supersteve17
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Posts posted by supersteve17
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QUOTE(MPHSTIGERS87 @ Jun 11 2007 - 09:14 AM) 826473765[/snapback]This is just a question, but I would like to know how many kids are in private schools who are in custody of the state and are living with foster care parents? It is one thing to be living with a single parent, but its a whole different ball game when kids have neither. Even if a kid was with a wealthy foster parent, the privates have the right to say no to that kid if the reason he is in foster care is for reasons of bad behavior. I would just take a lucky guess here, but I bet it is very few are far between to see kids in state custody in a private school (unless he runs a 4.1 40) just kidding. LOL. Mainly because you dont see a lot of wealthy foster care parents.
I agree with this. I would also venture to say that if a foster kid could run a 4.1 (I understand your hyperbole) the public school for which he or she was zoned would go out of its way to get him eligible and do everything ethically permissible to provide him or her with that opportunity. (And they should!) In fact, I know of a very similar situation a few years ago that occurred in a public school. The kid in question was a STAR and made a dramatic positive impact on that school's season. A private school (D-1) with scruples would simply not have been able to have a child like that in their school, much less playing sports.
To me, this seems like a distinct advantage for the public school.
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QUOTE(BackinTN @ Jun 11 2007 - 11:08 AM) 826473816[/snapback]And lets see, its not impossible for a wealthy benefactor and support of a private to pay for the education of a child, is it? Someone who is not officially connected with the school but is directly involved and interested in its improvment...again, there are always loopholes that can and are exploited.
Of course, if they do that and the benefitting student participates in athletics on the D-1 level, that is against the rules and should be punished with forfeitures, playoff opportunities suspended, etc.
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QUOTE(MPHSTIGERS87 @ Jun 11 2007 - 11:09 AM) 826473817[/snapback]Im going by what I have been told that Maury Co is zoned. I have no proof that kids werent able to play at MP or do I have proof there ared kids from other parts of the county are playing on the team. I do know for a fact MP doesnt have kids from several different counties. I have also been told the only non zoned school in MP is the middle school because of the theatre thing.
You may be right.
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And that IS the basis for my "real world" argument. Maybe the only "lesson" RBS would learn in your analogy is that this is a big, bad world and that it is very difficult for a little fish in a big pond to survive, but that he can survive!
BTW, RBS and Riverdale would never schedule each other anyway, even if there was "open" classification.
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QUOTE(MPHSTIGERS87 @ Jun 11 2007 - 11:00 AM) 826473810[/snapback]Well I have my connections to privates and my sources are pretty good too. When they tell what they are doing it sickens my stomach that they get away with it. I know not all privates do it but I know its done. See I can play this game too. I just not choose to bring my family's private school into wether they are wrong or right.
Point well taken. I do not deny that some private schools may have done "sickening" things in an unethical manner. That sickens me also! That doesn't change the fact that MP (or pick out another Maury County School) is NOT restricted to their "zone" as you have claimed.
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It was a good analogy for the segregationist point of view. It may point out that fact that some want to be able to "win," not just compete on that elusive "level playing field."
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Yes, I am originally from Maury County (CHS graduate) and my brother actually lives in Mt. Pleasant with his family. (BTW, his daughter goes to Santa Fe.) My brother and his wife and my sister and her husband all teach in the Maury County school system. One of them actually teaches elementary in MP!
I don't live in Maury County any more, but I know a little about it. I could very well be wrong about my information, but I have pretty good sources. (You don't have kids that attend private schools but you have not been too hesitant about telling us how awful they are! LOL! Don't take that too personally, just a little dig. I like you MPHS.)
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QUOTE(MPHSTIGERS87 @ Jun 11 2007 - 09:21 AM) 826473768[/snapback]The thing that these three schools (Temple,FCS,USC) have in common, is they can draw kids from anywhere. Rural schools with zones do not have this option. If a kid going to a middle school in Columbia likes the direction MP football program is going he cannot go there because he is zoned to Columbia, however if he like the direction Zion Christian's BB program is going he can just go sign up and head in that direction in the fall with no problems.
