RedUp
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Posts posted by RedUp
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My guess-2 regions West and East
West 2 districts
JCS, USJ, Rossville, Fayette, FACS, St George
SBEC, Bp Byrne, Harding, ECS, T-R
East 2 districts
Webb, DA, MJCS, Lancaster, Zion
DCA, FRA, Riverside, SAS, Ezell
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The disparity between Riverside Christian @ 76 students and ECS at 502 is going to make it interesting to see how TSSAA creates regions in DIIA.
Is it not a safety issue when the very small DIIA schools have to play a Webb or ECS?
11 football schools from Jackson West: ECS, St George, Harding, SBEC, Bp Byrne, Tipton Rosemark, FACS, USJ, JCS, Fayette, Rossville Christian
10 schools from Nashville East: Riverside Christian, Zion Christian, Lancaster Christian, Mt. Juliet Christian, St. Andrews-Sewanee, FRA, DCA, Davidson, Webb, Ezell-Harding
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All the predicting and guessing is over. The 2009-2013 classification breakdowns for D-I and D-II are now posted on the TSSAA website. Schools had until noon today (CST) to make the D-I/D-II election. The TSSAA has already posted those results and the three classification breakdowns for D-i and the two classifications for D-II.
Read'em and weep or shout, as the case may be.
DIIA football is going to be ugly.
There is far too much disparity between ECS at 510 and Riverside at 76 or Zion at 103.
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QUOTE (Old Timer @ Sep 25 2008 - 02:47 PM)
RedUp, I too am a parent paying full tuition, so I have a question for you on your last statement above.....How would your child feel knowing the school (parents) paid the way for someone to come in and take a spot he/she had worked hard for?
Bump....RedUp, I haven't seen an answer on this yet.
I do not pay tuition to the school my child attends in order for my child to have a spot on the team. I pay for a total education, preparation for a life where competition is a necessity for survival. It is an educational experience when someone beats you out of a postion on the team, whether that someone received aid or not.
Like I said, we disagree. Sounds like you believe tuition paid is a guaranteed start.
My bottom line......DI schools that flirt with the financial aid rules lack integrity. Not pointing fingers or naming names. Those schools know who they are.
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"Let me ask you a question on fairness. Is it fair for the parents of a student to be paying full tuition and then see a percentage of that tuition payment be redirected to a fund to offer aid to another student who may end up stealing his place on the team?"
Straight up answer on fairness----but you and I obviously see things differently:
If I were a parent paying full tuition, (and I am) and part of my tuition payment went to help a student attend the school that he/she could not otherwise attend, and the presence of that student amongst the student body made that student body more diverse and helped prepare my child for a world full of diversity, I would (and do) consider that a good investment. I could care less if that child "steals" (strange choice of words) my child's spot on the roster.
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That is called "work study" and happens at nearly all D1 privates. They do work around the campus at minimum wage rate to pay towards their tuition.
Here are a few lines from the TSSAA bylaws:
Tuition and Financial Aid
1.
Q. Is it permissible for a school to employ a student for summer work who has not attended the school the previous year?
A. No. In order for a student, who will be participating in athletics, to be employed by a school during the summer the student must have attended the school the previous school year.
2.
Q. Can a school employ student-athletes to ???work off??? tuition?
A. No. Article II, Section 16 sets forth the only means for reduction of tuition. A school may employ student-athletes as long as the remuneration or consideration for work is not in excess of the amount regularly paid for such service.
3.
Q. Must all financial aid to student-athletes be need-based?
A. Yes
Legal work study disappeared long ago. However, I have a hunch illegal work study still exists in some form or fashion in many DI independent schools. Bigchief seems to think so.
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Yes they do, and they go by the rules set by TSSAA in regards to financial aid to student athletes.
So, how do you feel about students being denied the right to play sports because they are on need based financial aid, while all the other students around them are able to play? Tell me you think that is fair.
Please, would a representative or a supporter of an independent school that does this (gives aid and keeps those students out of sports in order to stay in DI) present a justifiable, defensible reason for such a policy?
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I probably did not make it clear. Salama now have their own institute so athletic participation is not an issue as the students do not attend our school. Salama has been around a while and as far as I am aware Christ Presbyterian Church (and other churches in Nashville) have helped Salama establish themselves to the point where they are now.
