CPA4Ever

Most likely semi-final match ups are Macon Vs. East Lit and CPA vs. Maplewood.

Macon County has had a very impressive year. I remember last year Sycamore was overlooked a bit in the tourney, so I wouldn't overlook 9AA at all this year.

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yes this isnt right for 2 players from one team to have this honor..there are multiple choices TSSAA took away from another deserving player in AA ..suppose CPA brought this too ??

Yeh, they "brought" (try spellcheck) it - it cost $10,000 per spot to have someone as a finalist. That was nothing compared to the $50k we had to pay the refs for the EL game, and the $2 million a year we have to pay our coach. But whatever it takes.

I think AAU and summer camps and all that need to be cleaned up first for the elite players and then systematically bring the lower levels in line as well. They wouldn't be in it if there wasn't big money. Then, let's look at what we're doing as a society when kids are picking a sport to concentrate on in 4th grade and playing on 'elite' travel teams year round at such an early age. And their parents are all in man. They are shelling out the big bucks and putting the rest of the families life on hold to play 'travel ball' in search of the college scholarship and bragging rights. They get glassy eyed and refer to their athlete as 'we'. "We're not playing rec ball this year. We're playing elite travel." Give me a break!

 

I'd like to see the youth leagues regain control and get these rogue youth coaches and wildcat teams out of the mix. Teach fundamentals and having fun playing sports and being physically active instead of trying to parlay better than average skills into a college scholarship from puberty on. Then the high school coaches, guys with college educations that hopefully are in it for the right reasons, have a fighting chance at just producing good citizens, husbands and fathers. Get those guys to share their athletes with the other sports instead of hoarding them for....whatever reason it is that they hoard them and see what pans out. It starts with the parents though. They have to have perspective and I don't see much of it going around.

A well written and accurate post, but idealistic. As long as pro players at 19 can make 10 mil a year, and HS kids can get a guarantee of a $20K per year scholorship, things wont's get better. Suggest you sit back and enjoy John Lennon's "Imagine" - a great song about how the world should be, then the real world shot him.

One radical suggestion is to do away with state championships and have only a district championship. But really nothing is going to keep some programs from cheating. Liars lie and cheaters cheat!

So does that mean if you get on here and make one false uninformed statement (a lie), that "liers lie and cheaters cheat"?

This issue would go away if CPA just admitted their true identity. They are a DII school posing as a Class AA school. They have kids playing sports from multiple zip codes in Middle Tennessee. They use the 8th Grade rule to recruit talent. They have a basketball coach that played High Major ball at Vandy. They have an NFL player as their football coach. Is this all for the legacy kids at CPA from pre-first until graduation? Never has been. I don't see kids crying about not being admitted to CPA for academics. Have they brought in great math, english and science teachers? CPA is way down on the list of West Nashville's premier schools. One could safely assume that CPA is stocking up to destroy schools that don't have the advantages they have in sports. CPA should should look itself in the mirror and go play with the schools it's trying to be like. If that doesn't happen, the TSSAA should put them in DII on principle. On a side note, CPA posters should stop all this "Christian values" non-sense. I'm sure the lord has better things to do. Making sure basketball players play for Jim Jones over there is a reach.

Before you start assuming you know what the Lord has to do, and calling good people Jim Jones, and removing specks from other's eyes, I suggest you consider the log that is in yours.

I didn't start any polls. I'm just participating in the debate. And for the sake of argument, I would say that most people know what rules they are breaking while they are breaking them. They either hope they won't get caught or that they can ask for forgiveness rather than permission.

 

I have lot's of friends who send their kids to private schools for one reason or the other. That's fine. I am all about choice. My point is that we're exploiting kids to do it at times. Recruiting, attracting, whatever, at the private school level and public schools that open up the enrollment and do the same things. And AAU coaches or travel ball coaches or guys running camps that are in it for their ego and monetary gain rather than with the kid's best interests at heart. We are stretching rules athletically so that schools, coaches, donors, can benefit. Usually at someone else's expense.

 

As far as multipliers and the like go, I think the small rural publics are the ones suffering. Large urban schools can compete with numbers and athletes. Private schools can afford the best facilities and coaches their alumni and donors can afford, small county schools just are what they are. Stuck. Competitively speaking, they get the short end of the stick typically and in alot of cases their athletes aren't the ones getting recruited away from them. They just don't typically have the numbers to compete on the same playing field as those with more resources, either financially or physically.

Just a quick reply. I went to the Smith Co./Upperman football game this year. For a "small rural public", they had an beautiful large school building and campus, a great gym, and a better football field than most privates, including CPA. Not a whole lot different at Smith Co..

