Hoya

Ippon, as usual, the talent's in place, the coaching is there and the tradition is strong for McCallie. McCallie will be fine this season. Your main competition will be Baylor. You're right, the 2001 team had outstanding talent but they also had some predictable tendencies. Their biggest mistake, however, was taking the Irish for granted. It was supposed to be a sure win except there were some very fine, but far less heralded, players on that Catholic team who played very hard and, frankly, got very lucky at exactly the wrong time for McCallie. Last year the teams were fairly evenly matched. This year, I'd give the edge to the Blue Tornado. We'll see. In Chattanooga, its McCallie and Baylor at the top.

The DII East teams to beat this year (and every year) are McCallie and Baylor. McCallie is loaded with returning players and an experienced and outstanding coaching staff. Even if Baylor graduated its entire starting lineup-which it didn't-Coach Weekley will have the newcomers playing like vets within days. KCHS and Notre Dame will be okay but both are very young and Webb is definitely in a rebuilding mode. Anyone who looks past McCallie and Baylor is a fool.

Good thread. Your formation has to vary depending on the number and skills of your players and the power of your opponent. A standard 4-4-2 is a great place to start but do you play your backs in a diamond (sweeper/stopper-easier to learn) or flat (complicated-probably not in high school)? If the other team is less athletic or skilled you can move one midfielder forward (4-3-3) or,if they are stronger than you, the reverse(5-3-2). Sometimes, and this isn't fun soccer for either team, if you play against a vastly superior team you need to consider cantanacio- a full out defensive scheme (roughly, 5-4-1)- to (hopefully) keep the game close counting on opportunities for a sell out attacks only once or twice each half. All out defense like that is ugly, boring and frustrating soccer to the superior team and a completely nerve wrecking experience for the weaker team but it can help equalize the legitimate scoring chances for the weaker team if done well.

Hey Chxian, how's it going? Who is taking over at CBHS? I'm not surprised it will be someone good because CBHS, unlike many (most) schools in Tennessee, is committed to our sport and its players. We've had this discussion before.

Gate, great post. I think you are correct about Kingston's potential for a good team and I am looking forward to seeing you guys play. Your Kingston teammates aren't the only posters filling this thread with "trash" and I , for one, look forward to the day when this Board is predominantly used to exchange information and legitimate opinions rather than brainless garbage only intended to incite someone else (i. e. "flaming"). Posts like yours really help. By the way, I don't know Kingston's keeper so I have no opinion on his skills other than I'll accept he's good until I have personal knowledge to the contrary. I wish him luck during the season. As for Josh, I think he's an outstanding keeper and I hope he has a great season for the Dogs. Good luck to Kingston this season.

It's Bearden until somebody beats them. The Dogs return tremendous talent despite their losses to graduation. Farragut will get plenty of chances (at least 3, most likely) to knock them off and the Admirals may be up to the task. Brentwood, Franklin, Houston and Hendersonville should be stacked too. Good luck to everyone.

Tough to know for sure since the division structure eliminates a unified title like in the old days. Nominations for the top 5 overall (remember-preseason speculation; the games will tell): Christian Brothers (best concentration of talent and good coaching in the State); Bearden (lost some, not enough to go away); MBA (great players returning, terrific coaching); Farragut (maybe the second best public in the State last year; will be very strong and will challenge the Bulldogs); Brentwood (should be stronger than last year and last year they were very good).

Not Irish but I have the answer to the question - even though it's way outdated and you probably either have the answer or don't care anymore. The U-17 Impact played up in the U-18/19 division at the Diadora Fall tournament. They were undefeated in a 5 team round-robin and tied for first on points with the U-19 North River FC from Chattanooga. Both had two wins and two ties. Impact beat the U-19 Knoxville Knights (2-0) and the U-18 Club Azules (4-0). They tied the current U-18 State Champions, Hendersonville Fever (1-1) and then tied North River FC (0-0). After tie-breakers, North River took first on a 1 goal edge in goal differentials.

Fair enough, trackman. I think everyone posting on this particular (high school) board would agree that the kids are the ultimate goal. Soccer is a game I enjoy but, like other sports, to me it is secondary to the kids who play it. I think we have at least one thing we agree on. Thanks for responding.

