matchups, as Milan leads 51-48-2.

Interestingly, if you consider the most often played rival for a TN school, it involves an out-of-state opponent. TN High and VA High first played in 1911 and have met 110 times. They missed last year with VA not participating in fall sports due to COVID and, strangely, won't be playing each other this season or next. Prior to 2020, TN and VA last missed a fall date with one another in 1943.

WEEK 11

D-B vs Alcoa (non-region Thursday game)

Farragut @ Jefferson Co (R1-6A)

Science Hill @ Bearden (R1-6A)

 

SCENARIOS

D-B, FHS & SH all win:  (1) D-B  (2) FHS  (3) SH  (4) BHS

Only D-B wins:  (1) D-B  (2) FHS  (3) BHS  (4) SH

Only FHS wins:  (1) D-B  (2) FHS  (3) BHS  (4) SH

Only SH wins:  (1) SH  (2) D-B  (3) FHS  (4) BHS

D-B & FHS win (SH loses):  (1) D-B  (2) FHS  (3) BHS  (4) SH

D-B & SH win (FHS loses):  (1) SH  (2) D-B  (3) FHS  (4) BHS

FHS & SH win (D-B loses):  (1) SH  (2) D-B  (3) FHS  (4) BHS

All 3 lose:  (1) D-B  (2) FHS  (3) BHS  (4) SH

Looking at the open dates listed on the TSSAA site and also checking schedules on CoachT, these teams have all begun their seasons, were originally scheduled to play this week, but find themselves w/o an opponent:

Scott (has only 4 home games scheduled)

Chucky-Doak (has only 4 home games scheduled)

William Blount (has only 4 home games scheduled)

Perry Co (has only 4 home games scheduled)

TN High (has only 8 games scheduled, 4 of which are home contests)

Unicoi Co (5 home games scheduled)

Cumberland Gap (5 home games scheduled)

Coalfield (5 home games scheduled)

Notre Dame (5 home games scheduled)

Lebanon (5 home games scheduled)

Springfield (5 home games scheduled)

Crockett Co (5 home games scheduled)

Oakland (6 home games scheduled)

 

Then there are these privates, about which I know nothing in terms of their Covid status. None of them played week 1, but all of them had games scheduled for week 2 against public opponents that aren't yet playing. 

Franklin Road Acad. (7 games scheduled, 4 of which are home contests)

MBA (8 games scheduled, 4 of which are home contests)

Ensworth (8 games scheduled, 4 of which are home contests)

St. George's (8 games scheduled, 4 of which are home contests)

Harding Academy (8 games scheduled, 5 of which are home contests)

MUS (8 games scheduled, 3 of which are home contests)

 

Of course, new matchups may have been scheduled but not yet reflected on the TSSAA or CoachT sites, and/or by midweek there may be several other schools finding themselves w/o week 2 opponents.

Tues 1/22 Results in District 4-AAA (home team bold)

Heritage 58, West 23

Bearden 57, Catholic 15

Farragut 48, William Blount 34

Hardin Valley 51, Lenoir City 50

 

District 4-AAA Standings

1) Maryville (10-1)

2) Bearden (9-2)

3) Farragut (9-3)

     William Blount (9-3)

5) West (6-5)

6) Heritage (5-7)

7) Hardin Valley (2-9)

8) Lenoir City (2-10)

9) Catholic (0-12)

 

Fri 1/25 matchups in District 4-AAA

West @ Bearden

Catholic @ Hardin Valley

Heritage @ Lenoir City

William Blount @ Maryville 

 

 

Tues 1/22 final scores (home team bold)

Bearden 80, Catholic 54

West 73, Heritage 53

Farragut 57, William Blount 55

Hardin Valley 62, Lenoir City 59

 

4-AAA Standings

1) Maryville (11-0)

2) Bearden (10-1)

3) West (8-3)

4) Catholic (8-4)

5) Farragut (5-7)

     William Blount (5-7)

7) Hardin Valley (4-7)

8) Lenoir City (1-11)

