Spree1024

Hope Cait and the others from AE are ok, and speedy recoveries.

I guess I just found some humor in the reference to the Sharks and to be wary of adults' advice.  You do a good job of replying to the other posts and I weigh in when I feel the urge.  I wasn't responding to anything particular, only weighing in on the debate of organizations, in this case, TN Flight, trying to recruit players to their organization.  I was actually agreeing with your main point of being cautious on these decisions, but part of the reason organizations like Showtime reach out to different areas of the state or to other teams is to form the stronger more competitive teams which you are in favor of.  Sometimes the girls and parents are receptive to the idea but the individual teams or programs are not working together.  I've always found it interesting that people think it's ok when someone from another team wants to come play on their team but if another team talks to their girls then they are dirty rotten scoundrels.  And before you reply, that is a general statement and not aimed at you.

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No problem, the reference of sharks was metaphoric, meaning things lurking underneath you without your knowledge waiting to devour you. As for not trusting adults, my neighbor played on a 15U team last year that had parent that tried to undermine and do everything possible to disrupt the team behind the coaches back all because their daughter didn’t play much. Whenever the coach was around they were all smiles and she's the greatest, but when she wasn’t they had very unkind and derogatory things to say about her.

I don’t agree with ‘Reaching out to get players’, instead why not just call the coach with the most competitive or established team tell them “I have 1, 2 or 3 players that could possibly help your team, would you interested in looking at them?” I believe this is a more cooperative effort and would result in a stronger team, I’m quite sure the coaches would respect this more than trying to recruit players off of their team.

You’re with the Memphis Elite program, and I’m quite sure that the Elite coaches would not appreciate it if the coaches and organizations from middle or east TN constantly called and approached ‘reached out to’ players and parents trying to befriend them and entice them to leave your teams and come over to their teams, with promises of the grass is greener over here, we'll give you a scholarship, we're bigger and we're better. This where the dirty rotten scoundrel label comes from. If a player/parent is truly unhappy and they are unable to resolve the issues with their current situation then they should leave on their on accord and look to join another team, this is fine it happens all the time. There is a difference between being recruited or ‘reached out to’ versus just choosing to leave.

Again, this is about representing the state of TN, if people would just work together and agree to put the best players on the best team with the best coaches and not ‘reach out’ to recruit players away from other teams to build their own teams and program.

Tnwareagle,

Your reflection of your daughters experience is exactly what it participation in youth sports should be. I'm sure your daughter and familys experience was a memorable and fufilling. Glad to hear the positives

robpride,

Your observation is very good, it's unfortunate that the adults egos are larger than the KIDS.

Not a broad statement just a known fact when dealing with people in any environment. Weather it be concerning your career, marriage, dating, education or sports. It all revolves around adults and people that may not have your best interest at heart.

Also, I don't mind the dialog but why do you consistently pick my post to respond to when there are several others here that are more than worthy of responses? I don't think my post was aimed at anyone, just friendly advice for robpride.

Not sure what your grass is greener statement is about but I hope it makes you feel better. If you'd read all my post they are about forming stronger more competitive teams through cooperation and putting aside differences.

darn matt!      or showtime        i was playing nice and ya had to throw down the gauntlet.....

i have never been able to take arogance very well

 

that little statement at the end of your post,was that really called for?

 

if you have something your feeling smug about lets hear it

grow up matt            your feeling pleased with youself because youve talked someone into leaving there team?

 

ya just dont get it               

 

ps :panther if you correct my spelling ill never talk to ya again.......lol

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robpride,

It’s unfortunate that organizations will to stoop whatever means necessary to form teams. One bit of advice, do not put any trust or faith into anyone or what they tell you especially when dealing with the adults that are involved with youth sports. The 'SHARKS' are out there everywhere, use extreme caution and be very careful of whom you choose to associate with. This is disheartening but its reality, from reading this web site your teams have had great success, try your best to keep that way. thumb

Eveyone is looking at this wrong, and you are forgetting the most important thing, THE KIDS...

Here's a thought instead of bashing each other, why not look at what it would take to develop stronger teams from TN for national level competition.