First, chxian, You've outdone me. Great post. That will teach me to be passionless or to take a few days off. My intent was not, however, to cut you deeply. Just don't say I'm "anti-high school" soccer, which, for whatever reason, you clearly did. Without doubt, TSSA and USYSA have their problems too [don't we all]. My personal favorite target at USYSA is its new and largely meritless proposal to start a "summer league" for "the most competitive teams". All that is, in my opinion, are the boys and girls in charge of USYSA trying to compete with Super Y - for no particularly good reason ($$$?) and certainly not in the interests of the kids. Here, I'd argue for the chance for the kids to not play soccer at all during that time, neither high school nor club. Give them a much needed rest. I know some of the larger, more urban, clubs are making an effort to involve inner-city athletes. In our area (East) this has been going on , with only limited success, for some time. Frankly, I don't know of a concerted effort underway today based at the National or State Association level (other than they claim ODP does this-oh yea, sure it does!)and, once again, I am left with a great additional reason for high school soccer to flourish-as if you hadn't already thought of this one. I personally think inner-city development is, or should be, a proper organizational role of any of the soccer organizations if soccer development rather than dollar development is truly the organization's aim. In most countries, soccer is a largely urban game. Here, it's essentially quite the opposite - nearly totally suburban. This topic deserves more discussion and a seperate thread. Now, as for trackman, What's the problem? You write as if you are a bridge troll who doesn't want anyone tromping on your (TSSAA's?) bridge. If you read my posts, you'd know I don't favor Super Y or anything of the type for most players. Yes, my sarcastic poster, I believe our school's on-faculty coach does appreciate my assistance or else I wouldn't be doing it. He is one of the finest coaches I know but he never played the game and he asked for help (as have many other on-faculty soccer coaches without a lot of soccer background). I didn't force myself on his bench and I sure don't take away from his meager budget. Yes, it does cut my time very thin and it's worth every minute of it. If I had it to do over again, teaching and coaching would be at the top of my occupational list. I didn't say I coached high school for 20 years. I've coached adults, youth (rec and competitive)and high school over that time - but that's a detail you have no interest in. You are simply looking for ammo to utter your various silly sarcasms. I quit coaching club soccer several years ago because it conflicts with TSSAA rules and because there simply wasn't time to do both. High School is just fine and I only coach high school at present. Finally, I don't want to reduce the level of the high school game. I want to improve it. Given your comments on another thread about how "TSSAA set itself up for problems when it approved the inclusion of soccer in 1986-87" I suspect you are simply someone who believes in the high school status quo, right or wrong. Do you have any other interest in this particular sport? Maybe I'm wrong but your most recent post mischaracterizes all of my comments and, in other posts, anyone else who is at all critical of TSSAA appears to be your target [for example, Play, in the thread asking about dual referee teams]. Do you even have a tie to Tennessee soccer? What are you for? [Edited by hoya75 on 12-18-02 2:10P]

Play, I think the number of available referees for high school games differs alot from section to section. We haven't had less than a three person crew at our school in three years except once when an assignment was accidentally missed. I think availability varies and we're fortunate around Knoxville to have numbers. I think you are correct that two person crews have a harder time than three (makes sense).I don't think TSSA will sanction games using two centers because, as it was explained to me a couple of years ago, a dual center statistically poses an increased risk of loss for insurance purposes. I don't know if that's true, but it's counterintuitive to me that a center and two, untrained, club assistants, are viewed as better than two certified centers. I guess the thought is that neither member of a dual is likely to take proper control of a game. Hard to know. By the way, I don't understand Trackman's problem with your questions. I haven't read your posts as containing any hidden agendas.

