Pantherbert

Ok plain and simple... Bartlett shouldnt have even played central and overton against millington. Both those teams lost so they should have been out... Now they get another shot to go to the state after losing regional champship.. What was the point of even playing the regional championships win or lose you play again to make it to the state. It should have been Millington and Central an automatic state trip. You say im whining or what ever but all im saying is it doesnt seem right to get a lose in post season and still get a 2nd chance...

Just adjust the state tournament to a Sweet 16 format and we all go.....there problem solved /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" />

I've sat here for several days and read all the posts and can see the points of both sides. While I do feel officials need to be held accountable, I don't know if this is the exact forum where it needs to be done. Criticize officials all you want, but there is a right place and time...during the game, on a message board or wherever...if you're a fan. I can also see the side of the official who is upset that a fellow official, albeit a football official is calling out basketball officials on a message board. Standing on the outside looking in, with a child who is a three-sport athlete, I believe the basketball officials have a harder job than any other sport. I can see and understand points concerning some officials who don't need to be working for whatever reasons...speed of the game, fitness level, whatever and I agree with all those points. But I just don't see the point in a fellow official calling out other officials, whatever their respective sports. In my career field, we are held accountable by the public, we are continually called out by people we deal with...but...we never sell each other out, minus breaking the law, no matter what we think about someone's ability. Had the poster calling officials out never mentioned being an official, would we be having these confrontations? I think not. Just my humble opinion. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

And I agree with the majority of that.

Only hang-up is if the gentleman doesn't identify himself as an official then all he'll get is the " Don't complain until you've done it " line. While I believe that to be a valid argument, it's the only response a fan will ever get and we wouldn't have gotten very far in this thread. It wouldn't be any different than having a coach point out things he/she sees wrong with what some coaches do. You're not calling out people, teams, or fans; just things that you think are wrong. However, as I stated earlier,IF you're going to do that and identify yourself as a coach, official, teacher, or whatever......you must be prepared to take the high road at all times......even if other posters won't. I'm not even attempting to take up anybody's side of the argument, I only believe that a person should be allowed to state their opinion and defend it if necessary.

Very very close battle reboundmaster?€¦?€¦.. very close?€¦?€¦ unfortunately this isn?€™t horse shoes so still not a victory?€¦.. /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> There is a lot to be said for having veteran tested players on both of these teams. Both teams fans were scattered on both sides of the gym but you would have sworn that the gym was packed. It was a fun fun / extremely competitive game to watch. EVERY possession meant something ?€“ from jump ball to the end. This game was truly state tournament atmosphere. I thought we were in the ?€œglass house?€??€¦..

 

As far as your last question rebound ?€“ I definitely have my thoughts and the inside track. But SURELY you don?€™t think I?€™m going to answer that! /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

Good luck to all who are in the sweet 16?€¦..

Good review DU, as always. The crowd was great ( even the radio crew knows that /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> )

The only other thing, to me, was the number of turnovers ( more so unforced ones in the 1st half when Millington struggled ). If this team take care of the basketball and plays with intensity they did up in Liberty then we'll have a chance at a very happy evening tomorrow night /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

This is a very special group of young ladies. No matter what tomorrow's game brings it has been a great honor and privilege as a basketball fan and Bartlett alum to follow this team and these seniors. The parental support has been awesome. It makes me proud to be a Panther.

Got my popcorn man............................................... /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" />

Being tactful is the wrong approach. If someone is an idiot it is vitally important that they be told exactly that. If we always worry about being politically correct then people still feel good about being an the idiot that drives the rest of us nuts.

Being tactful and being politically correct are not the same thing. Having tact is showing genuine class and respect while calling someone on their errors. Being politically correct is hollow wording presented out of fear in order to stay out of trouble in case someone does like what they're told.

It'll work more than it won't. At least then if it doesn't the precedent has been set that you have been a patient person and shown your concern/opinion sincerely and respectfully. Then you can most certainly get you dander up if need be. People aren't apt to listen to someone just because they huff and puff the loudest.

So does that work in other areas of life? Should teachers not say anything about those that are not good teachers? Should doctors not say anything about those that are not good doctors? Why can't officials hold other officials accountable? I understand that a lot of that should be handled behind closed doors, but someone needs to hold officials accountable and I see no better people to do that than fellow officials. I am not saying that I need to hold basketball officials accountable, because I am not one. However, the older, wiser basketball officials should hold the younger, green officials accountable. Again, just an opinion. Probably wrong again.

I think it's ok but if an official, teacher, doctor, etc is going to do so it must always be done tactfully.