Showtime/TN Flight and Trotters coach,

Instead of trying to compete against KGC and recruit their players why not contact robpride to see if KGC would be interested in picking up any of the top players in Middle and East TN? Basically, KGC would become the Nike team of East/Middle TN. By reviewing their performance at state and nationals over the last few years KGC has a proven track record for developing the better players.

Starting new teams to recruit players and to facilitate teams splitting up only creates a lot of weaker teams. Put the BEST athletes on the BEST team, and let the other players develop on 'B' teams, Div.II or YBOA, in the end everyone will still get to play and develop at their own rate.

Let's focus on representing the State of TN, not arguing amoung ourselves about our individual programs and coaches. 'Divided we will fall, together we can stand tall'.

elitebball,

My comments are not directed towards you specifically, I'm hoping that others in TN can read this msg. board and begin to think about the possibilities that could exist for all ages groups and organizations throughtout the state of TN. Yes, most 9u - 14u do prefer toplay with friends and people they are comfortable with. From dealing with the soap operas of parents, uncles, aunts and a host of their other relatives and friends over the years myself it can be frustrating and challenging to get people to agree on things. But if this didn't exist where would all the fun be .

No problem here, just good dialog to keep people interested. thumb

You leave out one important element.  Every one of these girls and their parents is a unique situation and they will go to the situation where they feel they or their children will develop and enjoy the experience.  Of course competitive basketball means higher level competition and there is a reason why there is a scoreboard on the wall.  The higher level of play is an opportunity for the girls to improve.  I would bet if you questioned all of the girls and parents involved in AAU, asking  the main reason they are playing competitive basketball, the number one answer would not be to win as many games as we can and win a national.  Certainly it is the ultimate goal for a team.  But the commitment for AAU involves too much time and money to not consider all of the factors, not just winning.  Parents are not in most cases the problem as you describe.  They are your customers, and are the ones trying to do what is right for their child.  Yes, some are unrealistic and become part of the problem.  But most parents and children at the ages you describe are driven to play competitive basketball for more reasons than just winning.  I agree that your formula, if everyone buys into it, provides the best chance for powerhouse teams and nationals success.  As I said in my earlier post, it's great when you have the best girls all wanting to play on the same team with a goal of winning nationals, sacrificing perhaps starting roles on other teams to come off the bench for another.  But is that really what is best at that time for that player's advancement, and do they enjoy it, which are the most important factors for most kids and parents.  These all star teams seem to have a better chance of coming together when girls get to 15 and older and start getting attention from recruiters.  It is a noble goal for organizations to want the best on one team, but the reality is you're dealing with people, not pawns, and they will determine what is right for them.  You would no doubt do the same for your daughter as would I and anyone else.  If an organiztion, as it appears Fencor and Fairfax have done with these teams, can provide the right coach and support where the girls and parents buy into the main goal of winning a national, I am confident teams as you describe will be formed.

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Everyone is different and unique, that is why there are sports programs for everyone at every level. I am specifically talking about AAU Nationals and the level of skill, preparation, dedication and type of athlete it requires to compete at that event. I doubt if anyone that is serious about competing at the AAU level is not concerned about winning, Winning is a result the work ethic, effort and sacrifices made to achieve. You may not win but the progress it takes to win is where the value is. Winning is like ‘acing’ a final exam after a long 9 weeks of studying and writing term papers.

I disagree that parents are the customers, this will lead you to nothing but a disaster. You cannot coach to please parents, parents have to be willing to buy into YOUR system, if not they will need to find a system that appeases them. This will lead to the DARKSIDE of coaching, if you are making concessions for one player/parent then be prepared to be chastised after every game by all of your parents. You cannot put the desires of individuals and parents above the team. Now, if you are coaching a developmental team in a recreational league then this approach may apply, but in the COMPETITIVE arena this is really bad approach. It sounds like you are trying to play with a recreational approach in a highly competitive environment, believe me this will not work, you’ll end up with just a lot of frustration and disappointment in the end. Play where your players can compete and grow.