9) Heritage (0-12)

 

Friday 1/25 matchups

West @ Bearden

Catholic @ Hardin Valley

Heritage @ Lenoir City

William Blount @ Maryville

 

District 4 standings after tonight:

1) Maryville 8-1

2) William Blount 8-1

3) Bearden 6-2

4) Farragut 6-3

5) West 5-4

6) Heritage 3-6

7) Lenoir City 2-7

8) Hardin Valley 1-7

9) Catholic 0-8

 

Next week's matchups

Tuesday 1/15

Lenoir City @ Farragut

Hardin Valley @ Heritage

Catholic @ Maryville

Bearden @ William Blount

 

Friday 1/18

Farragut @ Catholic

West @ Hardin Valley

Lenoir City @ Maryville

Heritage @ William Blount

 

3 hours ago, stockton4182 said:

What kind of field at Central? 

All Knox County schools now have field turf thanks to the Haslam Family. If I didn't have somewhere else to be, which I'm grateful is the case, I think I'd be at Dan Boring next Friday.

Additionally, it's a 1-sided facility at Central smack dab in the middle of a very neat Fountain City community.

1 hour ago, GOOSESDAD said:

Had to get parents out of the locker room at halftime etc...anyway Proud of this years team they were definitely over-achievers for sure.The coaches did an excellent job(did a lot more coaching behind the scenes off the field).

All I can say is WOW in regards to the locker room.

Really appreciate the Ooltewah staff sending even more info than was requested to an out-of-town broadcaster. Very helpful and telling.

Coach T visitors should enjoy an article from the Times Free Press by Davis Lundy (Gary's son for those in the Knoxville market) detailing the week-long preparation for Ooltewah leading up to its game with Cleveland this season: "A week inside the Ooltewah High School football program"

2 hours ago, BarneySox2007 said:

So it's like the TSSAA looks at Antioch and says we can't get blood out of a dry turnip.

At least the TSSAA didn't punish the basketball teams for the actions of the football teams as they did a year ago with Unaka.

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:17 PM, FHS_Admiral said:

Erik, it would be better if it wasn't during fall break.  So much school spirit goes into this rivalry, with the whole Farragut Farmers thing, so it would be better if school was in session.

Also Erik, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your broadcasts, along with your color guy, whose name I forget.  I don't like in the Knoxville area anymore, so my connection to the program is your broadcast and the streaming service.  You guys do such a great job and I really enjoy it!!!

As it turns out Region 1 teams will redraw for their region schedule over the next 2 years. So maybe that will work out better where the Farragut-Bearden game is concerned.

Thanks for the kind words and for listening. Tonight we've got a 1-hour pregame show (lots of series history stuff early in the hour) that will begin at 6 pm ahead of the 7 o'clock kickoff.

I hate that this game is during fall break. And with likely no changes to Region 1's membership for the next 2 year cycle, I suspect the region schedule for all teams will remain constant.

1 hour ago, osunut2 said:

Welp. So much for a civil discussion.

You're right, osunut. The first year for football at FHS was 1947, and it was mostly a "B" team schedule. There's an article in Clyde Floyd's Farragut Football Retrospective about kids in 1954 walking 3 miles to practice and those who couldn't attend the afternoon session during 2-a-days because they were needed to cut corn, take care of other farm chores or, in a couple of cases, worked as carpenters' helpers. Farragut remained a relatively small, country school through the middle 70s. The closest "big city" was Lenoir City. That's the background for how Farragut came to be derisively referred to as the "Farragut Farmers" by Bearden city folk. The tradition continues (though I wonder often times if either of the student bodies understand where it stems from) with farmer attire worn by the Farragut kids.

Surprisingly, Bearden didn't field a football team until 1949.

Speaking of Bearden, time to turn attention to the Battle of West Knoxville. It should be a dandy.

2 hours ago, FHS_Admiral said:

Erik,

Any word on Farragut's starting QB Wilkinson?  I'm hoping he won't miss any games.  He's definitely a better passer than our backup.

