TheGreatLineJudge

We're nearly a month removed from the state tournament now. I'm a bit past due, but I've been busy .

Thank you to everyone who participated on the volleyball forums this season. We had a lot of good discussions, a few crazy ones, and hopefully, some new folks have been turned on to our beloved sport. It was a long season for me, personally, but I really enjoyed getting out and going to as many places as I did.

There were several changes this year - new rules, new coaches, retiring coaches, etc. There are going to be some dramatic changes in the mid-state before next season. But, the best interests of our sport will be served and, hopefully, the best is yet to come.

I enjoyed meeting some of you for the first time this season and seeing others on return trip. I hope to continue to see the same good folks at matches and tournaments in the years to come. Volleyball is a relatively small community, but there are a lot of good people out there. I'm honored to call some of you my friend.

Thanks to all, again, for posting. If you know someone who is interested in officiating, please don't hesitate to e-mail me. We continue to need officials who know the game; without knowledgeable people, the officiating quality will never improve.

I'll be seeing some of you in the off-season. Otherwise, we'll be seeing you in August. The best is yet to come!

TGLJ

Since this is for high school sports why dont you post it under coach t college sports, why not keep college games and scores within the coach t college.

Most people don't know about or don't notice the collegiate board. This is something of interest to high school fans; if it didn't get noticed, people wouldn't know about it til too late.

Also, the championship is being shown live on the internet.

http://www.atlanticsun.org/volleyball/voll...hampionship.asp

Go down under 'Schedule' to Nov 18, 1:00 pm and click on live video. Enjoy!

November 10-11: TranSouth Conference (NAIA) Tournament @ Cumberland University, Lebanon, TN Link

Friday - Starts at 9 am, matches scheduled every 2 hours with the final start at 7 pm; dual courts

Saturday - Starts at 9 am, matches scheduled every 2 hours with the final scheduled for 3 pm; single court; 5 pm championship match if necessary (double elimination)

November 17-18: NAIA Region XI @ Cumberland; times TBA; semis on Friday, finals on Saturday

November 17-18: Atlantic Sun Conference (NCAA Division I) Tournament @ Belmont University, Nashville, TN Link

Enjoy!

Also, understand that the Jackson Jrs. (club name) does not have website yet, so may contact some of the other clubs to find out some insider info on best way to go about this. Any/all help appreciated and good luck to the girls attending last night.

OT,

I would believe the simplest route to go would be to just register your web address.

It's a new club, so people need information. It doesn't have to be fancy or eye-popping; people visiting the new website are obviously interested in volleyball. INFORMATION is the most important thing right now. Register the website (I recommend directnic.com, as I've used them a few times and I've been very pleased.. webhosting is included in the reg fee), download a simple "WYSIWYG" editor (basically, a text editor that converts it to HTML for you.. I recommend Mozilla Composer, which is part of the standard Mozilla browser suite), and publish your info (find a free FTP program).

Basic info you need to get posted ASAP:

-The fact that the club is in existence

-Basic tryout/meeting information

-A PHONE NUMBER that people can call

-E-mail address that people can send messages to

-Club director, etc. info, so people know who they're dealing with

-A nice message saying, in effect, "Hi, we're new. We're getting our name out there. We'll put up a prettier website later, but in the meantime, here's what you need to know."

You're basically looking at ($15 x # of years your register for.. go for 2 years at least to begin) $30 plus a few hours of someone's time to get a website going. It's important to get the information out there while it's still fresh on people's minds.

Feel free to e-mail me if you want/need to. Good luck in building your new club and congrats!

Many club teams are mentioned, but where are they, how do you contact them, etc?

For those who know, please list:

-Club name

-Location

-Website address

-Club director, any other key people

-Stuff worth mentioning about said club

For example:

Impact Volleyball Club

Nashville, TN

www.impactvbc.org

Jay Golsteyn, Director

15 Teal won 2006 15 Club National Championship

--------------------------------------------------------

Clubs I'm aware of, but may or may not know much about:

Impact, Williamson Select, Dig To Win, Smoky Mountain Juniors, Metro Juniors (Memphis), etc.

http://boards.coacht.com/index.php?showforum=91

I noticed that a non-Plus member posted recently, so, perhaps, all can post.

