DougS

these players have put in the work to be ranked with others their age.  The challenge becomes when the 6ft, 7th grader does not grow another inch.  Now as a high school player, they go from being the tallest and most talented on the court to being just another good player.

this is why any basketball player should work on ball handling and mid-range shooting more than working on post moves or 3-pt shooting.  the same saying goes today as it was years ago....  15ft jumper is worth 15 million dollars

If the ball is tipped or blocked then it's not running into or roughing. I would not suggest plowing through a kicker that is in the process of kicking or has kicked the ball unless you've tipped or blocked the ball first or unless the kicker is running around with the ball in his hands.

with the rugby style punters becoming more popular, what is rule about hitting the punter when he starts his "run" to punt, 

kwc’s BGIM Week 9 selections

 

Thursday, October 15

 

1) Hamilton vs Sheffield at Crump

2) Munford vs Overton at Southwind

3) East vs Millington at Melrose

 

Friday, October 16

 

4) MUS at Briarcrest

5) St. Benedict at CBHS

6) Harding Academy at Northpoint Christian

7) ECS at Lausanne

8) USJ at Fayette Academy

9) BTW vs Carver at Crump

10) Covington at Fayette Ware

11) Melrose at Bolivar

12) Bolton at Kirby

13) Brighton vs Wooddale at Halle

14) Central at Southwind

Just in case folks didnt see other post, game 6 - Harding vs Northpoint is at Harding Academy

The above is revised per bglass' statement above.

Harding vs Northpoint game is at Harding and can be heard on Sports56 AM 560

i guess coaching depends on the super stars on the other side of the net.  Coaching is strategy, making small adjustments and maybe an actual set play when you need a point.  If the other players got out of the way, who set her the ball?

If the superstar hits every position and there are players on the other side of the net that can block and dig, she may hit 45%.  If the players on the other side have some talent and are coached, they can make it hard for the superstar to get the ball, especially when her teammates just get out of the way...

I have issues with what I highlighted above. So, I'm going to come to the defense of these small schools in Memphis because no one else will and the majority of the people who read these posts who deal with these small schools from Memphis may or may not view things from the same colored glasses to which you view them.

 

The men that coach these teams are heros in my book. The young men that make up those teams have far more grit and determination them most folks. Plain and simple.

 

It's easy to disparage the effort and fortitude that goes into what these men do. I can tell from your perspective that you think that little to no effort goes into what these men do. I on the other hand do not. They face gargantuan odds with little to no budget ... dealing with young men who have little to no support from classmates or parents and are closer to ending up being a statistic then being a high school graduate in a lot of cases. Yet, and still, they come back every week, after being ridiculed and castigated by everybody, trying to win a game when the odds are stacked so far against them, most folks would quit.

 

I doubt that anyone that has anything to do with any of those programs will read what I'm typing. That's not the point.

 

Those coaches and those young men BUST THEIR BUTTS everyday just to field a team. If they win a game ... that's monumental, to say the least.

 

It's real easy to throw stones and to piously denegrate another man's effort ... or what is deemed as 'lack of effort' from afar.

 

I don't think that most of the people who are reading this could do what these people do ... not consistently. Most if not all would quit.

 

I'm going to take a different approach. I'm going to give these men a great big kudos ... keep up the good work.

 

Yet in still ... you seem to think they are being rewarded for getting a playoff game.

 

S ... M ... H

yep, what he said...

Doug I along with others have asked similar questions before. He will tell you that he uses an algorithm that incorporates strength of schedule and other factors not just record. However I don't think common sense is factored in.

unless you lose 3 times to a college team, a 3 loss DII-A high school team is never better than a 1 loss BGA or a 1 loss Davidson Academy

how can a 3 loss Lausanne be rated ahead of a 1 loss BGA, DA or USJ.  And how is FRA (7-0) behind Harding (6-1)?

use this link.  Select Division II

http://tssaa.org/schools/classification/

So far in the two games I have attended the officiating has been horrible. Plus, they seem to huddle after every flag like they don't know what to do. And this is an observation I'm seeing against both teams. Who are these guys? Anyone else seeing the same ?

even in the NFL, at least 2 or 3 huddle on a penalty unless it is offside or procedure...

i assume this is only for AA

need-based does not necessarily mean low income.  Debt ratio is also part of the consideration.  rent, credit cards, cell phone, cable, etc does not factor in.  if a family makes 45,000 a year and lives in an apartment, car is paid off and does not have any debt other than rent, credit cards, etc. , they may not qualify for any need assistance.  if a family makes 100,000 and has a 2500 month mortgage, 2 car payments = 1000, they may actually qualify for assistance.

