When to blow the whistle ?

[CHAMPDDS]

Just an observation, during the CCS-Signal Mt game last night (Which eventually went to PKs)the ref blew the current period over twice when the ball was in mid flight on 2 corner kicks, and then a 3rd time time during a free kick, while the ball was in flight towards the goal...Maybe I am wrong, but I always thought the ref would usually blow the whistle differently, perhaps giving a small stoppage amount of time to allow the ball to 'settle', if you will...not when the ball is about to be headed into the goal potentially...I really think it threw off both teams to hear the whistle blow right as the ball entered the box in the air...I believe I overheard a parent say he heard this was a new recommendation to simply call the period (half/game) over at an exact moment ?

 

Enlighten me..

 

D

Edited October 20, 2010 by CHAMPDDS

[BigG]

Just an observation, during the CCS-Signal Mt game last night (Which eventually went to PKs)the ref blew the current period over twice when the ball was in mid flight on 2 corner kicks, and then a 3rd time time during a free kick, while the ball was in flight towards the goal...Maybe I am wrong, but I always thought the ref would usually blow the whistle differently, perhaps giving a small stoppage amount of time to allow the ball to 'settle', if you will...not when the ball is about to be headed into the goal potentially...I really think it threw off both teams to hear the whistle blow right as the ball entered the box in the air...I believe I overheard a parent say he heard this was a new recommendation to simply call the period (half/game) over at an exact moment ?

 

Enlighten me..

 

D

If I remember correctly, there is no "stoppage time" in high school soccer. While some refs let the flow of the game go, officially, they don't have to. With stopping the clock on goals, at half time, and with cards or injuries (which the ref signals with crossed arms over their heads) the game is 80 minutes. Period. Ask Alcoa vs. CCS in the state quarters 2 years ago. Ball was a foot from the goal line when the buzzer rang. No goal (even though it crossed after the buzzer).

 

That's how a ref explained it to me a few years back.

[Rabble Rouser]

If I remember correctly, there is no "stoppage time" in high school soccer. While some refs let the flow of the game go, officially, they don't have to. With stopping the clock on goals, at half time, and with cards or injuries (which the ref signals with crossed arms over their heads) the game is 80 minutes. Period. Ask Alcoa vs. CCS in the state quarters 2 years ago. Ball was a foot from the goal line when the buzzer rang. No goal (even though it crossed after the buzzer).

 

That's how a ref explained it to me a few years back.

I wondered when you'd bring this up Champs. Very weird thing and what are the chances it wouldn't happen as it did three times.

 

Also, someone should inform the rest of the officials about this no stoppage thing cause it has occurred in just about every high school game I've watched. Just saying.

[Stoat]

If the referee is keeping the time on the field, the amount of added time is fairly discretionary.

 

Time is added for substitutions, assessment of injuries, removal of injured players, wasting time and any other cause.

 

Normally a few extra seconds would be found to allow plays as described in the OP to be completed.

 

Where the clock is kept on the scoreboard, when the horn sounds, time is up.

 

Hope this helps.

[CHAMPDDS]

If the referee is keeping the time on the field, the amount of added time is fairly discretionary.

 

Time is added for substitutions, assessment of injuries, removal of injured players, wasting time and any other cause.

 

Normally a few extra seconds would be found to allow plays as described in the OP to be completed.

 

Where the clock is kept on the scoreboard, when the horn sounds, time is up.

 

Hope this helps.

 

And that is what myself and others at the game are accustomed to, but it seemed the timing was a little strange last night-three times, as there were three potential goal scoring opportunities (2 for CCS (free kick and corner, and 1 very good one for Signal Mountain(a corner where the ball actually was deflected at the post and back into play, right at the same time the whistle blew))...My thought was that what I am used to was a whistle at a non-immediate scoring time, and not right as a player is about to possible head the ball in...

 

 

D

Edited October 20, 2010 by CHAMPDDS

[ref2coach]

And that is what myself and others at the game are accustomed to, but it seemed the timing was a little strange last night-three times, as there were three potential goal scoring opportunities (2 for CCS (free kick and corner, and 1 very good one for Signal Mountain(a corner where the ball actually was deflected at the post and back into play, right at the same time the whistle blew))...My thought was that what I am used to was a whistle at a non-immediate scoring time, and not right as a player is about to possible head the ball in...