My dear friend in soccer, chxian, I didn't think this was a thread spewing anti-high school soccer propaganda. I have missed a couple of days of reading this thread and I was more than a bit surprised to read your comment that Play and I "share a strong anti high school bias". From your earlier comments I had assumed this wasn't a personal issue and that we were engaging in thoughtful and respectful disagreement - all in the interest of improving our sport. I had also assumed I was writing clearly enough for you to understand my points. I guess I'm incorrect. I haven't been clear at all if you think I am anti-high school soccer. I'll try again. Nothing in my posts suggest an "anti-high school bias". I have repeatedly said I favor club ball over high school for player development of top end soccer talent (i.e. likely college players). No one with any significant soccer coaching experience (I have 20 years and counting) can reasonably dispute this point, in my opinion. You may wish Tennessee high school programs were better but they are not at present, and they are not likely to get better in Tennessee until the anti-soccer bias (not "anti-club soccer", I truly believe and I truly mean "anti-soccer bias") in the overall scholastic athletic community changes. Until our sport receives reasonable budgets, experienced coaches, control of our own fields and until we get to play in soccer's natural season (in most of the rest of the soccer world-the fall), not much will change- Tennessee high school soccer will stay second-class to the great majority of other states. Most of the changes which would make soccer a better high school sport in Tennessee are resisted to protect football, again, in my opinion. If you don't think soccer is the red-headed step child of Tennessee high school sports you are simply, in my opinion, mistaken or you haven't lived here long enough. HOWEVER, I have ALSO said REPEATEDLY that high school soccer participation is VERY IMPORTANT for many other reasons, some of which Toro has illustrated very well. In over 12 years of club youth experience, not one of my club players has avoided or been encouraged to avoid playing high school in favor of year round club ball. I have always encouraged participation in high school soccer and I coach my high school team as a non-faculty un-paid coach to help my school's effort to offer a soccer team. That's a lot of free effort (at least 15-20 hours per week in season) dedicated to a high school sport I am supposedly biased against. From your experience in Florida, you know very well that accommodations can be made during a high school season to allow club players to college showcase their talent without any significant impact on the high schools' programs. It's not a weather issue, many other states allow the same and high school soccer continues to thrive. Also, remember, its TSSAA that requires boys in our state to play in the Spring rather than being over in early November like most states. If we played in the fall, this wouldn't be much of a problem for the boys since the big showcase tournaments already wait, for the most part, until high school fall seasons are over (for example, Raleigh, Capital Cup, Tampa, Disney, and all of the big springtime events including Dallas). In an earlier message, you asked how I can say TSSAA is the limiting entity. It's easy. Read the rule - TSSAA says that during the high school season no player may compete with a club team -PERIOD. TSSA and USYSA don't say if you are a registered club player you may not play high school. USYSA doesn't force the kids to choose -our scholastic entity does that. Of all points, how does this one confuse you? Moreover, it's TSSAA's protectionism that forces our state to play Spring soccer-a major source of the problem. In my opinion, if TSSAA doesn't make an effort to accomodate college skill level club players in a limited and reasonable manner during their Spring high school seasons, the best players in Tennessee may well leave the high school program in favor of so-called "opportunities" like the Super Y League. Super Y was specifically created to be an "alternative" to scholastic soccer for the top level of players. Super Y already involves many of the very best clubs playing a regional schedule during our high school season and at least one very large Tennessee club is already a member - TNFC in Nashville. I don't like the idea of high schoolers not participating in high school athletics to concentrate, single-mindedly, on "player development". In my opinion, "personal development" is a superior goal and high school soccer , like all high school sports and extra-curricular activities, is important to accomplish that goal. BUT, if our best players aren't given a little bit of flexibility - some, maybe just a few, maybe most, of our most talented players are going to make other choices. That hurts their school teams, their sport overall and, in my opinion most importantly, themselves. You see, I share your view that viable high school soccer will help establish soccer as a more popular game in America. I think unneccessary protectionism by entities like TSSAA is holding high school soccer back, not promoting the high school game. A limited dual season of 10-14 days based around easily identifiable target tournaments (WAGS for girls, DALLAS CUP for boys) would satisfy MOST, not all, but most of the top players and would reduce the attraction of Super Y to leave high school behind. Pro prospects are still likely to leave but how many of them are there really? I'm talking about the larger number of good players who want to experience all of high school life, including soccer, but who also want a shot at playing in college. In closing, I know you disagree with me. That's okay. But, I haven't wrongly labelled you in any of my posts and I'd appreciate it if you would abstain from the same in yours. [Edited by hoya75 on 12-18-02 12:02P]