Wow. Where to even start. Make officials more accountable, Grade them fairly and objectively, reward the good ones. You need to skip officiating and go all the way to being a supervisor!! We don?€™t get paid that much, the supervisors really don?€™t get paid that much so who is going to do all this evaluating??? This is not a full time job folks!! Maybe if you paid $150 bucks a game for a ticket it could be and you would get the dedication that you want out of it!!

 

The coaches know the game better than anybody?€¦.. Really??? Come on?€¦?€¦

 

I?€™m sorry I have to stick to my guns. I was one of the most belligerent people to officials prior to becoming one. With the experience I now have, I know how to be a better fan, parent, coach and just person in general.

 

It applies everywhere. Don?€™t gripe at your server at a restaurant until you have been one. Don?€™t get mad at your wife till you have done the laundry yourself. Don?€™t get mad at your kid?€™s teacher till you have taught yourself. When you get the experience you can make an educated decision as to whether the people you are criticizing are doing a good job or a bad job. And odds are after being in their shoes you will respond in a more respectful manner.

 

Or you could just be an idiot and none of this experience will matter. You will get on a message board and dog out the very people you once were?€¦.

 

I still think every fan should be required to take some kind of rules course prior to being admitted to a gym!! Sort of like a drivers license test! Take the course, pass the test you get to come to a game. At least then they will have an understanding of the rules?€¦..

 

One time fee of $150 for the course and then you just pay $3 bucks to get in! What a deal?€¦. I?€™ll teach?€¦.

I guess I can't get mad at women. I'm not prepared to go down that road.

OK which one of you guys got so worked up that you went out and head butted a referee last night!!!! HAHA!!! Dang ol Jeff Co. man!! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

Somebody did WHAT ????? /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

I'm sorry but the "If my opinion loses......" just made me laugh really loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is awesome!!!!! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

Thanks. I try /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

Craigmont is very, very good and that victory is nice feather to be placed in Liberty's cap. Like DM said, the Crusaders have to be good to have won in the manner they did. However, R-E is a better team than CHS. I'm not convinced they're more talented than Craigmont was but they are a better team and Coach Adams is one the best around. I don't expect a blowout, but I'll take R-E by 11

Does this mean we win??? It must have been the officials fault!! HAHA

I'm not trying to help prove or disprove anyone's opinion here. I'm just of the opinion that an official should be able to call bull if he/she sees it and not be chastised for not just falling in line. Now, that said if a person is going to identify themselves as an official ( as you have Reffin ) or as a coach then it needs to be understood that tact and a strong but respectful attitude must be taken ( as I believe you have )

( but yes, if my opinion loses I blame the officials on this thread /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> )

Dang it why do I have to have a real job and not able to set here all day and play with you guys!!

 

OK so I want to try this on for size?€¦.

 

I was approved to work the final four last night, work for unapproved website as a ?€œRules Analyst?€? did 6 NBA playoff games last year. I worked International Games for the Olympics and wrote this past years rule book?€¦?€¦

 

Those are all facts?€¦ Don?€™t question me?€¦. I said it online it must be the truth!!

 

Still think you are a liar.

Just curious but what would lead you to believe that ( Understanding : This is an honest question )

well obviously this person doesn't have a clue that he's bashing officials... however, let the state office or the supervisors know that we have an official degrading other officials and we will see how long he will be "approved" to work a state championship....

Why would you say things like that when you may have to work with them tomorrow night in a region final? or a sectional or the "approved" state tourney?

Interesting how we can get on a website and say what we want???

Here's the deal. If he had called any person out by name or by experience ( ie. the ref calling the whatever game on whatever night ) then I would 110% agree with you. However, saying that some officials shouldn't be calling games isn't degrading any one person nor the profession at large.

Just one outsider's opinion on the matter

There are people who are good and bad at any job. Coaches,teachers,butchers,bakers, and candle stick makers. There are people that, sadly enough, cheat at times for whatever reason.

I don't think an official should, or ever would, openly bash or call out fellow officials but at the same time I don't think an official should have to swallow the company line either.

In most cases when school in canceled so are all extra-curricular activities ( ie. practices, games, etc )

It would make some games more exciting in high school but Then the school with the best players would prob win 90% of the time. The coaching strategy would not play as great of a role in the outcome although there still would be stratigy involved just a different kind. In college and at all levels good players have made some coaches look really good and not having players have made good coaches look bad. If the same coach that went 2-20 one year and then 20-2 next year suddenly becomes a great coach. Alot of times its because he has better players. I do believe that teams with less talented players and good coaches would find it tough to compete at the high school level. Just my thoughts

With college basketball most players on a team were the best player on their respective high school teams. The collection of talent and level of play is greatly elevated.