See you there!

Man, well thought out and well written.

I thought I would let you know that the R-1 for the D-II Championship game (who did a decent job) was calling lines at none other than the UT LAdy Vols versus Kentucky on Wedensday night. Must be pretty good?

Thanks! I knew that he did SEC lines; supposedly, he's going to try and get some of the state tournament line judges in at Knoxville to do SEC stuff. Whether it works out or not for those folks, it's a nice gesture.

I've never seen him do lines, so I couldn't tell you my thoughts on the performance there. I can tell you, though, that he holds a PAVO Certified Line Judge rating; to my knowledge, only three people in Tennessee hold that - two are in the Knoxville area.

He also got to fly in (on NCAA dime, no less) to Penn State last year when the Lady Vols were in the Sweet Sixteen. Supposedly, if a team makes it to NCAA play, they get to take a line judge with them and that line judge works matches that their team is NOT in.

Before I step away from the corner for good (if ever), I hope to work something NCAA.

But until then, I hope we can improve the quality of officiating here in the state.

I assure the readers of this forum that a group of concerned people are trying to do something. If we have our way, a group of qualified persons will travel across the state and rate officials who are interested in working at state.

Either way, something's GOT to change.

From PHargis:

The obvious question to me, after reading some of this, is how did this group of officials get to state. GLJ said that they were picked by their association but who made the rule that it should be done like that and when was it done.

I believe TSSAA allowed the associations to do as such.

Has it been done in years past that way or is this the first year.

For as long as I've been involved (plenty of time), it has been.

What are the associations rules and how much control does the TSSAA have over the qualifications of officials in its major events?

The associations have no rules. The assigner alone makes the call; most areas don't have a truly functioning "association". They generally just have a group of people who get together, but no directors, etc. or 'structure' to make an "association".

The ONLY screening criteria that TSSAA has is the passing of the Part II Exam. And guess what? IT was open book this year! Ugh!! WHY does this need to be open book?! Isn't the whole point to examine what you know and understand without consulting the rule book?

Bottom line, TSSAA has very little control, at best, over who comes.

I believe it would be good to know. Pageman said someone told him that it was not some officials turn to officiate. All of this must be written down somewhere so that it can be read. Where is that?

"Turn" in the sense that some folks have been to state in recent years and the assigner chooses not to send them back quite so soon. This is not written down anywhere. Again, assigner's discretion.

The TSSAA certainly has rules that control the eligibility of officials and then the associations then pick from those that have met qualifications within their group.

You give TSSAA WAY too much credit. Yes, in an ideal situation, this goes on. But it doesn't. It simply doesn't.

There are basic eligibility rules, for purposes to registering, which are basically: Be 18+, be out of high school, don't be a convicted felon.

Then you have the Part II Rules Exshamination. That's all you have to do to technically be qualified to work state. No minimum experience. No ratings/reviews on a performance basis. Nothing.

What happens if an association has no one a particular year that met qualifications?

I fear some of them are sending them anyways. Of course, no area would believe that at least "someone" isn't ready. It may be that person who's blown a whistle for 10 years, but doesn't know squat about the rules. They are the most "ready" to go to state, and sometimes, these are the people who DO go.

Does the association just send anyone or maybe the TSSAA doesn't have qualifications to give to the associations. Anyone know?

Considering there's no uniform rating system, much less a true group of QUALIFIED people to do the rating, how could TSSAA (by way of their state supervisor of officials, who does everything... at least she's a volleyball person; the format this year wasn't her fault) know and understand who really should be at state?

I wonder, sometimes, if the assigners give any thought to who they send. Then again, where they're from, that person may be the "best".

All of this is beginning to make me think that the officials ranks are thin and with the obvious turnover that I can see as a fan in many sports, that "qualified" officials are hard to find.

Turnover does hurt the officiating ranks, but that doesn't mean that really, really good people are impossible to find. There are more than enough qualified, EXPERIENCED, knowledgable people in this state to conduct an outstanding state tournament.

I know that we aren't going to get the absolute creme a la creme every single year, but we can at least have people who understand the rules. There's got to be better people than the crew that came in '06!!

