ghouse

Since you asked, I just sent you a nice long e-mail on DII thoughts. you are the man for dealing with all this!

Assuming McCallie keeps their line-up the same as they used as Soddy Daisy then you have some of their kids penciled in at the wrong spot. Looks like you probably used the weights they are ranked at. Dendy was at 145 and Walliser was at 132. Pretty sure their 220 is actually Roberts and Robinson was at 182.

Any chance that brackets will be posted anywhere?

Pummelking, The tournament is a middle school / youth tournament... I don't think we have ever seen a girl's division at that level because there just aren't enough numbers to support separating them out. We usually do have a few girl's wrestlers at the tournament and I already know of one or two from out-of-state that are coming in. Heck, last year we had a very tough girl who gave a TNAAU state runner-up a good battle and beat all the other boys in the bracket if memory serves me. Thanks, Garrett

Just bumping this up as the tournament approaches and we are beginning to see some of the registrations trickle in. Hoping to see some more of the TN kids come down to Memphis to compliment the out-of-state kids we will have.

Just bumping this up as the tournament approaches and we are beginning to see some of the registrations trickle in. Hoping to see some more of the TN kids come down to Memphis to compliment the out-of-state kids we will have.

My take... I think Fargo is still the bigger event of the two. To me, it is one of the few formal national championships. Super 32 at its core is still a pre-season tournament. Fargo is the culmination to the end of a full freestyle and Greco season and also the general "switch" from one year to the next. At the national level winning the Super 32 is still a huge deal and is treated as such by the national media. However, I think even they keep in mind that it is a pre-season event, though it is certainly the preeminent event of the bunch. One thing the Super 32 has going for it is that there is one age division for high school competitors while Fargo is split in two. That does help with some of the prestige / match-ups although I prefer the split for Fargo because of what it is designed to be. Of course, I think in the long run that any event takes on the importance which we give it.

I couldn't agree more with this statement... like most things in life it comes down to your goals. There are very few kids (because let's remember that is what they are) that can train at a high level year-round and not burn-out on any sport, let alone one as physically and mentally demanding as wrestling. Of course there are some that can. They are the exceptions. Then there are also some that think they can but a few years down the road in college don't accomplish what many thought they would. One of the primary drivers there is burnout... even with kids that continue they may not commit at the level they previously had. Kids could attend both events and try to peak for both but many who attend both will look to peak for one and then just attend the other and see what happens. Yet again there is another subset that may only attend one. Each parent, coach, wrestler, etc. must make the decision on what is right for them, their child, their team, etc. and hopefully relate it to their long-term goals. I could talk a lot about this but I won't since I tend to kill threads with long posts anyway.

Hamm, I am pretty sure that you are't the one doing the DII rankings but whoever is should just not even bother posting what they have up until the make an attempt at adjusting the weights. Even if they guess wrong on where some kids are moving, to essentially leave everyone at the same weight from last year (yes a few moved already) and just put them in order of state results is a bit of a waste. Hard to really call those a ranking. Yes I know I am no longer contributing to the DII rankings so I should probably keep my opinion to myself, but that was never MO! I still keep a pretty detailed approach to the DII rankings but I can't put the time into it to feel comfortable posting it.