You are wrong and you know it. A kid from ANYWHERE in Maury County can go to any public school in Maury County if he jumps through the right hoops. Just ask DeMario Williams. You may not know of it happening often, but it has happened and is happening, probably more than you know.
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So your solution is to segregate those with whom you cannot compete? I thnk a better solution would be to find a niche area of competence and maximize the advantages within that area. (In your illustration, maybe RBS could work on their kickoff return game! LOL! Boyd Buch did in 1997 against Tyner!)
BTW, I am on record as being opposed to classification, period. Not a very popular idea, I know. But that is the way I feel. It is much more "real world."
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QUOTE(BackinTN @ Jun 8 2007 - 06:38 AM) 826472841[/snapback]It would be obsurd of my to bring specific charges against a named school on a message board. That is a legal battle I have no desire to get into. Sure, anyone can say anything. But as I have said many times before on these same threads, I have no axes to grind with publics or privates. I have experience with both. I only have knowledge of what has happened in my experience. Unfortunately, that experience is a little more than some with delicate constitutions want to hear. If I had knowledge of public schools involved with wrong doings, I would share that as well. I don't.
Why do some think that debate can only happen when you hear what you want to hear? Why does anyone think debate can be constructive unless you hear and understand the full scope of the problem? Why is it that when someone who has direct experience with the problems and actually can provide some insight into what is happening, they get slammed and called a liar? BC cannot say that all privates run completely cleanly. I have never said all privates cheat, as he has claimed I have. There is a problem out there. I have knowledge of it. Deal with it.
Point well taken.
I am saying (not speaking for anyone else) that we all probably need to stop painting with so broad a brush. I am sure you have heard the story of the father who took his four sons into a darkened room and had them touch something. One claimed a snake was in the room. One felt a beautiful plant. One thought it was a tree and another believed what he touched was a rope. When the father turned on the light, the boys saw it was an elephant!
We all come from our own unique perspective and are biased by what we see, or have seen, in front of us. If we cannot or will not see the other person's side of the argument , no progress will ever be made toward a "solution." I have no doubt that some private school approached you in an unethical way about your child/children. It taints all private schools when that happens. That does not mean that all private schools do such things. I think you have also stated the same.
I don't hink I ever called you a liar. If I did, I apologize. I just challenged you to not be too sweeping in your generalizations. It is a challenge we all should heed.
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QUOTE(BackinTN @ Jun 7 2007 - 06:55 AM) 826472455[/snapback]Scholarships, financial aid, anonymous donations, generous benefactors, etc, call it whatever you want. It happens. I know, same old response; "prove it." I know what was said to me and I know what was offered. I have all the proof I need. You are rehashing the same old ground.
Grow up and move on.
Is it "grown up" to say, "It happened to me and I don't have to prove it to you or anyone?"
All BC is asking you to do is to be specific about your allegations and/or stop being so generic. The fact is that anyone can say anything on these boards and unless what they say is general public knowledge (scores, coaches being hired, schedules, etc.) or can be substantiated with specific facts it is all just innuendo.
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I start with the basic assumption that coaches and school administrators play by the rules and desire to do what is right. It seems pretty cynical to assume that there are "cheaters" on both sides. Maybe it's naive to assume that everyone wants to do right. To me, that is why proof and not mere accusations, should be offered when accusations of unethical behavior are made. One of the foundations of this country's system of justice is "innocent until proven guilty." I realize this opens up the possiblilty of abuse, but it seems to me to be a much more reasonable way to live and function. Personally, I would go crazy (some might say crazier, lol!) if I thought or assumed that everyone was "cheating."
I don't know why everyone does what they do, but that is why I always encourage people who make accusations of cheating or unethical behavior on this board to either turn them in to the TSSAA or name the scoundrel's names! Don't paint with a broad brush.
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There is nothing new under the sun. Call it "regression" or whatever you will. Some of the best ideas are old ideas. If what we have now is "not very good" (your words) then why not go back to some form of what we have had in the past?
Maybe if we go far enough back we will realize that what we had at some point was not as bad as we thought!