When someone is qualified by years, it may be the reason why basketball asked coaches to rank, to determine calling ability. Maybe thats not a bad idea and maybe the reason why Pat was trying to blackball some of his officials.

Qualification by years is a dangerous prospect. Let us assume that you have an official in their 10th year and an official in their 3rd year.

Has the official in their 10th year had the same experience every single year, or has their knowledge and understanding grown every year?

Does the official in their 3rd year know the rules and understand the game better than the 10th year, only now lacking the experience?

This is the challenge we face. If learning/openness to learning ever stops, it doesn't matter how long someone has had a whistle in their mouth. They begin repeating the same "experience" as they have in years past, instead of gaining new experience and dealing with tough game situations.

I am beginning to see now why all of the commotion about officiating and why the disparity in calling. Those associations who send officials to a State Tournament that are not qualified, have no respect for the sport nor those who play it.

I'm not sure if they have no respect for the sport. I see where you're coming from, though, in that by not doing their best, they're not giving it respect.

"Qualified", though, is sometimes in the eye of the beholder. They may be that area's "most qualified", but when they are next to, say, Chattanooga's best or Nashville's best, they possibly don't even compare.

Doesn't mean they can't send people who are knowledgable in the rules. As long as they know the rules, they can hopefully handle a tough match. When you've had a Brentwood vs. Father Ryan caliber of match, working a tough match at state doesn't scare you. But if you've never had something like that, I imagine the prospects of a hard match (especially when it counts) is unnerving.

We can say consistancy was the leveling factor and I can see that argument but it appeared to me that someone was picking the best in the state and in somes eyes, they were. I guess this sport has a little ways to go.

Some would say that just because they consistently called nothing, they were consistent. I disagree.

If side 'A' had 5 BHEs not called, but side 'B' had 8 or 9 BHEs not called, guess what? You have a 4 point difference. In a match where the teams have been neck in neck, 4 points is HUGE. This is also a penalty to a team that has good ballhandling. If a team with good hands plays a team who completely butchers the ball, who suffers? Certainly not the butchers. The good BH team gets unfairly disadvantaged and the butchers get an unfair advantage.

I'm not saying to ring up every ugly hit or even the grey area stuff. But if the balls are rolling up the arms and NOT being called (I saw this way too many times this year!), there's something horribly wrong. I would NOT classify this as consistent 'non-calling'.

A lot of matches were really painful to watch and lasted WAY longer than they should have.

Congrats to both teams. You both worked hard to get there. Let the girls leave it on the court!!!!!!!

Truly. Let's just leave it at that.

I echo many of the comments and sentiments posted here: the officiating was a complete disgrace. I know what MC is talking about; Division II got roasted on Day 1 at Blackman with the officiating quality. "The Bomb" was in action there; I believe he was the GPS/HH referee. I still have a schedule of every official who worked on every match (how convenient), save for the last day (which was not pre-assigned), so I'll double check my memory later.

I felt it a great irony, at times, that the line judges should be the officials and the officials should be the line judges; indeed, "The Bomb" (complete with pea whistle) is only a second year official. Knowing where he's from, I'd wager that in the combined two years he's done volleyball, he's only done half of my 2006 season, if even.

It's really sad that the line judges, as a whole, had more credibility than the officials. Yes, you certainly want line judges who are credible, but they shouldn't have 90-95% (maybe 100%?) credibility, compared to 35-40% credibility for the officials. In an ideal situation, they are equally credible, in the 90-95% range.

I am sorry to report that each assigner/supervisor selects who to send from their "association". I really think that this should not be the case. If an official is not qualified, they simply shouldn't be there. TSSAA does not have anything to do with what officials are sent to the state tournament.

Granted, the advantage/disadvantage was really to no team, but how many critical points (and consequently, games/matches) were changed because of a no-call on a ball that was ROLLING UP THE ARM?!

It simply amazed me how sloppy the ballhandling got without any being called. I'm not talking ugly or somewhat questionable, I'm talking about balls rolling up the arm, MAJOR doubles, etc.