Pound for Pound is always such an interesting discussion. There are a lot of variables that come into play and it really boils down to opinion to split the differences. I often refrain from posting if I think what I have to say could come across as negative and be perceived as an attack on a kid. I am going to break that rule here a little because I know exactly how this will come across but I am going to do it anyway. Statement There is no way I would have Nick Boykin as the #1 P4P in the state. Before you kill me I am a big fan of Nick and what he did at Fargo was unprecedented for the state of TN and it is rarely done by a wrestler from any state. It is something that we should celebrate tremendously and he deserves all of the credit in the world for what he accomplished. That said, we need to keep it in perspective. Logic to why I say this 1) I think the main reason some people have Nick at #1 is because he is being given a ton of credit for winning both styles in Fargo... something that he should get tons of credit for. However, we need to keep the accomplishments in perspective of the big picture. Nick won Fargo (huge accomplishment, again can't emphasize that enough) at Cadet heavyweight. In my opinion, that is one of the least relevant weights and ages when it comes to summer wrestling (and there are few bigger proponents of freestyle or Greco in the state than me). There are a couple of factors at play here... 1) many of the top upperweights (regardless of age division) are in football and not wrestling at that time, 2) there is a huge gap between heavyweight at the Cadet level and the Junior level. Experienced wrestling fans / coaches understand that the techniques at the upper-weights are different than lighter-weights but also recognize that strength and strength ratio play a bigger factor at the upper-weights. The strength levels increase drastically when you move from Cadet to Junior levels and that gap is magnified even more at heavyweight. Put plainly, many top-level colleges aren't going to seriously consider an upper-weight recruit based on his success at the Cadet level until he backs those results up at the Junior level and shows they can handle the continued maturity, even more so at the upper-weights. Once again, in my opinion, there are only a couple of weights that I think are less relevant on the national scale than Cadet heavyweight... Junior 106 and Junior 113. Most Cadet heavyweights would struggle mightily at the Junior level because of the age / strength gap. Similarly Junior 106 and 113 are often easier / less deep than the same weight at the Cadet level. Primarily because there aren't as many Junior age kids making those weights which brings down the overall talent pool. I have watched quality wrestling not place going 0-2 or 2-2 at the Cadet level in those weights and then bump up to the Junior age division the next day and make the podium. Similarly, when Nick was wrestling up in age on TN's JR duals team he took several losses in both styles. Just another example of the gap in age divisions there. Once again, not really a criticism of Nick but using it to prove my point. Nick was there representing the state and undoubtedly that experience helped prepare him for his run at the Cadet level in Fargo. 2) I am not arguing for Sammy Evans to be ahead of Nick but as someone else mentioned before Nick won Fargo they would have been widely considered in the same level by most people in the state of TN with a lot of folks maybe leaning towards Sammy being better. That is just a good example of how heavily weighted Nick's Fargo run is in most folks mind. Much to my point in #1 above, Sammy showed that making the transition from Cadet heavyweight (where he placed last year) to Junior heavyweight is a very tough jump (also not a knock on Sammy). 3) Nick doesn't have a large national-level background at the high school level to draw on other than his Fargo run (once again a huge accomplishment). 4) We do have a couple of wrestlers in the state with prolonged results at the national level who have shown they can place at the national level at various age levels. These wrestlers have also done it in the mid to lighter weights which in general are a little deeper than the upper-weights. Not saying an upper-weight wrestler can't be better pound for pound but they probably need a lengthier resume. 5) Nick is also still young (going into his Junior year) and if there were close arguments I might lean towards the older wrestlers with a larger national level resume. Wrap-up Consider it all constructive criticism and just one person's perspective on it. Major kudo's to Hamm for having the balls to put it out there as it should certainly stir some conversation (reference this novel length post) . I am no longer contributing to the rankings so I should probably just keep my mouth shut !

