TheGreatLineJudge

I cant believe that this has really been debated for so long. Im sorry but stomping the bleachers and yelling at the server is not wrong nor is it unsporting. You tell me how that is unsporting when you can sit behind the backboard of a basketball game and wave flags while screaming your lungs out. Kinda seems like the same thing to me. This is high school athletics and its about the kids. Let them cheer and so long as they do not scream directly at the player by calling her name or number then let it be.

 

GLJ your best asset may very well be your biggest demise. You know the rules, you understand the game. You just need to loosen up man. Kids are gonna yell and fans are gonna stomp the bleachers. Thats totally ok to do!

Harp,

There's a fine line between what's acceptable and what's not. Without seeing it for myself, I couldn't give you my judgment on what's ok and what's not. I saw the Page stuff myself.

One man's lift is another's "play on". This topic is a critical subject, in my opinion, because it is at the heart of what we all want to see more of - avid spectators in the crowd. You are entitled to your opinion, harp, and some referees may see it the way you do. In my professional opinion, it's a judgment call and it's entirely situational.

Indeed it is about the kids. However, if things go too far, someone must protect the player's rights/interests - that responsibility rests solely with the referee.

Harp, would you stomp on the bleachers - intending to distract the server - when your own team is serving?

Folks, I'm not discouraging loudness. Indeed, the more the merrier.

I AM discouraging the use of disconcerting tactics - in this case, stomping on the bleachers (from the top level) right before serve.

I dont agree that stomping the bleachers is an artificial noisemaker. I want to see it in the guidelines before I believe it.

In principle, if the players can't do it, the crowd can't do it. One of the only offensive behaviors I observed from "The Firm" was stomping on the bleachers AS A GIRL WAS TRYING TO SERVE. THAT is disruptive and over the line. The official on that match put a stop to it and rightfully so.

I'm guessing this is Division II-AA?

I haven't seen too much on Lincoln County volleyball, when they've only lost one game, but it wasn't even a district game. What do ya'll have to say about them?

Can't say much without some information. Do share, please:

-Competition defeated

-Tournaments played in/won

-"Biggest" win of the year

You know, the good stuff. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> If you're that strong, c'mon up to a tournament like Blackman/Siegel or Page puts on. That'll get your name out there - and boost your reputation if you do well.

The quaterfinal playoff will consist of best 3 out of 5 and thats it? Am i understanding that correctly? So couple of east/ middle teams will have to travel out to Memphis and Memphis will have to come to east/midddle for best 3 out of 5? Then the winners of those games will travel to Murfreesboro. Thanks for all your help!

Shockingly correct. Where the logic is in this, especially considering a Memphis to Chattanooga possibility, beats me. I may "represent" TSSAA on the court, but I sure don't understand many of their moves.

I can appreciate the "sectional" style of lineup here, but the potential drive is outrageous. I suppose this is why it's being held on a Saturday (at 7 pm, even, if my information is correct).

Huge difference in clapping and chanting vs. kicking the bleachers with your heels. The latter will quite possibly get you in trouble, as it's an artificial noisemaker. The former is just good fan involvement.Huge difference in clapping and chanting vs. kicking the bleachers with your heels. The latter will quite possibly get you in trouble, as it's an artificial noisemaker. The former is just good fan involvement.

Does anyone know when and where the regional tournaments will be?

TSSAA usually has the best collective information @ http://www.tssaa.org/schdir/tournaments/to...ls%20Volleyball

One big thing to remember:

Regional tournaments are hosted by each district in opposite years (Odd # district in odd years, etc.). Some regions elect to have a certain school host, period. Others believe that whoever wins district has earned the right to host region, therefore they host. The best time to check is the Monday before regions, as all district winners should be in and the regional sites set in stone.

Welcome to the VB forum, by the way!

are you a jerk it starts today and i need the schedule

Thanks for telling us it starts today. Why don't you call the school or call someone about it? They'll know better than most people here, as fans from that area don't really post much about volleyball on CoachT. You can't just take, take, take information. To be respected here, you must give as good as you get.