If it is a players true intention to develop their skills to the highest of their ability and contribute to the team, then coming off the bench is fine because they know and understand the big picture. Skilled and highly competitive players know that they are going to continually develop, play and contribute, they are not worrying about whatever the other factors are you are referring to. They are focused and know they’re advancing in skill level because they are playing and practicing with the best players and coaches every day. It’s when players/parents have their own agenda or focus on the other factors that causes the problems, these types of players/parents cannot be in a true team type environment. These types of players/parents need to be on a team where they can influence the game strategy, the coaches and other parents/players on the team to see things their way. Again, this approach does not work in a COMPETITIVE environment, just ask Kobe Bryant.

It’s not only noble but it’s a very realistic goal for any organization to have the best players on one team, they just need to weed out all of the distractions. There are parents that don’t want to see success because their player cannot be apart of it. People only allow themselves to become pawns because they let themselves be influenced by factors and others that have little or no knowledge of what’s required to compete at higher level competitive sports. They should seek out and listen to those who’s only interest or agenda is developing competitive athletes, not someone with a biased or self-serving interest. When a parent starts out with what’s best for my daughter, show them the door immediately.

I don't think the fairfax, fencor or the kenner coaches, players and parents buy into the main goal of winning nationals, a parent told me they focus solely on developing and teaching players the fundamentals, values, dedication and work ethics it takes to compete. Winning is just a result, not their goal.

You are missing the point of my post, to compete means you must develop. If there is no development you'll never be able to compete and/or win at any level, so I really don't understand your statements. Everyone develops at different times than others, some early, and some later.

Also, if a teams goal at Nationals is to not compete and not to win and they play against a team that's goal is to compete and to win, can you explain the outcome and the purpose of these two teams playing. I believe this defeats the whole purpose and spirit of the national championships.

Any competitive national level programs would disagree with your statements, competitive teams invite and look to develop players, not toss them aside. That is why they have 'A', 'B' and sometimes 'C' teams to develop players that may not be ready today, but have future potential. This format gives everyone an opportunity for success at their own rate and time. It's the parents who usually have the problems with this, not the players, and it's the parents who look for other places to play for their child. Both Fencor and Fairfax have developmental teams. This further facilitates team chemistry because each year they have a consistent core group and ADD to the team as needed or as players develop.

Role players are a myth, you need multiple players that can play, everyone cannot be a 'SUPER STAR' but they must have the skills and ability to compete. Fencor, Fairfax and Kenner all brought in players off their bench that could easily start for any other team at nationals, no role players there, just a team of girls and coaches that are not focused on 'winning', but know how to compete.

I'm not critcizing team pride, shelbyville or any other TN area, these are all fine programs, but it should be clearly obvious what is needed to compete at a National level, just look at the approach some of the other top level teams/programs use.

My thoughts;

Is AAU Nationals for COMPETITIVE basketball, or development for recreational and intramural basketball?

Is AAU Nationals about representing the state of TN at its best, or about parents and players using it to satisfy their individual agendas?

Any competent coach will tell you that 'winning' is not their primary focus. Winning is just a by-product of preparing and developing an athletic, fundamentally skilled and competitive team. 'Winning' at all cost is not the goal, it’s the hard work it takes to compete.

I saw the Fencor teams and Fairfax play, no team from TN was even close to their level of play. Although, Fencor didn't play their best game and had to come from behind to beat Team Pride. The TN teams would be able to compete for a national title they would consolidate their efforts versus being divided and making these types of post toward each other. If I'm not mistaken Pat Summit and Geno were at every Fencor and Fairfax game, wouldn't it be great if they made these types of efforts to come see a team or young players from TN?

People and parents have to put aside their differences and LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE.

I saw a post on the national AAU web site that stated that Fencor and Fairfax have had almost the same core roster since they were 10U. Can anyone name one team in TN that has done this? They have kept the BEST talented players on the BEST team with the best coaches. This why they are always at the top, they have parents, players and a community that keeps focused on what it takes to be a National Champion and compete at Nationals.

Arguing amoungst ourselves will never get any team from TN there, it will only result in further division.

ptguard,

It's a sad day when we, TN, advoate or condone forfieting games for any reason other than for an emergency. Regardless of what strategy other teams and coaches may use this is definitely not one. Is this what youth sports is really about?

The Tennessee Team Pride and Tennessee Lady Tigers were both in probably the two toughest pools in the entire tournament.  Both pools featured 2 State Champions (1 of whom was seeded from the year before), 1 State Runner-Up, and then the Tennessee team.  I was told that both teams played pitifully and with no heart, which would explain their double-digit losses.

