SummaryJudgment

If they go to the four year cycle I don't think it harms them. In a two year cycle they'd play one year of JV only and then move to a varsity schedule with juniors and sophomores. Next year is year two of the current cycle. BC would just need to find some schools willing to add an extra JV game on to the schedule. This is what happened to Independence. I think Ravenwood as well. So it would be no different whether it's a two or four year cycle. They will be playing a full varsity schedule in their second year regardless. 

It looks like they will catch a break and not have to play a varsity schedule in the first year. I remember when Summit opened with just freshmen and sophomores they were at the start of the two year cycle. They were put in the district with Giles County, Lewis County, etc. It was brutal. IIRC Independence opened in the middle of the cycle and got to ease into football with a JV schedule only the first year. 

This will also affect Spring Hill HS in two years sending them back down to 4A or maybe even 3A for a bit. The re-zoning for BCHS is going to take a big bite out of their population. 

Page beat Siegel in three: 19, 16, & 22

Here are the committed athletes from the top 2 clubs in middle Tennessee. It's not complete as there are other clubs with players that are probably moving on to the next level. But this will be the majority.

https://alliancevbc.com/page/1045/committed_athletes.html

https://www.tennesseeperformance.com/page/show/5935949-committed-athletes

Hillsboro with the nice win

Where can I find the brackets? I've been trying to find them on the TSSAA website. But honestly that is one of the least user friendly websites I have ever been on. 

Page will be an interesting team to watch. They already had talent at S, L, & MB. Now it appears that they have a talented OH who moved into the school from out of state. 

2 hours ago, Osage said:

This got dark.

So you are saying that the Puppetmaster (Wizard) is suggesting kids skip high school seasons and train with TPV instead, but she is not officially (or at least publicly) affiliated with the club?

LOL! Sorry. Didn't mean to make it dark. Yes, the person is not officially affiliated with TPV. But people have the impression that the person is a TPV representative. 

3 minutes ago, Osage said:

 

@SummaryJudgment ... you have confused me. You say that you know who is making kids skip their high school seasons in order to train with TPV, and that this person isn't a TPV person. This makes no sense to me. Who has that kind of influence on these kids and their families?

In the one case I know about (and summarized above), the conversation was initiated by TPV. 

 

I’m being very careful here Osage. You can be associated with a club but not under their direct control. In fact it can be the reverse. A person can appear to be a representative of a club but the relationship is not what it seems. Suffice it to say, Teeter is correct. TPV is being neutral in this. They are neither advocating for or against the idea. They are not out to undermine HS volleyball in this area. But they are also not going to undermine the relationship they have with the Wizard behind the curtain. 

9 minutes ago, TeeterTot said:

I am not familiar with the first part of your statement but I can vouch that TPV is not endorsing this move.  TPV wont turn girls away who ask for more training plus they are a firm believer in high school volleyball in the area.

That's my point Teeter. It's not TPV or anyone paid by TPV who is pressuring girls into giving up HS ball to train.

This very unfortunate development of training instead of playing HS is being driven by one individual not controlled by TPV. That's all I will say.

But as my volleyball player said when I told her about this, HS ball is the reason she didn't give up the sport and the opportunities at the next level. That's where she had the most fun. She said the pressure of open club combined with training instead of being with her HS friends/ teammates would have burned her out. She loved the memories of post season play and the accolades that aren't given in a training facility. And as said above, she also mentioned that she actually got better playing against the best in Wilco and that it would not have happened had she skipped real live volleyball to do training instead. 

Ahhh. My mistake. Had heard proms and graduations had ended their season. 

The Alliance 181s have completed their schedule. Season is over. 

7 hours ago, Osage said:

  

That's where the clubs need to step up: they need to assign quality coaches to the younger teams. If I ran a club (I don't, which is probably clear), the top coach would always coach the top 14's team. Coaches with lots of experience, who think a lot of themselves and their abilities...  they shouldn't be spending all their time with the older kids who are already mostly who and what they are going to be as players. That's easy, and it's lazy. They'll make a bigger impact doing the hard work with younger kids. 

I agree 100% and I think this is the first year in a long time that Alliance got it right. Amber is an amazing coach and the way she handles athletes is perfect for this age group. Dan runs that TPV 141s team. He is top notch. It will be interesting to see how this age group progresses over the next for years with the quality coaching they are getting this club season.

