michael.geasley

The new weight certification rules seem to be pushing many of the lighter wrestlers up one or two weight classes. I wonder if teams will have trouble fielding a 103# wrestler (or even a quality 112# wrestler). I thought I'd dredge this old topic up again. Have fun with it.

Weeman "...so for me to wrestle at 125 i have to weigh in between 124.6 and 125..." weeman580 Weeman, I'm not an expert, but I don't think you've interpreted the weight certification rules correctly (at least, I hope you have not). Both of my sons are in your situation (less than 7% body fat) and it is my understanding that they are allowed to wrestle at whatever weight class their weight on certification day allows (i.e. one son was 115# with 4.5% body fat. I understand that means he can wrestle 119# weight class, but will not be allowed to lose down to 112# weight class). As I understand it, you will be allowed to wrestle in the 125# weight class even if you weigh in at say, 121#. Of course, I could be wrong. If I am, someone please correct me.

A positive side to district tournaments is that they reward some of the solid wrestlers that are just out of being a place finisher at region tournaments. Most teams have stars that have been wrestling for years, but the teams also have solid participants that didn't take up the sport until later. It maybe too late for these guys to place in regions, but they could aim at picking up a medal in districts. I'll bet most coaches can think of guys on their team that would benefit from that type of recognition.

Put Oreos on your training table so you can wrestle in a lighter weight class… I appreciate that the State governing body is looking out for the health of our wrestlers. However, I suggest that they need to fairly apply the "2%" rule to everyone. Each of my two sons will wrestle in higher than expected weight class this year because each ones body fat was less than 7% during certifications. One son weighed 136.8# and 6.4% body fat, (On December 26th he would make weight in the 135# weight class with a couple of ounce to spare!). But, because the 2% rule does not apply to him, he has to wrestle in the 140# weight class all year. (As I understand it) had he had another .82 pound of fat on his body then he would have been given the 2% allowance and been able to wrestler the 135# weight class (i.e. he could have weighed more and wrestled at a lower weight!). I guess I should have fed him a bag of Oreos so he could make weight! Bottom line, there are going to be wrestlers that will have to wrestle in higher weight classes than those that are virtually their same size just because the 2% rule is unfairly applied. To further exacerbate this situation, my son is currently running cross country and therefore carrying extra muscle mass in his legs that he will not have during wrestling season. Bottom line here… he'll probably naturally lose a couple of pound of muscles in his legs when he quits running long distances everyday, yet, there are no provisions for recertification. By the first of the year he might often be wrestling guys that out weigh him by 5# at weigh-ins and 7# at match time (after re-hydrating). Anybody have Johnny Cochran’s phone number? (Just kidding).

I thought I understood this system, and then I got to the 2% part. Will someone please explain the significance of the 2%?

... missed the October 9th weigh-in date... Just Wrestle, if you have not had a chance to look at the site listed below, it might be helpful: http://www.tssaa.org/Sports/Wrestling/weightmanagement.cfm I understand that individual certifications can take place at anytime after these dates. This website lists certifying officials and their contact numbers. I think each wrestler can only certify once. After that he has to use the appeal process to get that certification changed. Additionally, I understand that as long as a wrestler is over 7% body fat when they certify, they are allowed to loose weight, but only at certain increments. The website has a PowerPoint presentation that explains this. Please correct me if I've misinterpreted any of this.

Although I'm sure there is fresher information out there yet to come, take a look at the thread labeled "Weight management program for next year...” that I started on April 27, 2004. I talked to Ronnie Carter back in the spring and he said then that our weight program would be designed after Wisconsin's weight program. I posted Wisconsin's weight program in that thread. Please be aware, though, that even though Ronnie Carter said our weight program would be designed after Wisonsin's program, he did not say it would be the same. I want to provide this information so the kids can have an idea of what is to be expected this year. I don't want to spread false rumors.

Thanks Bama. I probably could have done a better job of looking for detailed schedules. I tried to record all the Olympic segments and then fast-forward through the recording until I found wrestling. Somehow that didn't work too well. I understand that "they" (FILA?) are going to change the format of international freestyle wrestling. Something along the lines of three match-play (best two out of three) two minute periods in which each period stands alone. Do you or anyone else reading this post, know if this is true? If so, why and what do you think of the idea. PS: After posting this I saw that there is another string on this message board concerning these changes.