All, We are happy to invite you down to Memphis, TN for our 8th annual Mayhem in Memphis tournament on Saturday November 14th. Each year we have been lucky to see the number of high-level (national place winning) wrestlers continue to increase... we expect the same again this year. The previous two years we were just shy of 300 wrestlers, but our numbers were down a bit last year. The good news is that several clubs who couldn't attend last year are slated to be back this year and we are expecting our numbers to be back up to previous levels or above. Regardless of numbers we still had great competition with 6 states represented last year: Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, and Texas. We plan to continue our tradition of running a strong tournament that flows smoothly and offers competition for wrestlers of every level. The brackets will be split into beginner and advanced groups where numbers allow. This allows your newer wrestlers to get quality mat time at the right level and your more experienced wrestlers to get mat time against other quality competition. This tournament provides a great warm-up for the upper-level wrestlers headed to the Tulsa Kick-Off the next week. All registration will be handled via TrackWrestling. Full details are in the flyer text included below. Don't hesitate to call or write with any questions. We look forward to seeing you on the mat soon. 2015 8th Annual Mayhem in Memphis Youth Wrestling Tournament Saturday, November 14, 2015 Christian Brothers High School 5900 Walnut Grove Road Memphis, TN 38120 Entry Fee: $15.00 per wrestler. Deadline: 8PM CST Thursday, November 12, 2015. Late registration is $25.00 per wrestler. Coaches and wrestlers must have a current USAW Card. Additional division registration $10.00 per wrestler, please contact tournament director concerning these registrations. Registration: Online at TrackWrestling as Mayhem in Memphis VIII (direct link below) http://unapproved website/registration/BasicPreReg1.jsp?tournamentGroupId=193005009 For difficulties with online registration send email to wavewrestlingclub@gmail.com; please include wrestler’s name, DOB, club name, USAW Card #, division(s), weight(s) and last year’s record if available. Format: We will attempt to separate beginner and advanced brackets to optimize competition where possible USA Wrestling 2016 Age Divisions and Weights (September 1, 2015 to August 31, 2016) Double Elimination with Round Robin brackets with less than 6 wrestlers Bantam, Intermediate and Novice 1-1-1 (30-second overtime period) Schoolboy and Cadet 2-1-1 (30-second overtime period) Two certified coaches’ maximum in each competitor’s corner *Ages and weights may be combined (with coach approval) where numbers necessitate Schedule: First Session – Pre- Bantam, Bantam and Novice wrestling will begin at 9AM Second Session – Intermediate, Schoolboy, and Cadet wrestling will begin at 2PM Weigh-Ins: 1) Friday 6PM to 8PM (All Wrestlers) 2) Saturday 7AM to 8AM (First Session Wrestlers Have Priority) 3) Saturday Noon to 1PM (Second Session). Wrestlers must weigh-in and make weight; there is a $10.00 Bracket Change Fee for wrestlers who do not make registered weight. Weight changes can be made up to close of registration. Skin Screen: Athletes must submit to a skin disease screening prior to weigh-in. The chief medical officer has full authority without appeal in determining the eligibility of an athlete to compete. Awards: Medals 1st through 4th (bracket for Champions) and OW awards for each division. Overall Team award for team with most team points scored. Championship and Consolation Championship matches conclude each session. Admissions: $5.00 Adults, $3.00 Students/Children, $10.00 Family For more Information, contact the Tournament Director Garrett House wavewrestlingclub@gmail.com (901) 289-3795

All, We are happy to invite you down to Memphis, TN for our 8th annual Mayhem in Memphis tournament on Saturday November 14th. Each year we have been lucky to see the number of high-level (national place winning) wrestlers continue to increase... we expect the same again this year. The previous two years we were just shy of 300 wrestlers, but our numbers were down a bit last year. The good news is that several clubs who couldn't attend last year are slated to be back this year and we are expecting our numbers to be back up to previous levels or above. Regardless of numbers we still had great competition with 6 states represented last year: Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, and Texas. We plan to continue our tradition of running a strong tournament that flows smoothly and offers competition for wrestlers of every level. The brackets will be split into beginner and advanced groups where numbers allow. This allows your newer wrestlers to get quality mat time at the right level and your more experienced wrestlers to get mat time against other quality competition. This tournament provides a great warm-up for the upper-level wrestlers headed to the Tulsa Kick-Off the next week. All registration will be handled via TrackWrestling. Full details are in the flyer text included below. Don't hesitate to call or write with any questions. We look forward to seeing you on the mat soon. 2015 8th Annual Mayhem in Memphis Youth Wrestling Tournament Saturday, November 14, 2015 Christian Brothers High School 5900 Walnut Grove Road Memphis, TN 38120 Entry Fee: $15.00 per wrestler. Deadline: 8PM CST Thursday, November 12, 2015. Late registration is $25.00 per wrestler. Coaches and wrestlers must have a current USAW Card. Additional division registration $10.00 per wrestler, please contact tournament director concerning these registrations. Registration: Online at TrackWrestling as Mayhem in Memphis VIII (direct link below) http://unapproved website/registration/BasicPreReg1.jsp?tournamentGroupId=193005009 For difficulties with online registration send email to wavewrestlingclub@gmail.com; please include wrestler’s name, DOB, club name, USAW Card #, division(s), weight(s) and last year’s record if available. Format: We will attempt to separate beginner and advanced brackets to optimize competition where possible USA Wrestling 2016 Age Divisions and Weights (September 1, 2015 to August 31, 2016) Double Elimination with Round Robin brackets with less than 6 wrestlers Bantam, Intermediate and Novice 1-1-1 (30-second overtime period) Schoolboy and Cadet 2-1-1 (30-second overtime period) Two certified coaches’ maximum in each competitor’s corner *Ages and weights may be combined (with coach approval) where numbers necessitate Schedule: First Session – Pre- Bantam, Bantam and Novice wrestling will begin at 9AM Second Session – Intermediate, Schoolboy, and Cadet wrestling will begin at 2PM Weigh-Ins: 1) Friday 6PM to 8PM (All Wrestlers) 2) Saturday 7AM to 8AM (First Session Wrestlers Have Priority) 3) Saturday Noon to 1PM (Second Session). Wrestlers must weigh-in and make weight; there is a $10.00 Bracket Change Fee for wrestlers who do not make registered weight. Weight changes can be made up to close of registration. Skin Screen: Athletes must submit to a skin disease screening prior to weigh-in. The chief medical officer has full authority without appeal in determining the eligibility of an athlete to compete. Awards: Medals 1st through 4th (bracket for Champions) and OW awards for each division. Overall Team award for team with most team points scored. Championship and Consolation Championship matches conclude each session. Admissions: $5.00 Adults, $3.00 Students/Children, $10.00 Family For more Information, contact the Tournament Director Garrett House wavewrestlingclub@gmail.com (901) 289-3795

