takedown3

Recalling wrestling in the late 60s and early 70s, stalling was an art form perfected in college. Refs rightfully call it much quicker which I think is the influence of freestyle on the sport and much better conditioned athletes with apologies to Dan Gable, Rick Sanders (rest his soul), etc. who wouldn't know how to stall.

I understand the issue quite well. I just don't agree with you. Many people don't see women in all kinds of roles ( military, police, doctors, EMTs, etc ) but the reality is they fill these positions and many others traditionaly held by men. Your mind set and principles seem more in line with some of the deep thinking folks inhabiting the middle east. Get over it. I actually would prefer females only wrestle other females but until it becomes obvious to even the dumbest among us they cannot compete against the men then I guess we will have to suffer a few coed matches. Again the real solution is to offer females teams who compete against other female teams. The idea is slowly catching on. Tennessee is hardly known for trend setting type thinking but we do have a female state tournament now. Iowa will one day follow suit.

Again, your analogy to mideastern msysoginistic customs completely misses the point. I agree with you that the solution is to allow girls to wrestle each other on female teams. As a father of both daughters and sons (who wrestled in college) and as a former high school and college (pre Title IX) wrestler, putting kids, both boys and girls, in this position isn't right. The pin move that Schaack called a "Saturday night ride" just doesn't seem like something parents want to witness as their son puts it on someone else's daughter in front of a couple of thousand screaming fans.

Oh I see, only highly evolved persons such as yourself can understand principle and conviction. I wonder how well thought out your position is on the topic of defaulting to someone you don't care to wrestle? Would it be highly pricipled for an arab to refuse to wrestle a jew ? Or vice versa ? A white or black refusing to wrestle each other if their respective culture and upbringing discouraged it ? Would you be leading the cheer if a straight guy threw in the towel to a homosexual before stepping on the mat?

 

I wasn't thrilled the 2 or 3 times my kids wrestled a girl, but that horse has left the barn. Get used to seeing a couple of girls at the tournaments and duals. In our case each time said female was pinned and we focused on the next guy. If you think about it, a better statement may be made by pinning the grappling females than avoiding them. Girl vs girl competition is the ultimate answer and by proving there really are some differences in the sexes will pave the way for female only teams. Do you see many girls trying out for men's basketball teams these days ?

Your analogies are so far off target as to indicate a complete lack of undertanding of the issue but do point out one of many pathologies in our society. Your solution and others', "pin her and move on" represents an expeditious solution but indicates a complete lack of understanding of the kid's principled reaction. BTW I participated on TN's first integrated wrestling team. The black wrestlers on that team would be offended by your poor attempt at analogy.

Mommy and Daddy probably had the bigger problem. He should have pinned her and moved on to the next guy.

Either one of them could have pinned her too. It's a case of conviction and principle. Difficult for many to understand.

Makes sense to wait until after this weekend to throw out names.

Why? Are DI and DII going to wrestle each other?

Have to admire a kid who follows his principles and all the more so because he appears to have been the higher seed.

and there was the big football player from TMI who beat John Hannah (a soph) in the Mid South finals in '67 .. not sure if they wrestled during the season ...

 

b.b.b.

I believe he was a PG. So you have 19 year old wreslting the corpulent (kind of a big baby!) 16 year John Hannah.

The stories I could tell about Pez (Actually Pezavant - named after an aunt!) but the statutes will never run. I don't believe there was more than a cumulative one point differential in the three state championship matches. I was at everyone but the only points I recall were escapes. Bill was the larger heavyweight but neither was that heavy. I doubt if Pez was over 210 at his heaviest. He was about 5'9" and built like a brick dodo house. The amazing thing was to see John Hannah throw Pez around like a rag doll before John's departure to Albertville after his junior year. Major Worsham would let ND practice with Baylor prior to the regional and state tournaments since Baylor didn't participate and headed to the National Prep tournament.

This just seems appropriate for the line of thought this thread it taking......(double secret probation)

 

 

 

 

Otter: Point of parliamentary procedure!

 

Hoover: Don't screw around, they're serious this time!

 

Otter: [aside] Take it easy, I'm pre-law.

 

Boon: I thought you were pre-med.

 

Otter: What's the difference? [aloud] Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests—we did. [winks at Dean Wormer] But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg: isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but I for one am not going to stand here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

[Leads the Deltas out of the hearing, all humming the Star-Spangled Banner]

 

Greg: Order!

 

Dean Wormer: You've done it this time buster! No more Delta! I'm calling the national office! I'm going to revoke your charter! And if you wiseguys do one more thing, one more, I'm going to kick you out of college! No more fun of any kind!

This is why I like CoachT. The only place where two of life's greatest mysteries are addressed:

1) Why won't Bradley wrestle Baylor, and

2) How could Animal House not win the Oscar

Och, your sarcasm cuts deep. While I enjoy a spectacle as much as the next guy, how about considering what it means to the participants for the opportunity to demonstrate their hard earned skills in front of the huge enthusiastic crowd that would be in attendance?

You're preaching to the choir, seriously. The irony is for the far too few (thank you Title IX!) who get to go to the next level, most will never experience the kind of crowd who will come to this match or come to the Baylor/McCallie or Bradley/Cleveland matches. This is way beyond geopolitical or macro economic consideration in importance to the lives of these children. This is for the very psychological health of these young men! You would have to be a cruel and heartless human being to deny them the opportunity to demonstrate their wrestlting skills in front of tens of thousands adoring fans!! Excuse me. I'm going to have to go get some Kleenex.

My bad on the misunderstanding. The EBE only has a single poster on this board so I would submit that as the reason less comes from their camp.

 

Rarely are there ever any coaches on this forum complaining about other coaches. I'm sure whatever is communicated between these staffs is done so directly. I believe if you took a poll, there would as many wrestling fans in general not affiliated with Bay asking for this match as there are Bay fans and parents asking. Just my impression and I may be wrong.