Also, college coaches keep or lose their jobs on how well they recruit....something this isn't "supposed" to happen in high school basketball......................................................................

.................................

Definitely high school should have a shot clock, because when somebody's up in a 5-point game, they just waste the clock and the other team has no chance to come up.

I'm assuming by "waste the clock" you mean they move the ball around the perimeter and to the corners near half court. If you're in a tight contest, like a 5 point game, and are moving the ball around in that manner you had better be able to handle the ball ( and the pressure of the situation) which few teams, IMO, possess such a level of ball control especially under that circumstance.

A lot of times in this case a team may sit back in their 2-3 zone where forwards and center "hold down the fort" on the blocks and allow the guards to extend to force a 5 count. Even in this case, you're letting the other team have it. Think about what this team is telling you by taking this course of action. They're saying " I don't want to take the chance of taking a shot because we probably won't able to get a defensive stop"

Take it as a sign that you not only do you have a chance, you have a VERY good chance. They're aren't confident. So pressure them. Now, if the pressure isn't enough to force a turnover or they start slicing through your defense then put them on the line ( depending on your depth and current foul situation ). It's a gamble but if they can't hit their free throws then they won't be able to rely on a stall tactic.

If a team can old the ball on you then they are not a lesser team. You not that by pressure D!!! If yo pressure D dont work then that team is good!!!

Exactly Legend.

Wish more people understood that

Tell your coach to get Manassas on the schedule for next year!!!! It will be a fun one to watch!!!

I'll put a bug in his ear. He might like to actually

I agree with the OP on the fact that there needs to be a shot clock in high school basketball. There are just too many ways a lesser team can hijack a game playing the Four Corners. It really makes what should be a faster paced sport unwatchable.

 

35 second shot clock would be optimal IMO.

If that's the case then is the other team really lesser ?

you are right! they did get better.

 

I told you that they would still be a bottom team in that district you also told me they wouldnt this year.

That's because I believed they really wouldn't be. It was the Millington series that did it in. Split with Cordova, Bolton, and Arlington ( and a last second shot from a sweep)

Now, being ahead of both Cordova and Bolton would be 3rd place. I don't believe I was quite that over enthusiastic /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

you the same guy who told me Bartlett was going to finish ahead of Cordova & Bolton this year!!! lol!!

I never said that. I said don't just assume that Bartlett couldn't. I wouldn't have been surprised honestly but you have to grow.

To go from a 4 win season to 10 is not bad at all. Even more so given the youth. It's only getting better.

Yea but some coaches just dont know what to do about stall ball(or are ignorant) cause I was at a USN vs. SAS game in the Regions for DII-A and SAS was down by 5 in the 3rd quarter,they were playing the 2-3, and USN had the ball but yet the coach told them to stay in the 2-3. And they lost by like 10 after USN scored with 1 min. left in the quarter and SAS couldnt score. I asked the players wat was up and they said "if they wasnt gunna play offense we werent gunna guard em"...WAT!!?? I guess he was trying to prove a point??? Or maybe its just horrible coaching.

I just don't get that. They could at the very least attempt a match-up 2-3 ( or attack 1-3-1)

While we're at the task of changing rules we should change the foul limit from 5 to 6 in order to prepare players for the NBA

I could go for some pizza right now /hungry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hungry:" border="0" alt="hungry.gif" />

sorry, back to the topic...............................

Jvaughn first I coach, go to NBA games, college games, NCAA tournaments, two or so high school games a week so I have seen it first hand more than once in my lifetime. Secondly in my playing days I saw it work against my school on a first hand basis and we used it and it didnt work. I truly understand when you up by 4 or 5 points you dont go down the court and jack up 3's...you're against it and I'm for it. Also from your earlier post I do enjoy winning and believe me I've won more games running and attacking than holding the ball stalling.....

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you..........................................................

Sometimes it's important for folks to remember that being deliberate on offense does not equal stalling the ball. And maybe on that note I haven't been clear. I'm not in favor of stalling the ball. It's just that the solution is already there.

But all in all it doesnt matter to me whether there is a shot clock or not. Just SOMETHING that prohibits teams from holding the ball for 3-5 min.( and the number for me would be 4, 2 times in the postseason) or just something that makes it REALLY hard for them to hold it that long. Cause I guess if they work there butts off to hold the ball for that long then they should be rewarded.

Agreed and that solution is play defense. If they're holding the ball then it stands to reason they don't believe they can beat you any other way. Either they won't be able to handle you're pressure or you won't be able to stop their penetration.

The better team will emerge.