All, We are happy to invite you down to Memphis, TN for our 8th annual Mayhem in Memphis tournament on Saturday November 14th. Each year we have been lucky to see the number of high-level (national place winning) wrestlers continue to increase... we expect the same again this year. The previous two years we were just shy of 300 wrestlers, but our numbers were down a bit last year. The good news is that several clubs who couldn't attend last year are slated to be back this year and we are expecting our numbers to be back up to previous levels or above. Regardless of numbers we still had great competition with 6 states represented last year: Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, and Texas. We plan to continue our tradition of running a strong tournament that flows smoothly and offers competition for wrestlers of every level. The brackets will be split into beginner and advanced groups where numbers allow. This allows your newer wrestlers to get quality mat time at the right level and your more experienced wrestlers to get mat time against other quality competition. This tournament provides a great warm-up for the upper-level wrestlers headed to the Tulsa Kick-Off the next week. All registration will be handled via TrackWrestling. Full details are in the flyer text included below. Don't hesitate to call or write with any questions. We look forward to seeing you on the mat soon. 2015 8th Annual Mayhem in Memphis Youth Wrestling Tournament Saturday, November 14, 2015 Christian Brothers High School 5900 Walnut Grove Road Memphis, TN 38120 Entry Fee: $15.00 per wrestler. Deadline: 8PM CST Thursday, November 12, 2015. Late registration is $25.00 per wrestler. Coaches and wrestlers must have a current USAW Card. Additional division registration $10.00 per wrestler, please contact tournament director concerning these registrations. Registration: Online at TrackWrestling as Mayhem in Memphis VIII (direct link below) http://unapproved website/registration/BasicPreReg1.jsp?tournamentGroupId=193005009 For difficulties with online registration send email to wavewrestlingclub@gmail.com; please include wrestler’s name, DOB, club name, USAW Card #, division(s), weight(s) and last year’s record if available. Format: We will attempt to separate beginner and advanced brackets to optimize competition where possible USA Wrestling 2016 Age Divisions and Weights (September 1, 2015 to August 31, 2016) Double Elimination with Round Robin brackets with less than 6 wrestlers Bantam, Intermediate and Novice 1-1-1 (30-second overtime period) Schoolboy and Cadet 2-1-1 (30-second overtime period) Two certified coaches’ maximum in each competitor’s corner *Ages and weights may be combined (with coach approval) where numbers necessitate Schedule: First Session – Pre- Bantam, Bantam and Novice wrestling will begin at 9AM Second Session – Intermediate, Schoolboy, and Cadet wrestling will begin at 2PM Weigh-Ins: 1) Friday 6PM to 8PM (All Wrestlers) 2) Saturday 7AM to 8AM (First Session Wrestlers Have Priority) 3) Saturday Noon to 1PM (Second Session). Wrestlers must weigh-in and make weight; there is a $10.00 Bracket Change Fee for wrestlers who do not make registered weight. Weight changes can be made up to close of registration. Skin Screen: Athletes must submit to a skin disease screening prior to weigh-in. The chief medical officer has full authority without appeal in determining the eligibility of an athlete to compete. Awards: Medals 1st through 4th (bracket for Champions) and OW awards for each division. Overall Team award for team with most team points scored. Championship and Consolation Championship matches conclude each session. Admissions: $5.00 Adults, $3.00 Students/Children, $10.00 Family For more Information, contact the Tournament Director Garrett House wavewrestlingclub@gmail.com (901) 289-3795