BamaGrappler, you said "I got almost everything, and it was near 9.5 hours..." of Olympic Wrestling. Did you get this off the regular (cable or satellite) telecast or did you pay for premium coverage? I taped hours and hours of the Olympics and only got minutes of wrestling coverage (although I did get hours of our basketball "Dream Team"). Thanks, Geaz

I agree that it could be that this list from the TSSAA website is only for "Large School team duals", (as evidenced by the fact that Page High School, a small school, is not listed with their region (Five)). If this is so, then TSSAA should label this table more accurately. I'm sure that the staff at the TSSAA office are full aware of how excitable we fans (and you coaches) can get about such things. By the way, did I mention that it is unfair that the State wrestling tournament is always held in Chattanooga!?! JUST KIDDING! ..but seriously...

Please allow me to vent. Why can't the TV coverage of the Olympics show the whole six minutes of a wrestling match!?! Or, better yet, why can't they show all the American wrestlers' matches!?! I know it is the same old complaints that we wrestling fans bring up every Olympics (and every NCAA Wrestling Championship), but now, with all the coverage on Bravo, MSNBC, CNBC, etc., there is plenty of non-prime time coverage to show these matches. They showed the entire Field Hockey match between the Netherlands and Germany. They showed the entire baseball game between Cuba and Australia. Surely, there is time to show the few six minute matches in which our wrestlers are involved. Even with TIVO (how did I live without TIVO) it is hard the catch the little bit of wrestling coverage that they have shown.

Would NAIA (National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics) wrestling work in Nashville? Trevecca Nazarene University (TNU), my alma mater, has a beautiful campus located in the heart of Nashville. TNU is a former basketball and baseball rival of Lipscomb and Belmont, when they were NAIA members. Now that Lipscomb and Belmont have moved up into the NCAA, TNU sports gets virtually no publicity. It is my understanding that one of the primary purposes of collegiate athletics is the bring notoriety to a school. TNU's current sports programs fail to do this (Not that I blame anyone in TNU's athletic department). As we all know, there is a new excitement about high school wrestling in middle Tennessee. I would like to see TNU capitalize on that excitement by starting a wrestling program. As an NAIA school, TNU is not capable of having the notoriety as the best basketball or baseball program in the area. But, it would have the best wrestling program; by default. I feel that TNU's recruitment base would be the Southeast (this is the same for their student body as a whole). However, TNU should also be able to attract some of the area's best wrestlers that do not plan to wrestle in college because they do not feel they could compete at the NCAA level. These wrestlers might be interested in prolonging their participation in the sport if given the opportunity to be part of a program that would allow them to compete at a level that is realistic for them and could be viewed by their hometown supporters. TNU's investment would be nominal compared to the cost of even NAIA football programs. TNU could counter some of this cost by hosting high school and collegiate wrestling programs, as well as coaches' and wrestlers' camps and clinics. Of course, Title IX is a factor, but there is a favorable side even to that. Title IX reducing the number of wrestling programs across the States would make TNU's program that much more exclusive. Are there any thoughts or interest in this idea?

At first glace, it seems unfair that a forfeit counts as much as a pin. However, when you consider the alternative, then you can see why it is set up that way. Imagine if a forfeit counted even one point less then a pin. If your team had a real hoss, like Kyle James, then the other teams would usually forfeit and save themselves the one point difference. James might have ended his last season undefeated at 5 – 0! Another advantage to having it set up this way is that if a kid wrestles another team's hoss and losses by a decision (or even a technical fall) instead of being pinned, then he has contributed to his team’s success. It is one way for a newer wrestler to celebrate his progress.