I am a teacher in the high school so I was not involved in any of the decision making process to stay in D1. The easiest route for sure would have been to move to DII Small Division. We are now going to be with Stratford, Lipscomb, Pearl Cohn etc all of which are considerably larger than we are so we are not going to be dominating anybody. Athletics was not the major driver in the decision, we are a part of the Greater Nashville Community and as such want to preserve that in all areas, including athletics.
As for need based financial aid, I am honestly not aware of any students who fall in that category at the current time.
Ok- thanks. I appreciate your answer. If CPA does not give need based financial aid, it is not denying any student the opportunity to fully participate. Then take the multiplier and stay in DI is that meets your needs.
I do have a real beef with any independent school that does give aid, but then denies those aid receiving students the opportunity that all other students have. It's not fair. It is discriminatory. It's done in the name of getting wins, which is more than likely directly opposed to the heart of that schools mission statement.
I look for honesty and integrity from independent schools and educational, competitive opportunities for students in the midst of this mess......not wins.
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As far as I am aware, there is little to no financial aid offered. I know in the past we have offered assistance to "Salama" which was for inner city students. The thrust of Salama was more for academics, leadership and the arts, so CPA was a good fit as our Fine Arts program is really excellent. Salama now have their own institute which is partly supported by Christ Presbyterian Church.
We are a relatively new school and don't have a lot of endowments to even offer aid. We hope to keep tuition at a level that does not push it out of range for regular families. Of course if financial aid was offered, the student would be ineligible to play competitive sports.
So, in response to your earlier post that CPA has reviewed its mission statement and has decided to stay in DI, along with the admission that there is at least some aid offered to Salama students......seems to me that CPA has endorsed a mission statement that denies a segment of students at CPA (Salma students?) from participating in athletics. Am I wrong here?
I just don't get a school, CPA or any independent school, having a mission statement that endorses the positive educational benefits of athletics along with an administration that touts athletics, denying particular students (students who receive needed based financial aid) the fun and educational opportunity of participating in athletics, just because of the competitive landscape.
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After a lot of review of our mission statement and school purpose, CPA has decided to stay in D1.
So, please clarify. Does CPA offer any need based financial aid?
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I don't think enrollment has much impact with aid schools.
The impact comes when DI schools see where they fall in the 1/3 break down, then have to make a choice of DI or DII.
DII schools are not included in this dividing of membership by thirds for classification purposes.
As usual, DII sits over on its own and waits to see whats gonna happen next, since it has no self-governance.
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I can see the smaller D2 schools of today feeling slighted yet wouldn't 300+/- figure difference be better than what some of actually have now?
Sure it would---but its not DII's choice. Its TSSAA making that decision and they have the line drawn much higher than 300.
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Take all current DI schools, divide by 3 based on current enrollment not multiplied and create a potential A, AA, AAA. Release these figures sometime in the late summer or early fall. Then DI private schools look it over and decide where they want to be. Those DI privates that fall in A will be guaranteed that, if they moved to DII, they would play DIIA in all sports.
Bottom line, TSSAA now draws the line betwen A and AA for DII instead of the DII committee. Another case of taking away any semblance of self governance that DII has.
In my opinion, this will become very problematic for football, because there will be a significant jump to DIIA. DIIA will then include schools with enrollments from 150 up to around 450, +/-, and football will be tough for those 150 enrollment schools, the very schools that DII folks would like to attract!
It could call for a return to 3 DII football classes, but my bet is TSSAA will not do this because of "cost". Ironic, because they are prepared to offer 6 championships in DI, "unless there is significant movement to DII".
Well, is they were open to 8 football championships, 6 in DI and 2 in DII, why not go ahead and do 5 in DI and 3 in DII, if there truly is a significant move to DII?
Lots going on.
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"My solution would be to ask the DII schools what they want to do and let them decide. You want the best solution possible for both teams and Tuesday night before Thanksgiving may be the best option."
Great solution since all 9 members of B-C are public and DII has absolutely representation, except advisory. And sometimes they are heard, sometimes they are not. Surely DII could solve this problem themselves.
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Still wondering and listening to rumors about who is going to DII from DI.