As big as Nick's accomplishments were (super proud of him and excited for him) if he wants to receive a major ofer from one of the true power players he will need to back it up with some solid performances at the Junior level in Fargo or another major national tournament or two. Winning or placing at Cadets will get you on the national radar but it is also important to understand who you beat and lost to in the process. The rubber really hits the road at the Junior level as all of the wrestlers start to physically mature and move more towards the bodies that they will have in college to go along with the additional years to refine technique, mental approach, etc.

This was the only thing in the list that seemed like a big miss. I would take Michael Murphy over Pierce (John) Olsen. Most other things up there you could potentially argue one way or the other. Not one to knock any kid that wins a state championships but between these two I would take Murphy the vast majority of the time. If you compare accolades, it is hands down Murphy. If I look at it with an a more objective eye at how they wrestle, styles, etc. I would still feel pretty confident in taking Murphy there. Interesting topic for sure.

Huge win for Chalifoux... hate that I missed that one due to a meeting. Congrats on another AA finish. He now gets MO state champ Matthew Schmitt who was the JR GR runner-up to Duffield. Schmitt was also the JR FR runner-up last year at 113 where he lost to the aforementioned Mueller. He also had a tech fall over Navarro in that tournament last year.

Chalifoux defeates Sherman 14-4. Match was tied 4-4 well into second period when Chalifoux shot around same time as Sherman. Sherman injured his knee in process. Used all of his injury time but decided to try to continue with Chalifoux winning 6-4. From then on Chaifoux was able to score as needed to complete the tech. Now one win shy of AA and will face 18th ranked Dalton Duffield of Oklahoma who earlier in the tournament teched TN's Navarro 10-0. Duffield won the Greco-Roman tournament a few days ago but was beaten by Jack Mueller of Texas (#2 ranked nationally at 120) 13-2 in the championships. Duffield did not place last year but was the wrestler who injured / pinned Elijah Oliver in Fargo last year. Duffield was OK state runner-up this year to national #1 at 120 and #2 pound-for-pound Daton Fix.

Also, I don't think I posted it yet but Sammy Evans dropped his first consolation bout 0-10 to another wrestler from Iowa last night. Chalifoux is the only TN Junior still alive.

Trey Chalifoux picks up a 10-0 win over Feuer of Ohio. He is now two wins shy of earning AA status but the going will get tougher. His next bout is Zach Sherman of New Jersey. If I remember right Sherman is actually from Florida but now attends Blair Academy is thus representing New Jersey. I remember Sherman from several matches at the SE Regionals. If Chalifoux were to get by Sherman he would see the loser of the quarterfinal between Dalton Duffield (OK) and Jack Mueller (TX) which would certainly be a big win... just a reminder of how tough AA'ing at Fargo really is.

Chris Debien injury defaulted form his second match without ever starting it. He is now out of the tournament. I didn't see his last match but I can only assume he was injured in the loss to Marko.

Michael Murphy drops a tough (with lots of blood time) match 6-7 to Kanan Storr of MI and is elminated from Junior Freestyle.

I didn't see the match as I was watching Michael Murphy's match but Chris Debien lost to Hunter Marko of Wisconsin 0-10 in the round of 16. He drops into the consolations and needs three wins to AA.

Sammy Evans took a loss last night on the championship side to Gannon Gremmel of Iowa. Trey Chalifoux picked up another win in the consolations. He is now three matches from AA. He has Harry Feuer of Ohio up next. Murphy on the mat as I type this down 0-1 to Kanan Storr of MI.

King loses a high scoring back and forth match 17-16. He will wrestle for 5th.

Murphy took a tough lose at Jr 138 while Debien picked up a win and moves forward in the championship bracket at 132. I believe Debien has Hunter Marko of Wisconsin next. Sammy Evans is still in the championship side at 285. Chalifoux working in the consolations at Jr 120 but a long way to go to AA due to early championship side lose. I think he needs five wins to get another AA.