Thanks for the reply Chxian. In fairness, I'd say you're correct that I lean toward club ball as the best way to develop soccer players. High school has other, extremely valid, goals one of which Toro points out very well - building strong lasting ties to schoolmates. As a high school coach I know the importance of playing any sport for your school and I do not advocate choosing club over HS. I am suggesting that players can do both for a limited period of time (i.e. 10 -14 days in the Spring for boys and Fall for girls) to accomplish the goal I have identified. I think they can reasonably have both and I don't think they should be required to choose one over the other as TSSAA now requires. I can't identify a player who lost a DI chance because they weren't at a tournament but college coaches at all levels have told me it happens. I have, however, no way to know for sure. Now, can you name for me any player without extensive club experience who has received a scholarship to play college soccer? I can't think of anyone in my area within the last 5 or so years. Whether it's good or not, club ball is the ticket to college level soccer, not high school. My HS has had 5 All-State players in the last 3 years (all of whom were recruited to play college ball) and I can count the college coaches who watched their HS games on my fingers. Impact '86, a team of HS juniors, had over 40 college coaching contacts at just one tournament this fall. I'm sure the same is true for teams in Nashville, Chattanooga and Memphis. It's just the way the system works. I don't know if its right or wrong, I'm just describing it and trying to maximize opportunities for players. With respect to good scholastic programs being competitive with good club teams - you're right, we can never know for sure, but I'd put my money on "no way". Even Bearden's recent Div I/AAA Championship teams, with all of its DI club players, never looked anywhere near as smooth or competitive as its club parts - SMSC Select '83, SMSC Arsenal '84, SMSC Select '85 or Diadora Impact '86. Bearden's coach Eric Turner does one of the best jobs coaching HS of anyone in the State, but it's simply different and considerably less competitive. More fun, maybe more important for growing up, but no where near the playing equal of club ball. Anyway, I'm not advocating legislating that kids have to choose. TSSAA already does that. USYSA and TSSA don't restrict players who play high school - TSSAA restricts the players. I'm suggesting a compromise. I'd also like to see more club coaches being brought into the high school experience, both for the good of the players and to remind the club coaches that high school ball has its own very valid and important reasons for being. Finally, I agree with your comments on Toro.

Trackman, I know overparticipation is a concern, and I certainly have seen kids pulled between scholastic soccer and club soccer by their respective coaches (big problem in middle school a few years ago). This is a huge problem for all of our kids with multiple activities-not just sports. Sometimes I feel like a logistics manager rather than a parent but the days of sandlot games are, sadly, gone. I think some, limited, accommodation needs to be made to allow top level Tennessee soccer players to hit at least one of the big showcases each season. I know the primary goal of scholastic sports isn't supposed to be the creation of elite level players. If it was, very few top soccer players would play high school soccer. These kids play to be a part of the school community and, importantly, I think they play to enjoy their sport in a less stressful environment than club competition. But the serious players are being required to pay too heavy a price to represent their school if they must forfeit any chance to attend events like the Dallas Cup or WAGS because of this limitation. Why not set aside a window of 10-14 days each HS season when club players could prepare for and attend one of these events with their club team? Surely the coaches could get along for that period of time. I think, having coached both club and high school, it's really important to note that club teams usually practice only 2 or 3 times each week for, generally, ninety minutes while high school practices are generally 5 days per week for 2-21/2 hours each at most schools in our area. Surely, the HS coaches could give up a little time for a two week period to give their kids a chance to experience the top level of competition in their sport. Finally, Toro, you are absolutely right about the risks of pinning all of your college hopes on a purely soccer scholarship, especially at a DI school. They are pretty rare. Yet, being recruited to play the college game is a very realistic goal, especially if you are willing to look at smaller schools. Dedicated soccer players can often distinguish themselves in competition for partial and even non-athletic grants because of their dedication and excellence in their sport IF they've also taken care of their grades. Last Spring, twelve of the fifteen players on the U-18 boys SMSC Arsenal '84 were recruited to play college soccer at some level from NCAA DI to DIII to NAIA. All 12 were substantial scholarship recipients in some form-obviously not all purely athletic; however, their dedication and soccer skills paved the way, in some respect, in each case. I'd bet the exact same thing occurred on the Memphis Rangers, Nashville FC, Music City Sting and the other top level D I teams. Being available for recruiting opportunities is very important in any sport. In soccer, contrary to many of the established high school sports like football and basketball, that venue is simply not on the high school field.