VBD I have to chime in here. You clearly don’t like TPV and are doing your best to convince people to steer clear of that club. Maybe you’re on the Alliance Board. Maybe you’re an Alliance coach. But this talk of corruption and compromised amateurism is too much. Girls volleyball is far removed from the world of big time men’s basketball. Outside of parents, some overzealous, there is no worry that the FBI is going to be raiding Gothic Court because the pressure to recruit the best high school players is leading to illegal activity. The interest is just not at the same level. And whatever both clubs are doing or not doing are well within the rules.  I know both Directors and both are beyond reproach.  

I’ve been around since Impact and Select formed an “Alliance.”  Saw Nashville One die and Club West rise as a temporary challenger. What is happening is nothing more than the continued evolution of club volleyball in middle Tennessee. I, for one, hope that TPV sticks and Alliance continues to rise to the challenge. (As they have as evidenced by their recent emphasis on highlighting their players on and off the court accomplishments.) Because the real winners are the players and their parents when the competition between clubs is real. I would rather Nashville have two plus viable clubs similar to Louisville, Cincinnati, Indianapolis etc than what we’ve experienced the past half decade. Talk about a sense of entitlement! There was no reason to worry or truly work to get better because there wasn’t a serious challenger to get the top players.   

There are a myriad of reasons beyond waived dues why some top players have or will defect. If it works out as I hope it will, both clubs will be fine and there will be a rise in the level of play throughout middle Tennessee because the opportunities to train and compete at the highest levels will double. Everyone wins in that scenario. 

This is a really good thread. I agree with a lot of the points made. I think Dickson County will make it to state this year over a second Wilco school. I thought Indy was going to challenge this season. But the injury to AC really hurt the team. As noted elsewhere, the injuries at Ravenwood have made it a difficult year for them to get on track. I think another issue affecting the district is setting. The district lost four setters to college ball from last year. With all due respect to the replacements this year, the inconsistency, inexperience, and unlikeliness that most of them will also set at the next level is causing these wild swings and unexpected results in my opinion.

35 minutes ago, Osage said:

SJ, we have 2 very different views on all this. The "nonsense" I was talking about was the idea that Alliance wanted to return to the Southern Power League this season, but were denied by those running that circuit. Maybe I am inferring too much, but I think you are saying that not only is that false, but further the denial is attributable to the (now former) Club Director. Do I have that right? If not, please correct me.

If so, I stand by my statement, that it's silly to think that anyone associated with Alliance (parents, coaches, players, admin) enjoyed their experience in the Power league and were pining to return to it. If Alliance is permitted to return next year (and does), I will know I had this totally wrong. As an aside, it might not be the worst decision for Alliance to schedule against TPV more often, to give itself more opportunities to show how far apart the clubs really are in competitiveness. Joining the Power League would do that.

As to the strength of the field in the Sweet Tea event, again, new management had nothing to do with this. These tournaments are planned months in advance. It was billed from the outset as a top-heavy, Open-level event. The field was available in AES even before this club season. Most of all, Alliance wasn't even the host; A5 was.

We do agree that more events of this level are good, long-term, for Tennessee volleyball and for Southern volleyball as a whole.

Buried in one of these threads (maybe this one) is a comment I made that everyone at Alliance was tired of playing the same clubs/ teams over and over. I think I mentioned Choo Choo by name. I am not going to go back and find it. But I am 99% sure I said it. So yes, I agree with you. And so yes, you are inferring too much. That's probably more on me as I was trying to impart as much as possible in few words as possible. A kind of read between the lines thing. What I was being intentionally inartful about is that while Alliance wanted out, the other league members weren't too upset because of the negative relationship with the former director. I don't think Alliance would have been welcomed back even if they had wanted to continue in the SPL. Which as you and I have both correctly stated, they didn't want to continue. That's all I am saying. There were a lot of fractured relationships. Would the league have survived if an equal or better replacement had been found? I don't know, I don't care, and it was highly unlikely any club of note was going to step in and save the SPL. I think it was a case of everyone chopping off their noses to spite their faces. Honestly, I think it's for the best anyway. Power leagues are overrated. 

As for the STS; it wasn't listed on the initial Mizuno/ Molten schedules. Forgive me for not going back and re-checking. And A5 may have been the host, but it's still the first time I can remember the aforementioned clubs coming to Nashville. If that was in place before the director switch, then you win. But I think that we are going to see these types of tournaments more frequently here because of the new director. Even if they have to be held at the Ag Center.

I completely agree with you that these events are good for the health of volleyball in Tennessee and the south.