You're a newspaper man, right? Go out to the matches and get the results! Don't rely on an internet message board to make reports!

Thanks for all the kind, considered replies. I must apologize if I came across as a little harsh on H.S. coaches. There ARE many fines ones I've seen. Unfortunately, their skill/talent is largely un-available to the general public. Therein lies most of the problem.

 

Maybe I haven't looked closely enough but there just seems to be a need for good affordable instruction/participation for those players between Beginner and Elite. My experience is with Fastpitch where Rec League is nearly extinct. It is all Travel Ball, Travel Ball or nothing else. I hate to see VBall go the same route.

 

/thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

The opinion isn't completely unwarranted, CoachB. While most of the schools discussed on these forums have rather knowledgeable coaches, there's PLENTY of schools who don't. I'm not talking about the people who have some sort of background in the game, but don't win "big". Those folks are making an honest effort to pass what knowledge they have to their players.

I'm talking about the baseball coach or basketball coach (cliche examples) who "has" to take volleyball as part of the job requirement. Or the places where someone is just appointed to the position.

There are places where the coach has a background, but they don't know or don't teach fundamentals. Still, I think they're making an effort to do their best. I don't know that volleyball is going the "softball route", but I'll speculate and say that the sports share some common facts.

-Longer season than high school, thus more preparation/teaching/playing time.

-More ability to travel for weekend/summer tournaments, thus better competition and more games.

-Better facilities and general resources. I can't help but think of something like the Club K facility (which is shared by Impact)... DEDICATED facilities, as opposed to what may/may not be available at the high school level.

-Specialists in the coaching ranks. I attest to it with volleyball, so I imagine it's true in softball: if you go to these tournaments, everyone is there for volleyball, volleyball, volleyball. They live it. They breathe it. They're deeply knowledgeable because it's their sole focus. Just like anything in life, the best people are those who are a pure-play in the desired product/service. (You don't go to Best Buy to get your car serviced, right? I'm sure one of those guys can check everything under the hood, but you go to a car specialist to get the quality you desire.)

-The best coaches want to work with the girls with the most promise. That's a two way street.

By the way, Barbara's daughter's name is Courtney.

Guidelines for spectators:

1. It can never be personal. In HS, if you say a name or number and say something really off-hand, that's a problem. However, after a shank, if someone yells "Nice hit there, #16!" and you think that's bad, get real.

2. It can't be over-the-top during the serve. You can't be stomping or kicking the bleachers in an effort to distract a server. Yelling in unison is just a bunch of white noise. Especially if done the entire time the server is in process. If someone screams right before contact, you may have a case. Do you really expect a volleyball gym so quiet you can hear a pin drop?

3. No intentional physical contact. Ever.

4. No stepping out on the court and attempting to interfere with play. IMMEDIATE ejection from my court - no questions asked.

5. No artificial noisemakers.

6. And most importantly, CHEER FOR YOUR OWN TEAM first and foremost. Nothing wrong with a little attention for the opponent, but give your efforts to your own team.

Other items to consider:

- If a crowd does it to their own team, you can't complain about them doing it to yours.

- Loud, proud fans are a commodity in short supply in this sport. Appreciate them.

- Be realistic. A serious player/coach can't tell me they can't play or win simply because of a few people in the stands. The best way to make them quiet? Play harder and show them they can't shake you.

Is this license to be nasty and obscene and intervene in the match? Of course not. But use some common sense. If you'd be proud to have them on your side of the court, don't wish them away for the opponent.

Finally, I witnessed the group of male fans in question. While they may unsettle some folks because they're not accustomed to that type of enthusiasm, they were properly behaved most of the time. There were a couple of things that weren't kosher, but those were stopped. I've witnessed more outrageous behavior from groups of parents than a small group of high school students.

what teams were there?

Try attending sometime. Takes care of most/all questions. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

You are correct in postulating what I was after, catuballer. I'm looking to compare "everything else" but the play itself. If we are going to compare the two to each other, we must compare everything.

