themessenger

Right on Bluewhirly, McCallie is the team to beat! I agree, Gordon and the Blue will finish FIRST in D2.

Im going with my man Gordon and Big Blue, Go McCallie

Lee--You are a very classy person and I appreciate your response and believe you are sincere in your posts. Most people in touch at all with wrestling in Tennessee know your dads record in wrestling speaks volumes. He has the numorous accomplishments you mentioned and obviously has proven himself an unbelievable coach and mentor. The debate on this thread by the serious posters is whether he handled this one instance correctly and there seems to be a large percentage of people who feel Spencer got a raw deal. You even mentioned you would not have handled it the same way. As Texas23 said it is fair discussion. It is well known also that your father is a humble ,christian person and trys to live his life that way. Its just that this particular decision seems out of charachter or at least out of the norm of most programs, and usually even McCallies as to how the decision as to who wrestled where is concerned. It seems to most that Spencer had earned his stripes and should not have ben the one shuffled. Im sure you and Spencers relationship will remain strong as you both have tons of characater and personality. And your father will get past this also as he has demonstrated he is a quallity person and coach. Its just that Spencer wears a scar he and his family feel is unjustified and have some legitamite concerns as to how the decision was made and to whose benefit it was made for, and why. Knowing Spencers performance and dedication to McCalllie the past 4 years it is hard for some to see why he wasnt a priority in an individual tournament. Again, your comments are appreciated, you are a great person. Good luck to you and your family.

Empro--How ridiculous--Glad to know you get to sit in on the father son discussions in the Manley household. You go there on sundays for dinner or what?Do you really have a clue as to there pre-tournament discussions.. How silly to presume there attitude or state of mind. Are you related to Sylvia Brown or what? Its not Baloney in the traditional tournament that each person goes his normal weightclass. It is highly unusual even at McCallie(until this year) that they dont.

Bently-you hit the nail right on the head.----Hespinnedref-If you had been living this nightmare for 3 months I hope you would only thrrow a chair in the corner--Mullets ---your post is just ridiculous. Spencer Manley lost because of his dad?--No ,he lost because he got outwrestled by a man 15lbs heavier who is also outstanding. He was wrestling out of his weight class. He has enough experience that his dad would not have effected it. Your love of Coach Connell is admirable and your defense of him admirable also but, to blame his dad for the situation he was put in, or for psyching him out is ridiculous. Also glad to know Baylor hoisted the trophy in pride. They deserved it. But the duals outcome proves they are not no.1 or even no.2 head to head team in division 2. Those trophys are encased at other schools.

The tape shows 3 cautions. It also show everyone leaving the mat. The 3 cautions were actually brought to light by the official after he was told there were 3 marked down by scorekeeper.

CHARLIE-The answer to your question about what you do with the other two is quite simple. The BEST at his weight class goes that weight. Determined by a wrestleoff. What the remaining to do is they either change weight classes themselves or if not certified, become 2nd string. Traditionally nearly every high school program including McCallie handles it that way. For the reasons expressed in Coach Connels post they did not handle it that way this year. It is also the traditional tournament and most schools try to win the team trophy , but not at the expense of an individual title. Coach Connell has answered that in his post as well as he explained he thought Spencer would win the indiviual title anyway. The question debated is whether or not his personal achievement should be put at risk for the team title. Most programs allow wrestleoffs to decide it as to where an individual goes in the traditional tourney. The bumping around is usually in duals only. Sure they keep a team score in the traditonal but as was proven in the duals my best 14 vs your best 14 is often a different outcome than the tournament score. Head to Head is team. traditional is my man is the best at his weight in the state. If Spencer goes his true weight he is the best in the practice room and the state. Yet he was the one that was moved. That is the debate.

Walkenvol, You have a point. The lessoned your side learned may be something you already knew about your son. He was put in very difficult circumstances not of his choosing. He proved he could handle it with dignity, class and character. Above all he put himself before his team. The most difficlult thing is he may have learned that you can give 100 per cent, do all you can do, give all you can give and still not necessarily get that in return ,for whatever the reason ,from those whom you have held in such high regard. Im sure he is deeply hurt in that regard. Please know as you can tell by the various posters on this board he is greatly admired by many. Im sure its been difficult for you and your family and wish only the best for Spencer. I look forward to keeping up with his success at Annapolis. What an honor! He will make all associated with Tennessee wrestling proud.