Club things I am curious about going forward: What will Ethos and Club West look like next year? How will the housing situation affect the number of teams at Alliance? Will TPV be able to hold on to their better players or will this be like 2014 when a lot of quality CW girls switched to Alliance. And what is the future of club ball in east Tennessee? (it seems like Tri-Cities and Chattanooga have fallen off the map)

Lastly, looking forward to watching some quality volleyball in Orlando.

Instead of responding to each post, I'll just put all my thoughts here. Lots of good stuff above.

In my experience the volleyball world is all relative and the perspective of each parent regardless of the club can change week to week. I think the reason TPV is traveling less next year is because they will be able to host more tournaments at A Game....assuming they are in the building. If memory serves me right, I think they only had one home tournament. Alliance had many more. It could be a reversal of fortunes with the two clubs in regards to travel next year. No one knows for sure at this point. But the TPV parents I've spoken to are thrilled with not being on the road to tourneys and/ or out of town scrimmages so much next season.

That was quite a coup for Alliance and the new director pulling in all those great ones teams/ Clubs that had not been to Franklin before. This is somewhat indirect proof of what was labeled nonsense above. Relationships matter and not toying with seeding, standings, etc. helps get you invited back to the party year after year. Or gets people to come to your party. Alliance is clearly in great hands now and the future is very bright. I just hope they have a new home soon.

I find it interesting that two separate posters have labeled either the 13s or the 14s as the weakest group in middle TN, I think it's too early to tell. We've all seen those 3s and 4s players in these younger ages shoot up to ones teams and college opportunities. The girls at these young ages develop so differently. Two of the most awkward 7th graders I ever saw were Logan and Avri. They're obviously special talents, but there are many more like them who didn't seem to be much as middle schoolers and are now college bound.

I understand it's fun to play who beat who as a way of determining which club has the better players. I do it myself. But again, it's all relative and volleyball is so weird. It even happens within the same club. A few years ago I saw the Alliance 152s beat the 161s right after the 162s has just beaten the 151s with Logan, Tori,  and Andrea. Those twos teams had some players who were ones players the next year; and there is always an extra motivation when playing the chosen ones in the club. But I didn't take it for anything more than it was. It all sorts itself out and anything can happen match to match. Same goes for matches between clubs. That's volleyball. As for who is better, I'd say TPV in the 13s, split in the 14s, Alliance in the 15-18s. Pretty much a no-duh I know. I do hope we get to see the two clubs play each other more in the coming seasons.

Lastly, I think volleyball in middle TN is definitely on the upswing. I agree with the words above that the coaching depth has to catch up. But I have seen some great strides in the past few weeks. I had the opportunity to watch TPV scrimmage Southern Performance a few weeks ago. I mainly watched the combined 17s/18s. I was surprised at the growth since the beginning of the year. They more than held their own against SP who had three D1 commits on the court. And watching the Alliance teams yesterday was a treat. I was impressed not only with the quality but with the fight they had. It was fun watching the usual suspects (no Logan though....she's moved on to her college career). But two Alliance players who caught my eye; the setter on the 172s and the libero on the 162s. Lots of quality depth in the older age groups at Alliance. I believe Ann and Dan are setting the bar high for Mid TN volleyball. The next few years should be fun and interesting.

7 minutes ago, TeeterTot said:

And Alliance got out of that league for that precise reason......I'm pretty sure TPV was the ones organizing and promoting it.

Actually no. Alliance was kicked out due to directorial issues. TPV is not organizing anything. They joined the SAVL in order to guarantee some quality competition to play against. The problem is the top clubs in the SAVL don't send their top teams to those power league tournaments. Again, why it will be interesting to see what they do next year.

19 hours ago, clifford20 said:

I do agree that Alliance is way behind KIVA and Munciana, however I don't think they are behind K2 top to bottom.  K2 is not at the M'ana or KIVA level either.   K2 and Alliance 15's beat Munciana-both in 2 sets fairly easy.  I would have loved to see K2 and Alliance 15's play.  Alliance beat them badly last year.  Alliance 15 lost to Kiva red 23 and 22.   It was a good match.   I do like K2's club a lot.   I always come away being impressed with their athletes.  It's impressive what they have built.

 

Top alliance teams just can't complete with top 20-30 teams consistently.  Just too many holes in their line ups.  The overall skill of their athletes just isn't there.  