 

 

D

 

TSSAA adheres to NFHS rules. TSSAA has communicated to all referee supervisors in TN that all post season matches are to follow NFHS timing rules. If visible score board clock is available, it shall be the official timing devise. When visible clock not available, +/or no competent clock operator, then the referee shall keep the time on the field. The referee shall announce when 1 minute remains and shall accurately signal when the actual time expires. The timing devise is to be stopped and started per NFHS rules and additional time past the 80 minutes shall not be added.

 

Now for the philosophy question. Why should the defenders have to defend even 1 second past the 80 minutes of a legal contest? In post season matches if the score is tied we have overtime for the offense to score. Why should they be allowed "extra" non "legal" time to tie or win a game?

[CHAMPDDS]

TSSAA adheres to NFHS rules. TSSAA has communicated to all referee supervisors in TN that all post season matches are to follow NFHS timing rules. If visible score board clock is available, it shall be the official timing devise. When visible clock not available, +/or no competent clock operator, then the referee shall keep the time on the field. The referee shall announce when 1 minute remains and shall accurately signal when the actual time expires. The timing devise is to be stopped and started per NFHS rules and additional time past the 80 minutes shall not be added.

 

Now for the philosophy question. Why should the defenders have to defend even 1 second past the 80 minutes of a legal contest? In post season matches if the score is tied we have overtime for the offense to score. Why should they be allowed "extra" non "legal" time to tie or win a game?

 

Make sense now from what I observed....(no clock at the SM field, and it was a post-season game)

 

Thanks

 

D

Edited October 20, 2010 by CHAMPDDS

[smeagle1]

Make sense now from what I observed....(no clock at the SM field, and it was a post-season game)

 

Thanks

 

D

 

Well I agree it is clear. However, there isn’t a chance that’s what he was going off of last night. He actually waited for the kicks to occur before blowing the whistle. I assume the whistle should have blown sometime before each kick. What are the chances you would have 2 corners and a free kick in midflight when time expired. They all had chances to go in but my guess is if he were following the NFHS rules as stated above none of them should have even taken place. Of course I wasn’t surprised by this since the guy made some terrible calls and missed a tremendous amount of obvious ones, for both sides.

 

Also I have to say this guy shouldn’t ever ref another game. He has some anger issues and they showed a couple of times. They especially showed when two girls got arm locked and were a little physical with each other in front of the stands. When he came running over and grabbed the SM girl and slung her around did you notice the anger on his face. I’m sure something will be said/sent to the TSSAA about him grabbing one of the players like he did. Hopefully CCS won’t have to deal with him again this year as having him once was enough for any team to have to endure.

 

Fortunately the girls fought hard on both sides and the spectators were treated to plenty of bonus time.

[Rabble Rouser]

Well I agree it is clear. However, there isn’t a chance that’s what he was going off of last night. He actually waited for the kicks to occur before blowing the whistle. I assume the whistle should have blown sometime before each kick. What are the chances you would have 2 corners and a free kick in midflight when time expired. They all had chances to go in but my guess is if he were following the NFHS rules as stated above none of them should have even taken place. Of course I wasn’t surprised by this since the guy made some terrible calls and missed a tremendous amount of obvious ones, for both sides.

 

Also I have to say this guy shouldn’t ever ref another game. He has some anger issues and they showed a couple of times. They especially showed when two girls got arm locked and were a little physical with each other in front of the stands. When he came running over and grabbed the SM girl and slung her around did you notice the anger on his face. I’m sure something will be said/sent to the TSSAA about him grabbing one of the players like he did. Hopefully CCS won’t have to deal with him again this year as having him once was enough for any team to have to endure.

 

Fortunately the girls fought hard on both sides and the spectators were treated to plenty of bonus time.

smeagle, according to my super-secret, but well-informed sources, you are partially correct. I believe he might have confused two sets of rules, but the net effect would have been the same. Per high school rules, play should have stopped when time ran out, which would have been prior to the kick. He blew the whistle as soon as play restarted each time.

As for the calls, as an impartial observer, I thought he called the game the way one would expect a playoff game to be called and honestly to SM's advantage. I believe he had determined, as he should have, prior to the game that he was going to let the girls decide the outcome. SM is a physical team. He let it go. He also could have easily sent some girls off, and that would not have let the girls determine the outcome, Another ref might have, could have called a ton of fouls and that would not have been good. While there was a lot of contact on both sides, he let play continue and called the egregious, non-soccer fouls for both sides, I thought. I've seen him do other games and this was consistent with his "philosophy."

It was a very entertaining game and both teams played with a lot of passion. Tough loss for SM no doubt, but CCS should be congratulated for dealing with the game as it was played.