I asked the NFHS about the rumored realignment of wrestling weight classes. Like many of you, I had heard a rumor that the wrestling weight classes would be realigned, to include eliminating two weight classes and setting the lightest weight class up to 108#s. From the following email reply you can see that it is more than a rumor, however, it has yet to be decided. We do know that if they do decide to realign the weight classes, the changes will not affect the 2004 - 2005 season. The following is NFHS' response: "The committee has directed the staff to send information to state associations concerning a possible change in the weight classes. States will be asked to respond and the rules committee will review the results at their April 2005 meeting. Jerry L. Diehl Assistant Director National Federation of State High School Assn. (NFHS) P.O. Box 690 Indianapolis, IN 46206 (O) 317-972-6900 (F) 317-822-5700 www.nfhs.org" I responded to the NFHS with the following email: Dear Mr. Diehl, Thank you for your response. Please allow me to make the following observations: Large athletes have many sports that allow them to display their abilities. Wrestling is a sport that allows the small athletes the chance to excel. I concede that the level of competition in the small weight classes is typically not equal to that of the large weight classes (small weight class tournament champions are often underclassmen and there are usually more forfeits in the small weight classes). However, I contend that wrestling tends to be more important to the small athlete because he has limited sports options. Wrestling, to the large athlete, is often something that he does during football's off season. For the small athlete, it may be the only sport in which he can compete. The small weight classes have already lost their lightest weight class. I would like to express my views to the Tennessee state association. Would you mind providing a point of contact? Respectfully, Michael Geasley

My understanding is that the TSSAA would like to implement the weight management program next year (2004-2005) but that it is not guaranteed that the new program will be in place by that time. Mr. Carter didn't say (and I didn't think to ask) what would have to happen in order to implement the new program.