 

Speaking of the 18's alliance team.   I heard that Logan will be enrolling at Texas this summer and graduating early.  Big news for the 2-3 other teams in the state that actually have a chance at beating them in AAA.  They will still win the state easily IMO. 

I think things are going to improve drastically at Alliance with Ann running the show now. She's doing a masterful job with that 181s team as well.

Speaking of that Alliance 181s team....They won gold in the National division at USAV. Logan was the tournament MVP. Garrett and Tori were named to the all tournament team. Good to see Garrett back and playing well.

18 hours ago, TeeterTot said:

She is enrolling early.  Brentwood will still start 6 D1 future players, just not the top high school player in the country next year.

I had heard it was going to be after the fall; didn't realize it was this summer. Wow.

19 hours ago, TeeterTot said:

I talked to 3-4 parents that left Alliance for TPV and they are not happy with the program.  With the exception of this tournament and Bluegrass, TPV plays the same teams over and over again in tournaments.  TPV 13's (who are supposedly their strongest age group) took 3 long sets to beat a weak Alliance 13 team.  Outside on the 13 age group, TPV had only 1 win in the Open division.

The Alliance 18-1 went to USAV Junior National Championships in Anaheim this past weekend and won the Gold Championship.

Overall, Alliance has the better talent and teams in mid-Tenn but as Camper said, they currently struggle in National tournaments with the exception on this 18's this past weekend.    

 

That was the TPV 132 team that beat the Alliance 131s in three. And while I agree that I've heard some rumblings about having to play the same teams over and over, Alliance did the same thing a few years back when they were in the Power League. I heard lots of complaints then about playing Choo Choo and Southern Performance over and over. What will be interesting is to see if TPV tries something different next year.

The Alliance 131s went undefeated and won their division two weekends ago. The 132s finished 6th out of 9 teams. The 141s finished second and the 142s third out of 15 teams. It is hard to compare apples to apples here. The Alliance teams faced essentially all the teams in their age group from Alliance, Union and Tsunami... with a another club or two sprinkled in the14s. Basically a bunch of 2s, 3s, and 4s teams.

Meanwhile the K2 tourney that TPV participated in was all 1s teams from a much greater variety of clubs. In fact, TPV was the only club to enter two teams in the 13s and 14s from what I could tell. We will see how it goes as Alliance faces greater competition down the road. But unless they play each other; which is highly unlikely, we probably won't really ever know.

I honestly think it went about as expected with the 15-17s. But TPV should be very encouraged that their 131s finished 2nd and 132s finished 4th. That's the strength of their club right now with the mass exodus of Alliance girls who bolted in that age division. Both their 14 teams made it to gold. Sounds like a pretty good opening to me.

These recent posts are good stuff. Glad to see some activity. A few random responsive thoughts.

Being a legitimate ones player is definitely in the eyes of the parents. It's my understanding that the spreading out of talent in the 13s and 14s at TPV is to give the girls the chance to grow as players as their bodies mature. The knock on Alliance has been that once a ones player in 12-13s; the greater likelihood you will be a ones at 17-18. At least there is movement within age divisions and the chance to make the ones team later at TPV. I think the reason Alliance does so poorly in the older age groups is that the players have never had to overcome adversity and failure when younger. They don't know how to fight and compete.

Before we bash TPV's schedule let's not forget that Alliance is not even two years removed from that disaster that was the SPL. Those four "tournaments" kept the girls from being exposed to a lot of college coaches. Beating up on Choo Choo , Ethos, etc did nothing to help the girls. I believe it's why the current group of college freshmen and high school seniors are so under-committed. They weren't properly exposed and critical times thus forcing a lot of really good players to take D2 offers or D1 walk-on offers at in-state programs. TPV is putting most of their ones teams in open at Bluegrass and is also going to JVA World and AAUs in Orlando. They have the SP network to help promote them. The power league they are in is a lot more competitive and organized than the SPL ever was. I think for year one of a Club it's a better than expected schedule.

Lastly, the parents I have talked to at TPV are thrilled with what's been going on. Conversely, there are older Alliance girls jumping ship to other clubs in the past few weeks. Clearly Alliance is concerned based on the pre-tryout letters that were sent to the AVC families, the over-done and never- before- done self promotion of their coaches and athletes, and the letter that was sent this week to the AVC families. If the Alliance product is so good, then TPV will never be anything more than Ethos or Club West. But I think this is going to be more of a MAVA/ KIVA situation. If that happens, then volleyball in Nashville wins with two big clubs fighting to get better each and every year.