[95GSoccer]

Just an observation, during the CCS-Signal Mt game last night (Which eventually went to PKs)the ref blew the current period over twice when the ball was in mid flight on 2 corner kicks, and then a 3rd time time during a free kick, while the ball was in flight towards the goal...Maybe I am wrong, but I always thought the ref would usually blow the whistle differently, perhaps giving a small stoppage amount of time to allow the ball to 'settle', if you will...not when the ball is about to be headed into the goal potentially...I really think it threw off both teams to hear the whistle blow right as the ball entered the box in the air...I believe I overheard a parent say he heard this was a new recommendation to simply call the period (half/game) over at an exact moment ?

 

Enlighten me..

 

D

 

 

Soccer is not like basketball, where there is 'continuation' while the ball is in the air.

 

Neither a corner kick, nor a direct kick, nor even a normal shot headed into an open goal has any 'rule-book' entry to allow it to continue if time expires before it gets there.

 

In soccer, even if a corner kick is awarded, and time runs out before the kicker kicks it; time is out...the kick will never be taken.

 

NFHS laws (TSSAA H.S. soccer's governing body) are much more strict with time-keeping than USSF/FIFA rules (travel soccer's governing body) are (which give the ref flexibility to 'add' extra time).

 

The only time where stoppage time is given to extend time to allow a kick, is if a PK is awarded, and then time runs out. The laws allow for the PK to be taken. (and technically that isn't really an extension either, because when a PK is whistled, the clock is stopped immediately, and the clock doesn't run during a PK...so no time really needs to be added. It's just that the clock cannot 'run-out' once a PK has been called and the clock (with time left) is stopped.

 

Many referees, if they are keeping the official time, might allow a ball in the air headed to the goal to continue, for the 'spirit of the game'; but by the letter of the law, they are not required to do so. (like in other sports) If the scoreboard is the official time, then it becomes an decision by the ref of whether or not the ball crossed the plane or not prior to the buzzer, since the ref cannot delay the buzzer's sounding.

Edited October 21, 2010 by 95GSoccer

[Rabble Rouser]

Soccer is not like basketball, where there is 'continuation' while the ball is in the air.

 

Neither a corner kick, nor a direct kick, nor even a normal shot headed into an open goal has any 'rule-book' entry to allow it to continue if time expires before it gets there.

 

In soccer, even if a corner kick is awarded, and time runs out before the kicker kicks it; time is out...the kick will never be taken.

 

NFHS laws (TSSAA H.S. soccer's governing body) are much more strict with time-keeping than USSF/FIFA rules (travel soccer's governing body) are (which give the ref flexibility to 'add' extra time).

 

The only time where stoppage time is given to extend time to allow a kick, is if a PK is awarded, and then time runs out. The laws allow for the PK to be taken. (and technically that isn't really an extension either, because when a PK is whistled, the clock is stopped immediately, and the clock doesn't run during a PK...so no time really needs to be added. It's just that the clock cannot 'run-out' once a PK has been called and the clock (with time left) is stopped.

 

Many referees, if they are keeping the official time, might allow a ball in the air headed to the goal to continue, for the 'spirit of the game'; but by the letter of the law, they are not required to do so. (like in other sports) If the scoreboard is the official time, then it becomes an decision by the ref of whether or not the ball crossed the plane or not prior to the buzzer, since the ref cannot delay the buzzer's sounding.

Now we know, but I think Champs main point still holds. Very few of us had ever seen it called this way. But, no two soccer games are called the same are they?

[socref1]

Now we know, but I think Champs main point still holds. Very few of us had ever seen it called this way. But, no two soccer games are called the same are they?

I have refrained from replying to this thread because it seems what ever I say regarding refereeing invites controversy. I am encouraged that people are having the discussion because it shows interest in what would appear an inconsistent approach. This last sentence of RRs post intrigued me. No two soccer games are called the same way? I thought all soccer was called to be fair and unbiased and in accordance with the LOTG. That is similar. Approaches can be different. Now the texture or outcome of no two games are identical, nor are referees I will grant you that. However, let us also remember that HS soccer is a brand of soccer not like FIFA soccer, where the referee might have some discretion to add time for injury, subs etc as per Law 5. From NFHS, there is no provision like the FIFA Law 5 power to add time. For HS, if the ball is in the air, and time is out, time is out. It is an easier sell though to have the time keeper run the clock and have the buzzer go off while the ball is in flight. At college matches, they may count down the last 10 seconds.