With 95% of college soccer scouting and recruiting occuring at either high quality club tournaments or high level league events (e.g. USYSA Region III Premier League or the Super Y League), it is a real disservice to our state's top soccer athletes to continue the TSSAA rule without modification. For example, girls in Tennessee who choose to participate on high school teams are denied the opportunity to ever play at the top college recruiting event for women in the country, the WAGS tournament, after the age of 14. Boys in Tennessee never have the chance to compete in the Dallas Cup or other highly significant Spring college showcase events. Why? Apparently because TSSAA believes it has the right and the need to limit players' activities during non-school time for no really good reason other than to protect high school programs from competition. Several States have already begun to change similar restrictions. Several states are now allowing outside play with club teams during the season. I also understand that Texas' analogous rule was recently set aside as a result of a lawsuit. If TSSAA doesn't become more flexible, the choice is likely to either be someone else's before too long or the best players will at least consider not playing high school ball in favor of club soccer's superior training, competition and recruiting opportunities. Concerns about the effect lifting the ban would have on basketball and baseball are interesting and of concern, but distinguishable. Colleges recruit regularly at the high school level in those sports because the level of coaching and high school play in those sports is already, generally, competant. Adequate facilities for those sports exist at nearly every school. In soccer, very few high school teams have sufficient numbers of quality soccer players to even compete with an average First or Second Division club soccer team. The skill levels are really different and, while there are numerous good reasons to promote participation by the kids in high school athletics, the development of improved soccer techniques and tactical training is not one of them in the great majority of Tennessee's high schools. Many (most?) high schools don't even have real soccer fields. Moreover, it's hard enough to even find a coach capable of organizing a high school soccer team, much less than one capable of training players at the level of even an average club coach (who, in turn, are banned from high school coaching of their club players by TSSAA-another short-sighted policy left over from other sports). I really hope TSSAA will give this issue a serious look and not just slough it off because that's the way football, baseball and basketball are handled. There is a real difference between these sports. What is the real harm in allowing dual participation in soccer, anyway?

TVFC Diadora Impact, U-16 boys, came very close to advancing. In their third game, Impact led CASL Elite 1-0 for nearly the whole game. With four minutes left, CASL tied it for a 1-1 draw. Had the lead held, Impact would have been the semi-finalist instead of CASL. CASL lost in the finals 1-0 to Atlanta Fire. By far, the best Tennessee result was the U-14 girls from Tn.FC who lost in the finals to the Atlanta Lightning 2-1. They were the only Tennessee team to get beyond the first round.

Not anymore. It looks like he'll start for the Bills this fall either at center or tackle.

The game is uncertain at this time from what I hear. The TACA is in charge.

Yes, he committed to a lot of travel time to play on our team and he attended every practice Impact had between the end of High School and the State tournament- as did every other player on the team except for illness, injury or school conflicts. Impact players from Johnson City actually travel greater distances than he does from north of Chattanooga to practice in West Knoxville. With respect to "starters", the coach expects everyone on the roster to be capable of and ready to start and our lineup changes significantly from game to game depending on the circumstances - opponents, field conditions, injuries, rest between games, etc. The Impact rosters 18 talented players who have committed to practice and play with the team while working hard in school to keep their grades up. Obviously, not every excellent D1 player in the state would qualify for our team or even have an interest in playing with us. There are a lot of other strong D1 U-16 teams in Tennessee (for example, PSA won most of their games easily at States with 3-0, 3-1 and 5-0 type scores) and most players would prefer the comfort of playing closer to home. Impact certainly isn't the team for everyone. Finally, even though some tremendously qualified players tried out for Impact '86 this past week- some came from considerable distances from Knoxville- no changes were made to our roster for next year.

Not Irish, but yes, he played up on the U-17 North River Y team we lost to on PK's in the U-17 Hendersonville final [we beat them 1-0 about a month later in a league game in Chattanooga]. He called us last Winter and asked to transfer and has been rostered with us since late April. We're glad to have him with us. He's very talented and competitive and he's a really nice person. He has fit in great with our team.

Dear burn03, Your post betrays three secrets about you: 1) you go to Knox Catholic and you're proud of the soccer team [that's a good thing, it's a good team having a good season]; 2) you don't know much about soccer or else you wouldn't be stating that Bearden is overrated [the Dogs have played most of the best teams in the state including CBHS, Div.II's otherwise undefeated #1 team and they won that one 4-0; Bearden is an excellent team that might be beatable but which is clearly the best team in the state and likely to repeat in AAA]; and 3) you're not on Catholic's soccer team or you wouldn't be being disrespectful to good teams in our own region [McCallie is an excellent team that fought back from behind, not once but twice, in one of the most entertaining high school games I've seen-the tie was no fluke; they and Catholic are both very good teams and both played well]. Regards, Hoya75