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QUOTE(MPHSTIGERS87 @ Jun 5 2007 - 12:53 PM) 826471640[/snapback]No apologies needed. There are is a private poster on here that has flat got me fired up to say things I never would have said, but I cant judge that one guy (not you Baldcoach) to the rest of the good people in privates. He just represents himself and not the true meaning of a private school mission. I have come to a conclusion the huge advantage privates have on publics is open zoning in huge metropilitan cities than the recruiting (cheating) we have both referred to.
But really now, don't you think it is a little more complex than that? If your assertion above were true, then it would stand to reason that all (or virtually all) of the small private schools in urban areas would be successful in all the sports and none (or virtually none) of the small private schools in non-urban settings would be successful in anything. Likewise none (or virtually none) of the small public schools in rural areas would have any success in any of the sports and all (or virtually all) of the public schools in rural areas would be unsuccessful in everything. We are both reasonable people and we can see that there are numerous exceptions to those rules on both sides of the equation.
Every school has some advantage over every other school. The schools, public or private, that have the most successful outcomes are those that are able to maximize their distinct advantages and minimize the problems associated with their disadvantages.
Maybe another thing we need to do is re-define "success." To me, success means you maximize your potential. That implies that everyone's potential is not the same. I have seen teams that have gotten to the championship level that I would not necessarily define as "successful." I have also seen teams that have fallen short of championship caliber that were very successful. As long as we crown a "champion" there are going to be teams that do not reach that level of "success."
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My proposal, which has been made several times on these boards over the last few years, is that we eliminate the football playoffs altogether, let anyone play anyone else, without regard to divisions, classifications, etc., lengthen the schedule to eleven regular season games and allow all teams with a winning record to participate in a bowl game. As has been pointed out, this would provide the TSSAA with a revenue stream and would allow local groups the opportunity to make some money for their organization or charity.
I'd pay to see a Riverdale versus McCallie match-up (or insert the teams of your choice here) in a post-season bowl game at MTSU.
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QUOTE(BackinTN @ Jun 5 2007 - 09:20 AM) 826471549[/snapback]ps. by saying that my mother would approve if I thought before I posted implied that she doesnt approve of my actions. By putting himself in my mothers place to judge me, baldcoach insulted both me and my mother. He will not speak for me or my mother. Obviously neither of you know any better, but I am not going to judge you for that, just call you out and put you in your place on it.
I cannot and will not speak for the Balccoach, but my opinion is that you painted with a little too broad of a brush when you said something like "...when the privates come knocking...and they do and they will..." or whatever you said. If a representative or representatives from a single private school came knocking on your door to "recruit" your child/children, that doesn't mean that all private schools do the same thing. (Please report the ones that did or do to the TSSAA.) As a college professor of mine was fond of saying, "That's a broad, sweeping generalization..."
That which proves too much proves little.
P.S. Please note that your mother was not referenced in my comments.
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This could possibly open a huge can of worms, but what sports do you thnk athleticism shows up most in? My opinion is that basketball and track and field is where pure athleticism shows up the most. Probably track and field more than basketball. I'm not saying those sports don't require specific skills but I am saying that speed, quickness, explosiveness, endurance and strength is far more important in those sports than in "skill-specific" sports like golf, tennis, baseball or softball.
Having said that, how many private schools have won state championships in track and field at either D-1 level (A-AA or AAA)? I don't know the answer to the question, but I think public schools have generally dominated those sports at the "state tournament" level. (Brainerd doubled up the team points in boys' track this year -- another public school, Austin-East.) One exception is Temple in basketball and I think that can be explained in one word -- Skogen.
My anecdotal observation is that the private schools do well in "skill-specific" or "strategic" oriented sports as compared to the sports that require pure athleticism. I'm not sure if this is coaching, emphasis, dedication, opportunity or what. What I do beleive is that kids are kids no matter where they are from. If given an opportunity, a kid from an inner city or rural area has the capacity to learn specific skills as well as a suburban kid who has been to coaches and trainers since he or she was six years old. If they are not given that opportunity to learn and polish those skills, they are going to have a hard time competing, no matter how "athletic" (run, jump, etc.) they may be.