 

I used "moral or legal" in an attempt to stay away from someone being accused of being "right or wrong" which is where this debate typically goes. While history has a way of repeating itself if we ignore it, most decisions are for future events. Things change. We don't invest based on how a stock performed 10 years ago but rather where we expect it to head in the future. The US is now allies with some countries we battled against in the past. Life would be too easy if the answers to all the questions lay in past events.

 

My interest lies in rewarding the wrestlers whenever possible for the hard work it takes to be successful.

 

Tex - I've enjoyed the debate, best of luck.

Great post! I had completely missed the geopolitical and macro economic reasons for a B and BC match. I was selfishly only considering what a great spectacle it would be.

I am selfish. I want them to wrestle because for the last roughly 15 years it would have been a very fun match to watch, anticipate, argue about ect.. I even think it is possible Bradley might have won one or two of them.

We still get to argue about it.

Thanks to Title IX, UT wrestlers are a dying breed but I'm told we have really a fine women's rowing team now. Who needed all those minor men's sports anyway?

Now mtnrasslin......I know I am from the red neck part of Tennessee and you city slickers can pull the wool over the eyes of guys like me. I am SURE you did not mean for me to infer things that are not there (even though that is the definition of the word).

 

I am unaware that D1 runs the TSSAA, but I will take your word on it without any discussion.

 

I did not say your opinion did not matter, or better, I meant that if you agreed with the policy of Bradley or not, it would not matter. I do not believe that they take an opinion poll regarding their scheduling policy.

There are no DII representatives on the TSSAA's Board of Control. I'd say you can infer that representatives of DI control, run, boss, rule, govern and reign over the TSSAA. I understand that it's a very democratic organization.

You must be a lawyer.

 

If publicized effectively it would have to be in McKenzie.

You're probably going to get banned from CoachT for life for such a dispicable insult. You're right about McKenzie but that too is a moot point.

Until the bears coach calls or TSSAA changes its pub/pri stance, this is a mute point. Baylor takes on anybody. Doesn't run from publics or privates. Both teams are very good. Not sure those would be 5 wins at all, much less easy. Tucker would have to beat Mackey at 215. Hames would have to beat Watson (never lost to a Tn wrestler in high school) at 125. Hutsen would have to beat a returning D1 State Champ at 119 in Brunner. Brad would have to beat a tough Cate at 152.

I agree 100% with you except it isn't a "mute point", it's a moot point. The real over and under is how many local and regional high school wrestling fans would come to see the match or even better a tri match with McCallie. My guess is 3,000.

How many championships did Bradley win before the split?

I believe that would be two.

I think the topic needs some help:

True No. 1 Team*

* fill in the asterisk with any qualifier you want such as "True No. 1 Team that won't wrestle teams that might beat it consistently" or "True No. 1 Team that gives financial aid"

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT--SCIENCE HILL WRESTLED SODDY EARLIER IN THE YEAR IN A CLOSE MATCH ONLY TO LOOSE 40 TO 30. BUT WITH SD HAVING TO FORFEIT AT 103 THAT WOULD HAVE MADE A 12 PT SWING IN THE FIRST DUAL WITH SCIENCE HILL WINNING 36 TO 34.. SO IT IS POSSIBLE WITH SODDY HAVING TO FORFEIT 103 THIS TIME AROUND THAT SCIENCE HILL PULLS OFF THE FIRST MAJOR UPSET OF THE STATE TOURNAMENT.

It is possible but not probable, kind of like it is possible for Vanderbilt to beat UT in football but not probable.

Not so fast takedown3.

 

In post #20 on this thread, 90 said "As he came over to shake my dad's hand (and you all know I was sitting next to dad on the bench), he had a huge smile and was shaking his head up at the crowd, smiling ear to ear. I didn't like it".

 

Bullard in his 3rd or 4th match back survives 6 minutes with the EBE's senior, Maryland bound wrestler. Who among us would not be smiling in the same situation? Hard to comprehend how you deem that as "not a classy action"?

At 18 or most any age, I would have smiled at 90 win,lose or draw.

I believe Bill Cherry, Major Spencer or Dr. Walker for that matter would have told you that you shouldn't have said anything to him. I don't recall anyone on McCallie's bench ever verbally reacting to a kid's taunts before. Not a classy action by Bullard but I think not wearing tights has made them less inhibited.

I noticed a discussion between the wrestler and McCallie bench after the 171 match but assumed they were complimenting him on how the new Baylor singlets really show off their legs much better than their tights. I'm shocked they would have anything else to discuss!

Takedown - I was thinking more along the lines of "doofi" ... just my opinion!

I heard him utter the word but never saw him write it. Turns out we're both incorrect: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Dufus It's doofuses. Not of Latin origin but Scot. I also heard him use the word as a verb as in: "Quit doofusing around you doofi(sic)." However it's spelled, he's a heck of coach. Van Deusen

I think Science Hill drops in around 8th. I know everyone in the middle of the state thinks wrestling stops at the Knoxville line................but Science Hill is the cream of the crop (as a whole team) in East TN past Chattanooga. They finished 3rd last year and this year's team looks equally as strong. (They would have finished second but Cleveland got the seeding SH should have had). The state duals should be interesting this year.

You'd have to use a logrithimic scale to rank SH 8th. The drop off between 7th and 8th is precipitous.

However in that debate, Cleveland defeated CBHS and SD defeated Cleveland.

Got me! I have a novel idea: Bradley, SD, CBHS, Baylor, McCallie, Father Ryan, etc. wrestle each other in the state duals! So simple, I can't believe no one has thought of that.

And Decosimo has the Cauliflower ears to prove it.