I talked to Ronnie Carter with TSSAA. He said, (I'm paraphrasing here and potentially inaccurately), that they want to implement the weight management program next year but it is not certain that they will. Additionally, (see earlier caveat) they are using Wisconsin’s high school wresting weight management program as a guide. For those interested, here is Wisconsin’s program (per this website). [source: Wisconsin Interscholastic Athletic Association] http://www.wiaawi.org/publications/winterr...regulations.pdf l . Schools are required to follow the provisions of the weight certification program established by the Association for all wrestlers competing in varsity and junior varsity programs. The establishment of a minimum wrestling weight based on 7% body fat for males and 12% for females will be mandatory for all senior high school wrestlers. The W I A A does not advocate that a wrestler’s established minimum weight is the athlete’s best weight, but simply the minimum weight at which the athlete will be allowed to compete. Note: Due to W I A A minimum weight rules, National Federation Rule 1-3-2a and b are not applicable. ( 1 ) Establishing Minimum Weights ( a ) Skinfold measurements will be utilized to determine each wrestler’s body fat percentage. 1 ) Each wrestler must pass a test to substantiate that they are at an acceptable level of hydration before they can have skinfold measurements taken. Details regarding the specific test to be used, the testing protocol, etc. will be mailed to each wrestling school prior to the earliest date for measurements. Once a wrestler has reported for hydration testing they may not be withdrawn. 2 ) Only measurements taken by health care professionals who have successfully completed the W I A A Skinfold Measurement Workshop will be accepted. Schools will receive a list of approved measurers. It is the responsibility of the school to contact a skinfold measurer from this list, and arrange a time to have the wrestling squad measured. 3 ) Measurements may not be taken after practice, or a workout. If the measure r has reason to believe any of the wrestlers are in a dehydrated state, they shall refuse to measure such wrestler( s ) 4 ) No senior high wrestler may compete or participate in pre-meet activities until the athlete has had a minimum weight determined, and the school has received a printout from the W I A A office so indicating. ( b ) The lowest weight class a wrestler may compete at will be determined as follows: 1 ) If the predicted weight, at 7% body fat, is exactly that of one of the weight classes that shall be the wrestler’s minimum weight class. 2 ) If the predicted weight, at 7% body fat, falls between two weight classes, they must wrestle at the higher weight class. 3 ) With documented (see Note below) parental permission, the wrestler may wrestle at the weight class in which their 7% predicted weight, less 2% of that weight, places them. The deadline for parental permission is February 1. Note: The official parental permission form provided by the W I A A office must be used. The school must have the completed form on file before the wrestler is allowed to compete at that weight. ( 2 ) Time Period for Measurements ( a ) Skinfold measuring may begin on the third Monday of October (October 20 for the 2003-04 season). Wrestlers may be measured on or following that date. All wrestlers, including those coming out late, must have their minimum weight established and have received their minimum weight printout from the W I A A prior to any competition. ( b ) Wrestlers, who with parental permission are within two (2) pounds of a lower weight class as determined by their original skinfold measurement and minimum weight projection printout may be hydrostatically re-weighed at any time during the season, prior to January 15, 2004, whether the athlete has competed or not. 1 ) Hydrostatic weighing done at any time, whether as part of the existing appeal process or in accordance with this provision (2 , shall be considered final and binding, with no further testing options available. Note: This provision does not alter or restrict any other requirements pertaining to establishing a wrestlers minimum weight prior to competing or to the existing appeal process. ( c ) The absolute deadline for submitting forms will be noon of the Tuesday prior to regional competition. ( d ) Results of measurements are typically processed within 24 hours of receipt in W I A A office and will be returned via regular mail immediately. Arrival of results at the schools depends on the speed of mail delivery in your area. Plan ahead to allow enough time for possible mail delays. DO NOT RELY ON FAXING BY W I A A. Note: If measurements are received in the W I A A office during Thanksgiving week, it may not be possible for the W I A A to process them until the following week. ( e ) If skinfold measurements occur after December 25, the wrestler must make scratch weight. ( 3 ) School Administration’s Responsibilities for the Measurement Process ( a ) It is the school’s responsibility to contact an approved measurer from the list provided by the W I A A . ( b ) School Administration or their designee must take reasonable precautions to insure the accuracy and validity of their hydration testing procedure. Schools will be sent a list of suggestions to help them collect secure samples from each wrestler. ( c ) The school must have available at the time of the skinfold measuring: 1 ) Material for testing each wrestlers state of hydration (A list of these materials will be mailed to each wrestling school along with information regarding the testing protocol). 2 ) A certified scale (certified after the start of school in the fall and before October 20). Beam Scales must be certified annually. Electronic scales must be certified every three years. 3 ) Skinfold data forms. 4 ) A school official (e.g., A.D., coach, teacher) who will: a ) Assist with obtaining the weight of each wrestler. b ) Assist with the recording of all data. 5 ) An individual to administer the test to determine state of hydration of each wrestler. (e.g., school nurse, biology teacher) ( d ) It is the skinfold measurer’s responsibility to send the data sheets to the W I A A . ( e ) A wrestler is not eligible to wrestle until their school has received from the W I A A a printout with their name and minimum weight class indicated. ( 4 ) Growth Allowance Growth allowance will be two pounds on December 25, and one additional pound on both February 1 and March 1. Note: A wrestler IS NOT eligible for a weight class because of growth allowance and/or allowances f o r successive days wrestling, which bring a weight class up to their 7% minimum weight. Note : If skinfold measurements occur after December 25, the wrestler must make scratch weight. ( 5 ) Weight Loss Per We e k ( a ) A weight loss limit of one-half pound per day has been set. The projected earliest date to wrestle at the predicted minimum will be broken down into days. This date will appear on the printout received from the W I A A offices . ( b ) A wrestler will not be allowed to wrestle at any time in a weight class that would require them to lose more than one-half pound per day from the original date of measurement or from one weigh-in (for competition) to another when they are changing weight classes. Coaches must be able to provide documentation of appropriate weight loss anytime a wrestler drops to a lower weight class (minimum of last two weigh-in sheets). ( c ) The deadline for challenges regarding weight loss violations/procedures shall be two working days following the completion of all State Championships. ( d ) To determine whether or not a wrestler has violated the 1/2 lb./day weight loss limit, the upper limit of the weight class he/she wished to compete in shall be deducted from his/her actual weight as recorded at the previous event(s) in which he/she weighed in. ( 6 ) Appeal Process ( a ) Any wrestler may appeal their skinfold measurements or calculations. The steps of the appeal process are as follows: Step 1 must be completed within 14 days of the original measurement. Step 1 may be by-passed and only Step 2 performed. There is no waiting period for Step 2. It must, however, be done before the wrestler’s first competition. Step 1: If dissatisfied with the results, the wrestler is remeasured by the same skinfold measurer. Measurements must be within 14 days of the original date of measurement. The wrestler chooses which measurement to accept (the original or the second measurement). Note: For Step 1 Appeal, the wrestler must be re-weighed at time of appeal and weight recorded on scantron form. (The hydration test is not repeated.) If the wrestler exceeds 1/2 pound per day weight gain or loss from date of original measurement, the appeal will be rendered invalid. The wrestler’s original weight will be used for calculations. Step 2: If dissatisfied with the results the wrestler may choose to be hydrostatically weighed to determine body fat percentage. Results obtained at this step are automatically accepted; the athlete has no choice. *Wrestlers wishing to use this appeal must have their coach contact the WIAAoffice for details regarding forms, testing sites, etc. *Hydrostatic weighing facilities must be approved by the WIAA. *Only the form made available by the WIAA office may be used for this step. Forms have been provided to all approved facilities. *Step 2 (hydrostatic weighing) must be performed prior to the wrestler’s first competition. (7) During the regular season (non-WIAA tournament events), coaches are to have 7% printouts and all previous weigh-in sheets of wrestlers competing that day available for all coaches at weigh-ins. If a coach cannot, or does not produce them within two working days from the date of the meet, it shall be reported to the WIAA office by the opposing coach. A forfeiture shall be ordered for every wrestler for whom there is no printout and/or weigh in sheet from previous meets. (See (5) © above.) (8) Nutrition Education Program While not mandatory, it is highly recommended that each school provide the nutrition education aspect of the program to wrestlers. Contact the WIAA for information/resources. (9) Costs All costs incurred for the initial skinfold measurement, hydration testing, appeal process, and nutrition education program are the responsibility of the school.