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QUOTE(MPHSTIGERS87 @ May 27 2007 - 03:18 PM) 826468126[/snapback]I have 4 children ages 8 thru 19. If I were to split them up to play a little 2 on 2, the 8 and 11 year old versus the 15 and 19 year old, without any adults saying a word or even being there, I can bet the 8 and 11 year old will cry foul after about 10 to 12 games of getting their butts kicked. Yea I can say practice and work harder, but the fact is fact that there is no way on a continues basis that the disadvantaged team will ever win consistently.
If public school kids were having to play against competitors from the private schools that were seven or eight years older than them, THAT would be a disadvantage.
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QUOTE(MPHSTIGERS87 @ May 25 2007 - 08:41 AM) 826466827[/snapback]I didnt mean for that to be to sarcastic, but privates could have only become a powerhouse (not just good teams) from either one or two ways. 1) The athletes these parents produce that sends their kids to private schools is amazing, or privates went out to find athletes to make their program stronger and to help the enrollment grow so the institution could become more wealthy.
As far as the other questions go, I dont think the private school coaches could do any better than the public coaches at a public school. Funds are limited, a private school coach who transfers to a public school will have to teach more and put more time into classwork and less time into "football"
Finally there is nothing wrong with telling a kid that there is distinct advantges that privates have over publics in sports especially football. When my kid reads the paper and sees FCS vs. JCS in the baseball championship and then says"werent those the same two teams that played in the football championship" he then on his own can start to figure out whats going on. Wether it is illegal or not there is an advantage and the kids should know it. We are teaching are kids absolutly nothing wrong when there is a clear difference in publics and privates.
I may be wrong, but you seem to subscribe to the idea "folllow the money trail." Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe that every private school bases its decisions on how "the institution could become more wealthy." Most small private schools admit students and make decisions based on principles determined and regulated by a board of trustees that has more at stake than how many wins their school has in football.
Also, it has been well-documented that most small private schools struggle for funds just like most small public schools. Teacher/coaches at most small private schools teach a full course load -- usually six classes. Ask Baldcoach how many classes he teaches and how many students he has. While you are at it, ask him how many "breaks" his administration gives him with respect to his coaching responsibilities. I know intimately coaches at both public and private schools and private school teachers/coaches get no special perks with regard to the educational process. In fact, in many cases that I know about, the expecations placed on them are greater than those placed on their counterparts in the public sector.
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QUOTE(Indian @ May 21 2007 - 09:45 AM) 826463989[/snapback]The field is unequal because on the average, the private school will get much more out of its students than the public school-grades, test scores, fewer discipline problems and yes, results on the fields and courts. The private schools should since they have a selective enrollment, there's no conspiracy involved in it.
I agree with your basic premise, but I suggest it is bordering on disingenuous to talk in tems of the "average" private or public school. What about the public or magnet schools that get more out of their kids than the "average" public school? Are they also on an "unequal" footing with other public schools that underachieve?
There is no such thing as a "level" or "even" playing field. Every school/team has some "advantage" over every other school! Likewise every school has some disadvantage as compared to other schools. I believe the key to success is capitalizing on those advantages and minimizing the extent of those disadvantages.
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Congratulations to Notre Dame. They have a very good side and should represent our region well. The Bucs fought hard and gave it a good run, but ND had too much firepower. Best wishes to the Fighting Irish and thanks to the Bucs' seniors for a great and enjoyable year. Also, the BBS fan support, especially from the students, has been phenomenal all season.
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HUGE challenge for the Bucs. CSAS is outstanding and playing well. The Bucs will have to play well to compete. Don't misunderstand me, I'm a Bucs' fan and I hope they win, but I admit that CSAS is quite good.
I'm no expert by any means, just a casual fan of soccer.
Time for a change
in Public-Private Debate
Posted
What "facts" are "getting to" us? I just want to make sure that I know what I'm being so irrational and slanderous about.
Note to BC:
Remember the old West Texas saying, "You can't out-puke a buzzard."