Well put Walkenvol and thank you for your candor. I would like to commend the Manleys on the fact that they didint allow this situatuion to come to a head during the season. But it is understandable why he now feels its time to get the truth out. It seems to me even though he was considered last and his team first, he kept this undercover and put his team before self even in the indiviual tournament. As a big Blue supporter this will always sadden me that this siuation came about. Hopefully it will not happen again and both sides will have learned a valuable lesson. I feel Spencer Manley has taught everyone a lesson in the meaning of character.

Joe7-obviously because they do give a team trophy to the winner. But to answer the question with a question ill ask you this--Why hold a duals? Because it is the true team title. No outside studs from other teams to gum up the works. Just your best 14 vs mine. You may have noticed that they dont give an outstanding wrestler or best match in the duals. Why? It is the Team championship. The traditional tournament invites the top 32 or 16 indiviual wrestlers(depending on d1 or d2) to see who is the best indiviual at that weight. And Just because you can claim the traditional team title with the entire mix of wrestlers from all teams thrown in does not mean you win head to head. It is an entirely different format. One that stresses the indiviual champions, that is unless you happened to be Spencer Manley this year.

BOTW , You know you would miss me iF I didnt. By the way I was hoping to meet you at the state this weekend. Someone who knows you was going to introduce us. Oh well, Maybe next year.

As long as we are bringing up the tired and old lets again say that 1A and 2A and 3A should all playoff in baseball, basketball, etc. because otherwise they would not truly know in their heart they are champions. give me a break. Iowa home of some of the best high school wrestling in the country,( Waaaaaay better than ours )has 3 divisions. Any of thier 3 champs could usually handle ours in tennessee. So since there third best can beat our first best we probably wont think in our hearts we could be champs. But at least their 3rd best knows he can be champ in tennessee anyway. See, doesent this get ridiculous after a while. The sad case is the 42 Iowa champions all consider themselves champions and we dont. Maybe we should take the worst one of their three on and see who would win and we know we would be at least 3rd in Iowa. I know there are exceptions, Matt Keller and Phillip Simpson come to mind. Anyway, the point is they are all champs and all deserving of that respect. AND THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO WRESTLE, at least not in the near future.

I just dont like it when people start belittling one coach or one kid from one division because they go to a school in another division. To say some one would kill this guy or that guy is impossible to tell no matter what happened last year or last week. Bundy is the perfect example of that. They are all champs. Its fun to speculate but to wish for it is crazy because it isnt going to happen. To belittle champions from one division or the other just brings out allegience to your division or school. So its just the s.o.s. But Ill probably hang in and read it anyway.

Look Guys, this d1 vs d2 is so old its got wrinkles. Both divisions crowned state champions saturday. They are all good and deserving or they wouldnt be there. Lets not take away from either by saying they arent truly state champs. There are times when certain weight classes in one or the other are deeper than the other. Who is really best from year to year would change like the weather. Lets all sometime, somewhere, get over this lunacy. You might as well ask how come you have to die. Its just that way so deal with it. Meanwhile their are 28 state champs in this state that shouldnt be watered down by this useless discussion.

Ive been following McCallie wrestling for some time and anyone familiar with this board knows I bleed Blue and have been a staunch supporter of Coach Connell. However I do think he was wrong in his handling of Spencer Manley and agree that Tim has legitamate reason to question what happened.Most in the program know he could easily have won the spot he was forced to vacate. I wish him luck and applaud him on his character in handling this situation. However I dont think it ever should have happened. It has not happend before that I know of and I too question the reason as to why now. I think it deprived a great young man of his 3rd state title. Pantheon as you say Mcallie does teach our boys many great lessons other than wrestling. The spiritual speakers etc. are a big plus. But what spiritual or life lesson did we teach here in the indiviual state championships to an indivual who has always given his all to our team? Go Spencer and Go Blue. Lets hope decisions like this doesent make future Tornados Go Elsewhere!