It is my understanding that Tennessee will implement a new percentage-of-body-fat program next year. Since my sons are already under 7% body fat in the off season, while eating junk food and playing X-box, I'm interested in the details of the new program (by the way, they definitely take after their mother and not me).

REFTN, Thanks for the info on page 5.

Let me preemptively say that this post is not intended to poke at the individuals that run the tournament. They do an outstanding job.

How about a double elimination State Wrestling Tournament? (Is this another old question that is brought up every year at this time? LOL) There were some very good wrestlers that didn't make it to the medal rounds due to their place on the brackets (for example, returning medalist, Speroff (Collierville @119) lost in overtime to Fuller (SD) in the first round of matches. Fuller then lost to eventual champion, Cordell (BC). Fuller's loss put Speroff out of the tournament after one overtime loss). I realize that we can not overcome all the inequities in a tournament (of course the only difference between #2 and #3 is often that #3 lost to #1 first), but using a double elimination tournament would go a long ways towards fixing this particular problem. I don't know how much additional time it would take to run a double elimination tournament. However, over the three days Div I was there, there seemed to be a lot to down time. The extra matches might be run at the gym across the street.

Congratulations Nic. Those of us who have seen you wrestle for several years where not all that surprised.

Reftn, Please educate me... It is my understanding that refs are trained to look for certain visual clues to help them make a correct call. For example, a ref told me that he looks for three points of contact to make an out of bounds call (ie. 2 arms + 1 leg or visa versa). Are there any tell-tell signs to help determine stalling on top or bottom? I think I understand from earlier post that if the top guy has in legs he has to work a specific arm or he will be called for stalling after about 10 seconds. I've seen where the bottom guy has been called for stalling after continually grabbing the top wrestler's hands. What should we look for?

For the record, I think West (@130) should have been hit with at least one more stalling call. But, I'm biased, plain and simple. I like Holliman (West's opponent). I think Holliman forced the match but the ref didn't want to award another penalty point because he didn't want to appear to have influenced the outcome too much. Of course Holliman had multiple opportunities to overcome the ref's reluctance to make the correct call. That being said, I congratulate Mr. West on being the well-deserved Div I, 130# State Wrestling Champion. I've got 75# on Holliman and I don't think I could hold him down for 30 second.

Congratulations to the Irish and to MBA. These are two excellent programs that are well supported by their fans. FR's Charlie Otto is fun to watch because he just gets after his guy. Simpson v Hiller: I can't believe this match has not lit up this board! First off, my son wrestles for another high school (Page), so I don't have a dog in this fight. Hiller scored his reversal 3 seconds after the match was over! I'm not going to jump on the ref too hard because the crowd noise blocked out the horn and Ryan didn't have a towel-taper for that match (you can bet they did for all the following matches). The MBA crowd was screaming in celebration at the end of the match time and the Ryan crowd was screaming because Hiller was finally starting to fight back. All together they drowned out the horn. If I'm Simpson, I count this as a win.

And just think, two of these guys don't even make it to State!