I haven't heard anything yet. Like you, I'm hoping he can go this week, but if he can't, at least there's an open date that follows. While Gavin is the more pure passer and possesses the stronger arm, I have no doubt that Jake has the full confidence of his teammates and the coaching staff -- and plenty of confidence himself. He's been getting close to half the reps in practice all season long. Farragut's fortunate; who besides Maryville has such a capable backup?

2 hours ago, blazer1set said:

Is Hardin Valley a make-it-or-break-it for DB?

Technically, no. But without a win vs. the Hawks, the Tribe would need a serious upset along the lines of last year's Jefferson Co - Science Hill game in order to qualify. 

By the way, Blazer, I don't know if you intentionally dug that 11-year-old FHS-DB thread out of the deep, dark recesses of the CoachT archives, but it was both a pleasure to revisit some memories of a very special team and sobering to reflect on some beloved individuals in and around the Farragut program at that time that are no longer with us. Time flies. 11 years ain't what it used to be.

Quite simply, we're all blessed to live in East Tennessee.

As for the playoff picture, it's hardly as clear as a headwater creek. And last year's win by Jefferson County over Science Hill (completely changing the playoff positions) serves as a reminder that there are no givens. But if I had to guess where teams might finish with 3 weeks remaining, I think it's most likely that D-B takes the no. 3 seed. If so, that would have the Tribe almost certainly traveling to either the Owls' Nest or Bradley in the opening round.

Hicks is a pretty special RB for D-B.

I'll hopefully leave this to those more adept at making changes to final scores than me.

Last night's score was incorrectly  posted on CoachT as a 42-21 Farragut victory. It was instead 42-20 (TSSAA got a correct report). 

With other sites that have been longtime sources for folks who need to know becoming more scarce, Coach T's data base since '01 is more valuable than ever.

7 hours ago, theroyz71 said:

That doesn't sound right.  Jeff County lost to Bearden, HVA, and MW.

 

I guess that would leave a HVA, Bearden, MW, and Jeff County all with 2 wins and Jeff County would have a win against the highest ranked team in the region due to their wins over SH and DB. It a long shot at best.

I believe they're basing that scenario on overall record. Jefferson County would get the nod at 6-4.

But a 4-way tie is a strange animal, and how the tie-breaker rules should be applied (given that Jeff Co would have lost to all the teams it's tied with) is less than clear with the TSSAA's wording in its regulations. ( http://tssaa.org/football-regulations/ )

It's an unlikely scenario I'm sure they'd (TSSAA) just as soon avoid.

Depending, though, on one's interpretation of the tie-breaker regulations, I think Bearden could argue it should be the 4 seed (Jeff Co eliminated from the mix having lost to the 3 others it's tied with, and with no resulting head-to-head advantage among the remaining 3, Bearden would have the best overall record at 5-5). 

3 hours ago, WaCoJaCo said:

I'm still saying this is a 50/50 game. It could go either way. All depends on their QB and receivers.

Jefferson County matched up much better with Science Hill. The Patriots are a "passing-challenged" offense.

10 hours ago, KnoxVil said:

Is this the first time an OR team has faced a running clock?

vs Farragut in '07 and Ooltewah in '08

If the TSSAA were looking to make the event/weekend as special as possible for all involved in the state championships, the games should be at Vanderbilt. Wonder when Nashville last put in a bid (?).

 

Cookeville folks are good hosts.

Heard Coach Sparks is retiting after 37 yrs at Carson-Newman

Legendary coach. A man who has lived his faith and seemed always to possess a proper perspective.

Then go to option 2 region 3. How far are you from Livingston, Dekalb and White House?

Yeah, that works as another variation. Have Stone and Cumberland move to Region 3 leaving 6 schools in Region 2. Move Portland & White House out of Region 3 over to Region 5.

The new look Region 3 would be:

Stone Memorial

Cumberland Co.

Livingston Academy

DeKalb Co.

Macon Co.