Surely there are some other elements that I'm not thinking about.

P.S. I used to make some incredibly long posts about rules and their interpretation/analysis. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Take a step away from the actual playing side of it for a moment.

How do you compare the team selection process? The tournaments/competition? The chemistry OR lack of it? The support from relevant members of the program? Let's go a step further in depth on this discussion.

From what I understand they only count the number of students every three years or so. So, enrollment may have been down when they did the last classification for AC and up for Sullivan East.

You're correct. TSSAA only digs into the numbers every four or five years. At that point they reclassify schools and redraw districts.

WOW. Division I remains the same, with the sectional format and 8 teams arriving at State proper.

Division II is having a quarterfinal playoff at the higher seed's site; only 4 teams proceed to State as we know it. Double elimination tournament with the top 4 A and top 4 AA. Very interesting.

I would really like to see TSSAA split this district up differently.

I wish, harpua. Likely will never happen though, simply because they're all AAA and from the same county. If they were from different counties, it'd be possible. If WCS keeps building schools and knocks a few down to A-AA (highly unlikely), maybe then. Sadly, for the schools in this district, it's going to keep being a hard road to travel.

I wouldn't count anyone out of this district so quick. I expect every team to lay EVERYTHING on the line, as it's put out or go home. Going to be a heated atmosphere with all the desire to survive.

This is what October is all about. Should be fantastic!

Here's a link to the cover story for the October issue of On the Ball Middle Tennessee about club volleyball's influence on scholastic volleyball by Doug Dyer.

 

http://ontheballmag.com/headlines.cfm?m=2&a=292

I'm always happy to see coverage of our sport, as we get so little of it. But the cover was amazing! I read the piece two weeks ago when I picked up the hard copy. I've been meaning to e-mail you guys ever since. BEAUTIFUL piece of writing. Seriously the best volleyball article I've ever read in this state. Great short-n-sweet on the history of volleyball in Tennessee and the effect of club on play. Excellent sources and I'm really glad you put mostly facts in the piece - and allowed the reader to decide their own opinion. Also liked the spotlights, by school, on some volleyball players from schools you'll never really hear from otherwise.

Thank you for doing us a major service. PLEASE keep it up. I hope you'll come out to the club tournaments in the area when club season rolls around.

By the way, if you're from the Tennessean and reading this, fire that clown who wrote the last piece and hire that Dyer fellow. THAT man knows how to write about volleyball! /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

GLJ, do you have kids that play club? It is very very expensive. It is not just the fee to play, it is the travel. Coaches don't have to pay for their travel costs and don't realize that there are many people going in debt with the hopes that it is an investment in their child's future (as in a scholarship). The coaches/directors of clubs will require players/parents to go to tournaments the night before any tournament - even if it is an 1 1/2 to 2 hours away, in order to make sure they get their "rest". Even though the parent may prefer saving $150 - $200 plus (extra meals/hotel) by getting up a little early on game day to drive.

 

If people are playing club just because it is fun or they want to get better because they like the sport, then they have a whole lot more money than most and money is not an issue. Plus, if they are on a 3rd tier team, they don't travel as much and the cost is not the quite the same. That is why I have said in the past that this is a rich person's sport and why your best teams in this state and nationally are either private schools or from public schools in areas that tend to have a little more money (Brentwood, Franklin, Georgetown, Collierville, etc.). It costs a lot of money to play at the top club level and only those who are the "haves" or willing to go in debt to be a "have" can afford it. the "Have Nots" simply can't play club. It is painfully obvious that club players have a major advantage - unless you go to AC, of course.

 

GLJ: Half way agree?

 

GLJ, I also don't understand the Culleoka comment? I like their program. They have some serious talent and sometimes I think you and others under estimate them.