Part of it may depend upon the multiplier---if it is adjusted up, then you may get some more movement.
Rumor was Pack went to FRAwith the guarantee that FRA would go DII.
I still see Zion moving over, and maybe some new schools joining TSSAA, like Riverside and Lancaster will move DII.
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I have heard RUMORS
WEST
USJ
Fayette
Trinity Christian
MIDDLE
Zion
Mt Juliet
Lancaster
Riverside
Nashville Christian
Ezell-Harding
EAST
Knox Grace
David Brainerd
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. Also, if he was setting a christian example, why did he get ejected? He hurt his team in the next game because he will have to sit the 1st half out.
Was #5 ejected for sure? If so, it is a one game, not a 1st half suspension.
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I don't know any details on this particular case but I wouldn't lump bartering one's time with financial aid. Two different subjects.
If a hypothetical coach supplies his time to a school and in exchange recieves tuition credit for his kids based on the fair market value of his time, either for all of it or a certain percentage I fail to see a problem. The school is paying for the coach's time not his kids athletic participation as you seem to imply. Unless you can show me where the value of the tuition credits greatly exceeded the fair market value of the coach's time you are really tilting at windmills. I guess the school could have paid the coach ( or paid him more ) for his time and the coach could have then written a check to the school for the full cost of tuition but what is the difference ? The bartering process simplifies things maybe saves someone a few bucks on taxes and appears to be an equitable arranement for all.
How can you fail to see a problem if the rules that govern TSSAA specify clearly that a full time employee (and only a full time employee) can have tuition remitted for their child? Its not about if it seems fair, or fair market value, or tuition credits, or not writing a check to the school, or bartering. It is about black and white wording, about rules that all schools are bound to go by, and I can't imagine how the interpretation of this rule was rendered favorably.
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Defend # 7 he is big and fast
Pressure # 5 he can sling it to # 7
Don't kick to # 20 he can take it to your house if you are not in your lane
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Moore co. lost to St. Andrews 14-13 in 2 quarters and huntland beat community 12-7 in 2 quarters !!!!!!
Waaaaa---St Andrews Beat Moore County????? Anybody got a read on that?????
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No way this will become a TSSAA recogonized state record.
Awesome run, but this was not in a TSSAA meet.
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I understand that the Division II committee will propose to the August Board of Control meeting that all DII "team sports", (football, basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball and soccer) be placed into 2 classes based purely on enrollment. Schools may move up, but may not move down.
This means that there will be 2 state champions crowned in each sport in DII.
It will be very tough on the lower end enrollment schools in football in both classes, but it helps all the other sports.
This may open the gates for current DI privates to move to DII, if the whole landscape of TSSAA has not shifted dramatically as a result of the court decisions and the TSSAA response.
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Off the subject but----
Wrap your mind around the travel that little DIIA schools are being forced to embark upon to play a Region football game.
Look at DBCS and SAS travel---DBCS has alrady taken back to back trips week 2 and 3 from Chattanooga to Memphis. They lucked out in having Lighthouse drop so they did not have to take the third trip.
SAS goes week 7 and 8 to Memphis, is home 9 and back to Memphis week 10.
How can that kind of money be justified for any school------ much less a school that doesn't get a gate to cover game expenses------ much less to fund a travel budget like that????
Safety??? Cost???? Common Sense?????? All out the window.
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Hey give credit to Kings---they have their best team in years. Those kids and Coach Watson have been doormats forever and they have finally put it together this season, at least so far.
Don't beat yourself up for losing to Kings----they are going to end the season with a winning record for the first time in who knows when.
Congrats Kings!
Div II A Regions
in Class 5A & Class 6A
Posted
By this I meant 2 regions from which 4 play off teams come, 2 from each district.
4 districts, each district plays within, !A, 2A, 3A have 4 district games, and 4A has 5 district games.
That way schools have plenty of space to play traditional rivals. This lets the small schools avoid getting shellacked by all the big boys, allows the big boys to play some of their regular rivals and allows the small schools to play some like sized schools as well. Nothing says you could not play other teams in DII, but those games, whether they were against DIIA schools in another district, DIIAA schools, or DI schools, would not count in district standings.