You do understand that no money is actually received;  no check is written then signed back over to the school. most schools have endowments where the "assistance" comes from.  

most schools give out very little need assistance and the vast majority of the assistance goes to non athletes.  The Arts department students get more than football and basketball students.

Thanks Roy, your right on the money. In today's times you have to deal with the media as part of your job and if you can't then you are not qualified for the job. Like I said in an earlier comment, what if a couple of teams didn't show up for the SEC Media Event and said it took to much time. That would go over like a t^^^ in a punch bowl. The same thing here regarding this magazine that covers 85% of the teams in Tennessee while the other 15% want to be hard heads. The very first thing people think when they see the name of the team and (no survey) is what a joke, how did they hire a clown like that to be the coach.

we all have our own opinions.  I just happen to disagree with yours.  comparing not filling out a team survey of a high school football to the SEC media day is a little far fetched.  As full disclaimer, I have not seen this magazine in Memphis and have never read it but i will look for it the next time I go to Wal-Mart, Kroger or Target.  If you can provide me a store where i can buy it, i will.  I looked at the website and there are no stored listed in Memphis area with the closest being Jackson.

I believe that only those with a vested interest, either friendship, investor or ego, think coaches are clowns for not filling out a survey about their team.

changing subjects just a little....

Maybe one of their grad asst coaches may look at it.  Has jones or saban ever publicly or privately said they have read this book?    

Film or live games is what coaches look at.  They make "listen" to the recommendations from a highly touted high school coach, but to to think a SEC head coach reads a book composed of comments from high school coaches who may or may not ever played college football or from the player's parents is hard to believe.

Actually read it, parent informed a journalist about it.

it was in the article the other day.  i looked for it but cant find it.  it was from one of the links on CoachT's home page.  Funny how the bank just added the exact amount to the account.  I need to use that bank.

Anyone who thought the split would happen hasn't been paying attention to how the T$$AA operates. They will not allow it to happen strictly due to self preservation from a monetary standpoint. Level playing field and listening to the opinions of the vast majority of constituents is of zero concern to Mr Childress and his cronies. This has been much ado about nothing bc it was never going to happen, but now the organization can further the status quo by saying that they looked into the split thoroughly and voted on it. What a joke! Give the 5A & 6A schools a dose of this mess for a few years and see what happens. The small publics are playing for 2nd in most of the big sports now. I see quotes from a number of representatives of private schools, but none from the few that are causing the uproar. Any word from CPA? They must be too busy scouring the national aau circuit to find their next out of state stud to bring in for hoops to comment.

From the posts ad nauseam about unfair actions, CPA is the most cited.  Good reasons or sour grapes, it does not really matter; its always about unfair advantages.  However, there are more ways to level the playing field than just barring private schools to DI and banishing them to DII.  

Removing the grey areas in some of the rules and writing them in black and white is a better way to start than just banishing all 25 schools because of the actions of a few (< 10).  And the most important part of the rules will be ENFORCING them.  TSSAA has the chance of tweaking the rules and then enforcing them.  If they fail to enforce them, shame on them and a full and out-right boycott of all member schools would be necessary.

For me, comments attributed to Childress have been very disappointing throughout the entire process since he frames them in a way that does not take proper responsibility and deflects from the real issue.  Not hard to see through at all.  Statements like "need facts, can't act on unsubstantiated statements from anonymous sources" like that is the only type of information the TSSAA has received and then stating "last 8 proven recruiting violations were by public schools" only displays how unwilling and out of touch the organization and its leader are in dealing with it.

 very good ...

Putting 25 schools ahead of the other 350.

i thought the complaint was the 25 had an unfair advantage.  I think changing the rules to "take away" the unfair advantages should satisfy the complaint.  And also may stop the public schools from getting caught in recruiting violations as well.