 

The resulting Region 5 would have 8 members (with no good candidates to move to Region 4):

Portland

White House

White House Heritage

Springfield

Greenbrier

Montgomery Central

Maplewood

Creekwood

 

East / West would be evenly split with that arrangement.

 

But there are losers in all of these scenarios. People understandably don't want their team to have to travel significant distances, want to maximize local rivalries, but don't want to be somewhat disadvantaged by being placed in a region with more members than most other regions around the state. There are just too many classes to be able to evenhandedly address those concerns. I almost feel sorry for the TSSAA. But, then, I'm not sure they're enough concerned by the mess to merit any sympathy -- and to boot they brought it on themselves.

Number two will not be the option because White House in White House heritage are in different regions they are literally a couple miles apart from each other and wouldn't make sense not being in the same region

It would be easy enough to move White House Heritage from Region 5 to Region 3 in the second scenario. The thinking on my part was that it helps a bit in evening out the East/ West distribution and certainly helps lessen travel in an already spread out Region 3 (removing what would otherwise be a western extremity). It's not that rare an occurrence for neighboring schools to occupy different regions/ districts. When there's a concentration of a particular class in a particular area, a dividing line has to be drawn somewhere, so in my "mockup" I used I-65.

 

Just a guess in the game of TSSAA Geography.

I can imagine 4A going 2 different ways, one with the larger regions in the west and the other with the larger regions in the east. The assigned region numbers should perhaps be different in some instances below, but the primary point here is the grouping of schools into 8 regions – no matter what region number those groups are then given. In the “option 1†list I have Haywood as a possibility in either Region 7 or 8. Also, with both lists Union Co.’s status in Region 1 is a question mark due to the school’s expressed interest in being “independent†(non-playoff team) in football.

 

**Option 1

 

1-4A (6/7?)

Elizabethton

Sullivan East

Sullivan Central

Sullivan South

Greeneville

Grainger

(Union Co.?)

 

2-4A (5)

Chatt Central

East Hamilton

East Ridge

Howard

Hixson

 

3-4 (5)

Anderson Co.

Sequoyah

Stone Memorial

Cumberland Co.

Livingston Acad.

 

4-4A (5)

DeKalb Co.

Macon Co.

Portland

White House

White House Heritage

 

5-4A (5)

Marshall Co.

Spring Hill

Tullahoma

Lawrence Co.

Nolensville

 

6-4A (5)

Maplewood

Springfield

Greenbrier

Creekwood

Montgomery Central

 

7-4A (7/8)

Hardin Co.

Chester Co.

Lexington

Jackson North Side

Jackson South Side

Liberty Tech Magnet

Crockett Co.

(Haywood)

 

8-4A (7/8)

(Haywood)

Craigmont

Memphis East

Millington

Fayette-Ware

Ripley

Dyersburg

Obion Co.

 

 

 

**Option 2

 

1-4A (7/8?)

Elizabethton

Sullivan East

Sullivan Central

Sullivan South

Greeneville

Grainger

Anderson Co.

(Union Co.?)

 

2-4A (8)

Sequoyah

Stone Memorial

Cumberland Co.

Chatt Central

East Hamilton

East Ridge

Howard

Hixson

 

3-4A (5)

Livingston Acad.

DeKalb Co.

Macon Co.

Portland

White House

 

4-4A (5)

Marshall Co.

Spring Hill

Tullahoma

Lawrence Co.

Nolensville

 

5-4A (6)

Maplewood

Springfield

Greenbrier

Creekwood

Montgomery Central

White House Heritage

 

6-4A (5)

Hardin Co.

Chester Co.

Lexington

Jackson South Side

Liberty Tech Magnet

 

7-4A (5)

Jackson North Side

Crockett Co.

Haywood

Dyersburg

Obion Co.

 

8-4A (5)

Fayette-Ware

Craigmont

Memphis East

Millington

Ripley

I'd put White in the group with Franklin County and send another from the Knoxville area into the group with Rhea.