 

I can't speak for the TN Lady Tigers but can speak for the TN Team Pride, our girls in each game played well most of the first half but somehow managed to self destruct before halftime, and coming out of half-time could not regroup and get themselves back into the game.  I can say they did not play pitiful or with no heart but played like they were coached.  You guys must remember that these young ladies are only 12/13, and the motivation for them to play to their potential must come from the coach.

 

I had the opportunity to see a lot of good teams and can say the TN Teams with the exception of the KGC Lady Pride all played the same way which I believe is why they did not fare well in the tournament.  When I say they all played the same, they did not play the aggressive defenses and they did a lot of standing when the ball hit the boards and did not go after loose balls.  From what I saw the teams that played aggressive defense and went after loose balls won.  In order for our teams to be more competitive we have to go back and start teaching the girls it's just as important to play good defense vs. being a scoring threat.

 

All I can say is next year, if you plan on winning at the nationals and being competitive, the coaches in TN better start playing a more aggressive type defense and learn how to handle the press, if not next year will be a repeat of this year.

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OK, dont' throw the baby out with the bath water. After reviewing the history of this age group on the AAU national web site, other than KGC none of this years 12U teams have ever made it out of state and some didn't make it out of sub-state. Just chalk this year up to the lack of experience these teams must have. KGC appears to have the same team members from when they were 9U, years of good highly competitive experience and lots depth there. From my own experience Nationals is not a place to go to see if you can compete. Your team must be well prepared beforehand with very good athletes, experienced coaching and non-disruptive, but highly supportive parents, ie..KGC

But on a positive note players, coaches and parents get to see high-level basketball at its best for their age and now have a goal to aspire to.

The 16U Fairfax Stars are the Potomac Valley Association Champions, which was this teams 1st ever association championship.  They upset Cardinal of Virginia in the Championship Game by 4 to take that title and the #8 seed in the National Tournament.  They rely a lot on balanced scoring (in many of their games, all players have scored) as there really isn't a huge star on this team.  Other notable victories include games over:  Boo Williams Red Tide, Maryland Team Excel, and the Michigan Spartans.

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ptguard12,

Thanks for the information. . . really helps.. .

Pitino,

You have to realize that most teams attend nationals for the experience, enjoyment and pageantry of being at a national level tournament, competing for a national championship title is secondary for some.

My expertise sort of drops off from 14U - 17U.  I do know a little about some of those teams, but i don't really have the time to sit down and do it now.  Give me a couple of days and I will see what I can do.

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ptguard,

Do you know anything about the 15U and 16U Potomac Valley teams? Specifically the Fairfax Stars?

Forgive me for asking, but why go all the way to Nationals and forfeit your games? Why not play?

ptguard12,

How do you get all this information, its really some good stuff on teams from TN and across the country. Will you have the same for the 14u - 16u teams? Specifically the 15u and 16u Potomac Valley teams.

Looking at the state finishes there could have been more teams from the SE/TN association, looks like a few teams have decided not to participate.

Good summary of the actual teams participating.

It looks like Cait had a great showing.  See the link below for full details.

 

http://www.usabasketball.com/women/2005/05...me10-story.html

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Thanks for the link. Is she still comitted to UT?

By reviewing the AAU website it appers SE/TN association will have more teams represented at Nationals in the 9u - 12u than any other association. Looks like the SRT format is working for getting more teams qualified. But it still appears the overall amount of teams in each age group is down a little.

Anyone know how Cait McMahon is doing at the USA Basketball Camp/Trials? It's good to see TN has been represented two consecutive years with top quality athletes.

Was this a tournament or a shootout type event were you play 3 - 4 games in your pool?

Philtenn,

Congrats on your championship..

Do you know the results of the 14U - 16U ages?

Anbody have a link to the ASA Nationals, game schedules and results?

The rosters for the state tournament are frozen from sub-state, you can change teams after your state tournament if your current team doesn't qualify or decides not to attend nationals. Also your current team will have to release your AAU card to the new team, you cannot be on two AAU team rosters.

How did the KAYA Stingers end up? I thought they would have contended for the state title.