The TSSAA will now look at an urban and rural classification proposal. I would be careful in talking about advantage in this argument. A urban or city school will always have some advantages over a rural school simply based on population density. Which is why they are looking at dividing up based on that. However one thing no one talks about is for the D1 privates the challenge that exists in an urban area. In a rural school most of the time you are not going to have to worry about losing your players to a bigger private school or bigger public school. If you don't think public schools in urban areas aren't atrracting athletes or recruiting your crazy. This is what high school athletics has moved towards like it or not it is what it is.

Magnet schools in urban areas can select their students and kids go for free. Many in Nashville are always powers in basketball. Open zone schools need I say more. Also as middle tennessee grows and more schools are built the talent gets diluted. Look what happened to Riverdale when Ruth co. Exploded. Used to Franklin and Brentwood were it in will co and now schools are popping up everywhere. Milan or a closed zone school gets to keep their kids and develop them in a feeder system. Those are some advantages and disadvantages.

What I look at is the level of competitiveness no school is just completely dominating everyone week in and week out. Also so many people base their opinions on this year or recent history. A few years ago CPA was an average football program. Goodpasture a few years ago was competing for state titles recently they have struggled. Lipscomb has remained consistent but hasn't competed for a state title in football in a few years. NCS used to be a small program and they are growing but still haven't won a title. Hillsboro the most successful school in metro has been essentially open zone.

 

Some schools are just going to be good at certain sports based on their community, tradition, or coaching. Regardless of what class. Coaching and admin support is a big part of success and like it or not some schools don't have the support they need to compete and win. It's not the private or open Zoned schools keeping them from being successful. I think the TSSAA will do a great job of leveling the playing field and hopefully this argument will die.

 

Lastly TN has always had quality teams winning championships and this is a credit to both public and privates alike. Splitting the teams would diminish that reputation.

they are going to tweak the rules on financial aid to siblings, work study for students and jobs for family members.  Then, if schools want to continue as they do now, they will have to move to DII.  If they want to stay in DI, they will change their school policy on such things.

I am curious to see the new rules on recruiting.  

And if some folks were in charge, I guess i could not wear my private school shirt when i go watch my friend's 6th grader play public school basketball because I would be recruiting.  I do not remember who wrote this and do not really want to troll past posts in other boards, so if you feel me wearing a t-shirt is recruiting, sorry to offend you.  Just remember,  you cant wear your school's shirt when you go watch another school play either. 

I don't care about recruiting. Schools like Lipscomb, CPA and Knoxville Catholic don't need to recruit to attract students to their academic and athletic missions.

 

I care about the declining sense of competition, which exists in an inverse relationship with our athletic leaders' sense of entitlement. "We can't beat them. They're winning at a disproportionate rate. Rather than raising our own standards, let's refuse to play them and kick them out of our league." That's a poor lesson to teach the kids who are developing athletically, mentally and morally under their care.

+100

i am glad she chose Illi for academics as much as she chose for bball.  She is a very nice, smart young lady.  Much continued success to her.

Tim Harris - Memphis Catholic - Green Bay Packers

just read the article on home page.  some info fro the Tennis coach in AL.

http://www.timesdaily.com/sports/high_school/brooks/unfair-advantage-public-vs-private-debate-rages-on/article_9dce82a3-29bd-570e-b98b-2637cc79fc39.html

"

No one can build a consensus on this issue because there are so many factors that affect parity in high school athletics. I believe the primary factor that determines the success or failure of a high school athletic program or sport is the commitment of the community. Particularly in football, it takes a lot of money and resources to build a successful program. (The number and quality of coaches, as well as how much time they are allowed to commit to coaching, is directly related to how much the school is willing or able to pay. Facilities, equipment, and overall support of an athletic department are expensive.) Some private schools commit huge resources to athletics, and some don't. Some public schools commit huge resources to athletics, and some don't.

 

All of the recruiting rules, financial aide rules, zoning rules, and transfer rules have tried to address this disparity, but they cannot.