Whether they can truly afford it or not, I still stick to my opinion that #1 and #2 teams' players have the goal of a college scholarship. My statement isn't a debate on costs and if they're worth it. I realize the financial burden is considerable. I've been told by many folks how much so. The #3 and beyonds are there to play for enjoyment or to improve their game. People spend money on all sorts of things for their own reasons. No one questions whether they paid cash or make payments by the month. That's a personal, private choice each person/family must make. Mind you, the extracurricular financial situation is not exclusive to volleyball. For those reasons, I still "halfway" agree with you.

By the way, where is this Georgetown you speak of? I know not of a Georgetown HS or any HS in Georgetown, TN. Culleoka had some very respectable talent a few years ago, but they are no longer there. Even then, I never understood the affinity. Nice folks though.

Long story short: the financial choice is just like any other you make. Commitment, where to play, how much effort, level of expense, etc. Some go to the tropics and others go to a state park for vacation. How it's funded and the reasons for the choice are no one's business but the person paying the bill.

I didn't see a response to your question - 17 on the list have played at AC since I've been around - 7 years - and my daughter is on the list... /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

A great showing regardless of what level of collegiate play!

Yikes! Who stepped on the cat's tail? /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

I will halfway agree with you about playing club with the hopes of getting a college scholarship. For the #1 and #2 "travel" teams with the strong programs, I would tend to agree with that. The #3 and beyond teams are (in my view/opinion) the girls who seek to play better and enjoy the game. They also tend to have the coaches that aren't hyper aggressive. Neither pro nor con there, just an observation. With a club program that's not as strong, you could argue the #2 team and maybe even #1 team isn't out to get a scholarship. Just depends on the competitive landscape in that area and what the program's goals are.

P.S. Welcome out of retirement, catuballer. Still don't understand that affinity for Culleoka! /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

The topic got off topic and out of hand, so I took it out. If someone wants to start it afresh, feel free. It needs to stay on-topic this time.

Nobody is flipping out and if you read my post I AM laughing.

You don't sound terribly happy when replying.

Can’t I prod a little bit too?

Certainly, but within reason.

Why do you feel the need to come to the rescue of VD78?

I don't.

Can’t he speak for himself?

I sure hope so.

I have seen far more prodding than this and you didn’t breathe a word.

I probably wasn't active that day. I am today.

Why don’t you back off and let it run its course?

Because the topic is WAY off course. And because I don't have to.

That is what others want to see.

Really? Let them speak.

I am laughing and having fun.

If you say so.

If VD78 is not having fun, let him speak and I will leave him alone

I'll hold you to it.

or either you will delete this post and protect him further.

Maybe I'll delete it just because I can.

Since your daughter is playing college ball, why do you give a rip about posting here? I sense an ulterior motive. But that is OK, it is a free country after all and I am not the Judge. You keep right on posting and I will keep laughing and shaking my head.

 

Shock It To Me Baby!

Take a comment in jest. Laugh about it. Be glad others have a sense of humor. But for goodness sake's, lighten up! This is a message board and we're all here because we love volleyball. Was it a bit of a prod? Sure. Is it something to flip out over. Absolutely not. VBD is a decent guy. I've met him and so have plenty of people on here.

There's nothing wrong with folks staying involved on message boards after their kids go beyond high school. Why? They love the game, same as you. There's plenty of folks on here who don't have kids playing volleyball at all.

Now quit boo-hooing and get back to the topic at hand.

And you're right, HV. I am the Judge. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

As a secondary thought and to help analyze club vs. no club in helping get college recruits, allow me this:

How many AC signees were before the last 5 years?

How many were in the last 5 years?

You have to remember that USAV is still relatively new to Tennessee; it's not new in other areas of the country. This is why we're getting so much stronger - our performance is improving more, relative to how other areas' performance is improving. Prior to USAV being so popular here, there were fewer "big name" recruits and less ability to scout players here. With Tennessee players getting more and more exposure every year, the competition for scholarships at ALL levels of collegiate play will intensify. Coaches will get more selective as the talent available to them improves.

In the past, club didn't play as much of a role. But as that part of the sport in this area gets more popular, it will become more of a factor.