White Co. is one of the casualties of the excessive classes in football. There's no good placement for them. TSSAA could have easily placed them with Rutherford and Sumner last time around but chose instead to mix time zones and put White Co. in Region 4. Who knows what they'll do this time, but there is that most recent precedent, plus a quick Google Maps inquiry reveals that the avg. distance/ drive time from White Co. HS to the 5 other schools (Catholic, Lenoir City, Rhea, Soddy, Walker Valley) projected above for Region 4 is 81 miles/ 1 hour 28 minutes. Again using Google Maps the schools projected above for Region 5 avg. 90 miles/ 1 hour 45 minutes from White Co. HS. Projected Region 6 schools avg. 96 miles/ 1 hour 31 minutes from White Co. HS. Also wouldn't think the TSSAA would want to break apart a pair of otherwise sensible regions (5 and 6) just to better accommodate White Co. -- especially considering no truly good fit can be achieved. But, again, who knows.

Now that we know the cutoffs I'm guessing 5A might look like this:

 

1-5A (7)

Tennessee High

Daniel Boone

David Crockett

Volunteer

Cherokee

Morristown East

Cocke Co.

 

2-5A (7)

Sevier Co.

Seymour (elected to move up)

Carter (elected to move up)

Gibbs (elected to move up)

Fulton (elected to move up)

Knox Central

South Doyle

 

3-5A (7)

Halls

West

Campbell Co.

Powell

Clinton

Oak Ridge

Karns

 

4-5A (6)

Catholic

Lenoir City

Rhea Co.

Walker Valley

Soddy-Daisy

White Co.

 

5-5A (6)

Shelbyville

Summit

Franklin Co.

Lincoln Co.

Columbia Central

Page

 

6-5A (6)

Beech

Gallatin

Hunters Lane

Glencliff

Hillsboro

Hillwood

 

7-5A (6)

Clarksville Northeast

Clarksville

Clarksville Northwest

Kenwood

West Creek

Henry Co.

 

8-5A (9)

Brighton

Dyer Co.

Ridgeway

Kingsbury

Bolton

Munford

Memphis Overton

Southwind

Kirby (elected to move up)

 

Some editing above of an earlier post made to reflect the additions of Seymour, Carter & Gibbs to 5A ( http://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/high-school/2016/10/25/carter-seymour-gibbs-play-class-5a-football/92721142/ ) and now Fulton (see Red Rebels link above) and Kirby too. Other reports of schools choosing to play up in 5A -- or leaving 5A to join 6A?

Now that we know the cutoffs I'm guessing 5A might look like this:

 

1-5A (7)

Tennessee High

Daniel Boone

David Crockett

Volunteer

Cherokee

Morristown East

Cocke Co.

 

2-5A (7)

Sevier Co.

Seymour (elected the move up)

Carter (elected to move up)

Gibbs (elected to move up)

South Doyle

Knox Central

(Halls -- maybe Region 3)

 

3-5A (7)

West

Campbell Co.

Powell

Clinton

Oak Ridge

Karns

(Catholic -- maybe Region 4)

 

4-5A (5)

Lenoir City

Rhea Co.

Walker Valley

Soddy-Daisy

White Co.

 

5-5A (6)

Shelbyville

Summit

Franklin Co.

Lincoln Co.

Columbia Central

Page

 

6-5A (6)

Beech

Gallatin

Hunters Lane

Glencliff

Hillsboro

Hillwood

 

7-5A (6)

Clarksville Northeast

Clarksville

Clarksville Northwest

Kenwood

West Creek

Henry Co.

 

8-5A (8)

Brighton

Dyer Co.

Ridgeway

Kingsbury

Bolton

Munford

Memphis Overton

Southwind

Some editing above of an earlier post made to reflect the additions of Seymour, Carter & Gibbs to 5A ( http://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/high-school/2016/10/25/carter-seymour-gibbs-play-class-5a-football/92721142/ ). Are there reports of others choosing to play "up" in 5A -- or leaving 5A to join 6A?