Did anyone else see the match where Father Ryan got called for 3 back-row blocks and 2 back-row attacks? No way the BRBs were correct, maybe one of the attacks was a good call. MAYBE.

I've been going to state for a long enough time to know that this is easily the worst overall crew to have been there in a very long time, perhaps ever.

That being said, I'm embarassed to be an official right now, especially since these are our "best" people.

I promise to never ever complain about the Refs here in middle TN again.

I'll hold you to it! I'm not commenting on the officiating until the tournament is over - probably a few days after. Really, though, what CAN I say?

Brentwood over South in 3, Franklin over Ooltewah in 4.

At 11:40 pm CST on the night before the Big Dance, the pre-tournament voting results are as follows:

AAA

Brentwood - 18, Collierville - 2, Farragut - 3, Franklin - 7, Houston - 0, Ooltewah - 3, Red Bank - 0, Sullivan South - 3

A/AA

Anderson County - 8, DCA - 3, Greenbrier - 6, JSS - 0, Knoxville Catholic - 4, Notre Dame - 12, Page - 2, USJ - 3

Division II

Baylor - 4, BGA - 4, Briarcrest - 2, Father Ryan - 19, GPS - 5, Harding - 2, Harpeth Hall - 0, SBA - 2

With that in mind, the favorites are:

Brentwood, Notre Dame, Father Ryan

A/AA is most contested, AAA next most contested, and Division II the least.

OLDTIMER, wouldn't it be GREAT to work with the GLJ one more time?

 

I think after the BORO saw me LINE JUDGE, they would start calling me THE GREAT BIG LINE JUDGE. Don't you?

Feel free to ask CoachT to change your name to TheGreatBigLineJudge. We'll call you GBLJ for short!

I believe CoachT has to approve pics before they're posted to gallery. I PMed him on your behalf; if you have problems again, feel free to e-mail me.

Blah, I have to say it. The number of officials brought in this year was reduced in an effort to (you guessed it) reduce expenses. Something tells me that we went to two sites to cut expenses yet again. Supposedly, the state tournament lost money in 2005 and Ronnie Carter was really up in arms about it. But, T$$AA has plenty of money in their capital reserves to take a hit of a couple grand; they also bring in megabucks come football time.

I've been told by a well-placed and highly reputable source that we are lucky to even get semi-finals this year. My source tells me that Carter had to be "begged and pleaded with" to give us what we got this year; that would translate to just the two #1 pool seeds playing for the state championship.

This tournament format is a disgrace. If TSSAA keeps mismanaging the post-season, next to nobody will show up in the the years to come.

They need to let real volleyball people run the tournament; real volleyball people know how to cater to volleyball needs and how to set a schedule that will allow for good attendance (and a good gate!).

This is so frustrating for me; I can't imagine how frustrating it is for the teams.

Here's one for thought - two officials in district 1-AAA are also teachers at one of the schools. Does anyone think it is a conflict of interest for them to call games for that school?

Per TSSAA regs, they are not supposed to be involved in those contests.

http://www.tssaa.org/Handbook/officials.pdf #7

Also, I can't say I was impressed with the officials in LSU vs. Tennessee. The signals weren't as crisp as they should be - I didn't like the 'touch' signal, the service beckon signal (supposed to be: whistle, slight pause, arm motion.. not: whistle as arm motion), etc. The line judges didn't sell me anything either. Oh well.

PF, you're hysterical!

A great place to eat is Chef Wang's on NW Broad. It's one of the best Chinese buffets around. Matter of fact, it's so good, I'll be getting my pre-tournament meal there on Tuesday.

I believe, in years past, they announced an all-tournament team after the state finals in each class.

Good fields across the board this year, but who/why will have the toughest rise to the top?

Ring 'em up and tell us why! It's always fun to see the results pre-tournament and how we, as a group, do at picking the winners. Enjoy!

I'd like to add on and say that at the higher quality levels of play, ballhandling is very good (and mistakes obvious) and it's "everything else" that you have to be watching out for.