 

Recruiting: Blatant recruiting is probably not good for high school sports, and should be discouraged. But, everybody recruits. Players talk, parents talk, boosters talk, coaches and administrators get involve. Difficult to prove, and darned near impossible to enforce. T$$AA should investigate it more aggressively and pop the schools and coaches caught, but it is what it is.

 

Financial Aide: Most private schools (and the churches and alumni that support them) offer financial aide to some degree or another. To promote diversity and fulfill their mission, they have to do this and should be allowed to do it. Since athletes (by T$$AA rule) cannot receive financial aide in DI, a number of private schools have devised methods to circumvent the financial aide rules. Again, this is hard to prove, and it would take a forensic accounting analysis of the school, the church, and private family bank records to enforce the rule. That ain't gonna happen. The T$$AA has even flatly stated that it does not have the legal resources to take on the Catholic church. Perhaps all schools that offer financial aide, whether to athletes or not, should be in a separate division.

 

Zoning: School zoning is a local issue. It is impossible for the T$$AA to address all of the local variations in zoning rules. Most zoning rules are propagated to facilitate a school district's primary function (education) and to facilitate the allocation of limited resources. Do some communities use zoning rules to facilitate their athletic programs? Yes, but there realistically isn't anything the T$$AA can do to correct this disparity. It gets back to a community's support or lack of support for athletics. I don't believe the T$$AA should or could do anything to try to address disparities in zoning rules or school demographics (rural vs urban).

 

Transfers: All high school athletic associations have lengthy and convoluted transfer rules. I believe most of these rules are written as an indirect way of trying to cut down on recruiting and to stop overly zealous parents from doing stupid things. However, overly zealous parents will do stupid things, and will even lie and cheat if they have to. I suspect more student athletes have been hindered or hurt by transfer rules than have been helped, and I doubt these rules have affected recruiting very much. If a student is enrolled in a particular school by the local school board, he/she should be eligible to play sports.

 

This all just my two cents worth of what I think the T$$AA should do:

Try to police recruiting as much as possible.

Separate schools that offer financial aide (whether to athletes or not) and drop the multiplier.

Leave zoning issues to the local communities.

Do away with transfer rules. If student is enrolled, then he/she is eligible.

 

I think that is the most the T$$AA can do to provide a level playing field. It will then be up to each individual school, booster organization, alumni organization, church, city, county, and school district to determine how important athletics is to their overall mission.

 

The private schools with the financial resources to offer any financial aide (not just athletes) presumably have the financial resources to build athletic programs and compete against other schools with similar financial resources if they choose. Small privates without those financial resources can compete with the poor public schools. Public schools with huge community support (Maryville, Greeneville, Alcoa, Union City) will still have an advantage, but other public schools will be able to compete with them if they can generate sufficient local community support.

Very Good Post    

Your argument about Mitchell is very valid and I agree with you. Places like Mitchell pulling from the areas they can pull from and bring kids in is a little differnent than small, rural open zone cpunties like the one we are in. That's the point I was trying to make the other day about our "open zone" policy. Those athletes Mitchell is bringing in on buses and the few kids that might live in Jasper and get driven to SP by a parent and vice versa is like comparing apples and oranges.

the buses that bring the athletes to Mitchell only go in a very defined route that covers specific streets.  And the specific streets are not defined by the athlete that lives on it.  The students that live outside the zoned streets for Mitchell get to school the same way students get to SP:  driven to school by someone other than the yellow school buses.

I just can't agree that schools like SP and Marion have the same advantage of private schools. Our county is open zone, but the buses only run in their respective zones. Sure, SP and Marion can draw some kids from 8-10 miles away sometime in this small, rural county but most privates draw from a 25-30 mile radius around a big city like Chattanooga, Nashville, Knoxville, Jackson, Memphis, etc. There is a big difference in those two instances of pulling kids.

And buses in Memphis only run for the specific school they are assigned.  If students whats to go to Arlington and lives in Whitehaven, the student must provide transportation.  That's about 25 miles.  A bus is not driving from Arlington to Whitehaven to pick up students no matter what kind of athlete the student is.

The principle at each school has the final decision on whether a student from out of their zone can attend.  And, Yes, athletic ability does have influence on the decision but from the principles I know, they are more concerned with over-crowding and their graduation rates than winning State.