GLJ, missing net violations could impact an outcome but surely (there I go assuming again) teams at the state have a pretty good handle on volleyball fundamentals (we had to earn our way to state) and don't commit those other type violations (it has to get pretty blatant for the average fan (me) to notice the out of rotations, back row attack (unless it was Partridge or Brock), substitution errors, etc., you mentioned in your previous post)) in abundance....at least not to the point of altering an outcome. (How's that for a run on sentence...I admit it, three years in 5th grade is embarassing). So, even if the referree misses those........no significant inherent advantage. (I believe improving that from the referee standpoint is in your bailiwick to wrestle with). Good luck......and after participating in Coacht since July you seem to be a good one for that task (hey, I said something nice).

Granted, PF, you are correct, you're generally not going to see many of the various violations I listed. But, let's say it's ND/KC in the state finals (an appealing scenario to you) and there's only a point or two difference between 'em. There won't be much back-row stuff. But what about those few times that that back-row setter decides to dump instead of set? Aren't those points going to be huge?

I'm not saying that all those violations are going to happen often or even at all. I'm just saying your official should know what those things are, so that at that critical juncture as described above, they can catch that back-row setter sneaking one over.

And I do appreciate your comment. You're alright in my book. :justwrestle:

Patsfan, you have a great sense of humor and a way with story-telling.

 

A foot over the line would be the down-ref's call. Line judges can't call that and the up-official is likely watching for other things.

Sounds like the umpire was asleep on the floor. Just sadly goes to show that just because you have "two" officials, "two" is sometimes not as good as "one" sharp official.

Quality, not quantity!!

Forget ballhandling standards for the moment. Forget the tight vs. loose argument or whatever. I'm talking about fundamental rules knowledge, folks. Net fouls. Back-row attack. Back-row block. Out-of-alignment. Who the setter is. Tracking the setter. Illegal substitutions. Illegal replacements. What constitutes these. How to keep an official score sheet. How to properly track libero. Over-the-net fouls. What's not legal. What situations they're legal in. Other stuff.

We'll discuss ballhandling after the fact.

I'm talking about true fundamental rules knowledge. An official who can't hold a discussion, at length, about what the above mentioned rules are (and how to apply them) shouldn't be allowed to set foot in so much as a DISTRICT match, let alone state. An official who can not make a snap decision about a situation and/or the application of a rule SHOULD NOT BE AT THE STATE TOURNAMENT.

I can't pass judgment, yet, on the officiating quality as a whole at the state tournament until I see it. This is one of the better across-the-board, balanced fields of tournament teams you'll find; it is sad to me that we can't round up the best officials out there. I don't care where they come from, I don't care if one part of the state is overrepresented and another part isn't represented at all, just send the BEST.

As if you can't tell, I'm a bit disgusted with the whole process. The closed book exam is a joke. This year, they changed it from a true "closed book" to a "Part II" exam, where it is now OPEN BOOK. No time limits. They encouraged officials to print the exam out, take it on paper and even look rules up if so desired, and come back online to fill in the answers. The emphasis was to be about "learning" and not so much to find knowledgable people. The Part II is what filters people out of consideration for post-season play. But the field is wide open for anyone who can open a rulebook and read now.

Isn't the Part II exam supposed to be about testing your understanding and application of a rule, not just if you can read the rulebook? Isn't this why we have the open-book exam for first time officials. It drives me nuts that theoretically, some bum who has "many years" of experience, but couldn't explain how to track a front row/back row setter to save his life, can now crack open the rule book, possibly get a 100, and be considered a "smarter" official than others who don't need to open a rule book to know they answered something correct.

"Knowing" the rules is great and all, but if you can't make a snap judgment call at 14-13 in game 5 and get it right, get out of the chair and get into the stands.

I'm done ranting before I say something I shouldn't. Thanks for letting me blow off some steam.

Considering that not even I have heard of most of the officials who are coming to state (save for one who I already know is rotten), you may be suprised, PF, at what gets through. Unless there's a suprise in the works, the players will be far and away better than at least a couple of the officials. What few names I recognize- two will be alright, one is a bomb, a couple aren't too hot, and the rest are wildcards. Only one of them is well-known: Tim King. Those of you from the mid-state know who he is and will be delighted to have him. I believe he'd be up to your standards, PF.

I hate to say all of this, but it's the truth.