By the same token, don't cry when there's a multiplier, when the public schools don't want to schedule you and to get all defensive every time the 'recruiting' word comes up. Is the mission to have the best high school sports program that you can have to attract the maximum number of paying customers or to be christian based? It gets fuzzy sometimes.

First, there's been more crying AFTER the multiplier by publics than by privates. The only cryin' I have done about the multiplier is that after they did it to make things "fair", the private haters still aren't satisfied.

Second, didn't know the publics didn't want to schedule us. We had 6 games this year against publics outside of our district. Maybe they want to get better by playing good teams.

And lastly, it has been stated very well and many times on these boards, but here it is again:

Private schools are a business. They have no guaranteed customers (students) like public schools where kids are mandated to attend. As a business, they have to attract students to stay in business and they have to offer attractive programs, facilities, and staffs to do that. If they don't, they go out of business. A business that is trying to attract paying customers can still be Christian based, such as, Chick-Fil-A for example. Business and Christianity is not mutually exclusive.

Come on. There's a book about it. Nobody's making money?

 

Sure, there will be exceptions to every rule. In general, kids are exploited because of their athletic abilities from the time they first distinguish themselves from the rest of the crowd. Most of the people that can benefit from the kid's ability, take full advantage of it. The definition of exploitation. What can this kid do for me? How many high school coaches at a public school would tell a phenom that he would benefit by going to this private school or that prep school because the academics are better and they have more college contacts? How many private school coaches would tell a kid that he's better off staying in the environment he's in because the social adjustment and financial burden is too much for him to ask? None of them will. And if somebody thinks they can make a dollar off of him? Katy bar the door. It's become a kid brokering system and it stinks.

You sound like a liberal Democrat, blaming the system for exploiting people when in fact we live in a free country where these kids and parents have a right to make decisions in their life, whether you agree with it or not. These kids are not being drugged, tied up, and held in prison at these schools. That is real exploitation. You may not like the system, but who are you to dictate to a family what they should or should not do with their children? Don't participate in the perceived exploitation with your family, but it is none of your business what other families and their kids want to do.

Now which one of those great players had to accept a smaller role to play on a great team? Possibly a different role (I don't need to shoot as much), but not a smaller role which is usually defined in terms of PT - playing time. And normally that is going to be after their chance in the spotlight, part of growth and maturity, which is not the case in HS. I would have to disagree in this day and age with "Most players" unless it is a teeny,tiny bit of a smaller role as compared to a small role. Most players would rather play than sit the bench or play very little. Those parents may be clapping on the outside, but if they don't see their "baby" on the floor, I wonder how content they really are since no matter how it is wrapped, the high majority of issues with parents in HS are related to PT (unless they are in agreement with the coach on their child's abilities).

 

Agree, there are many motivations, but take out the one that says it is the HS coach who is the difference whether or not the student-athlete gets a college scholarship. I will give the benefit of the doubt and use the term "rarely" as opposed to the term never, but it is so rare should not be used as a consideration. Coaches take a look at the individual or the team because of the players, not who is on the sideline. It is up to the individual player to earn his college scholarship based on ability, test scores, and attitude lining up with a college program's needs and parents should quit placing that responsibility on his or her HS coach.

We can agree to disagree, but how can you dispute that any player who signs with a top college program (Duke, Ky., Kansas, etc.) does so fully aware they may not play as soon, as much, or score as much as they would going to a lesser team or mid-major?

And the coach and the perception of how he can help the athlete is a factor in kids and parents choosing a school. May not be a correct perception, but it is a perception, otherwise, why do players jump ship at schools when coaches leave? The question on this thread is not does the coach help a good athlete get a scholorship, but does the kid and parents think it will help.

I do not know all the various motivations that come into play for the players and their parents that end up at CPA - no one does, although some posters think they do.

As a former athlete and parent/grandparent of athletes, I do know that all athletes desire to be part of a talented, winning team that has a chance to compete for high rankings and championships, and a desire to play with the best teammates they can. Most players would rather play a smaller role with great teammates than be a star on a lesser team. That is true at all levels (case inpoint: Pros:Lebron,Wade, Bosh, college:Kentucky basketball; high school: Alcoa/Maryville).

I actually think that is more of a factor than the coach, recruiting, school, etc. although I do think the combination of what CPA offers the kid in that regard combined with what the school offers the parent (solid Christian based private education) attracts the good players.

I feel bad for the people who have to explain this to the kids who played for this knucklehead.

Could be a great opportunity for people to explain to kids that anytime we put a human on a pedestal we run the risk of disappointment. That's why we must put our minds and trust in the only ONE who never sinned or will disappoint.

It was my understanding that he wasn't playing that much. His sister would have also been a 4 year starter at Knoxville Catholic and never sees the floor.

Wharton is now starting after missing the first couple of weeks due to football. He is the point guard and averages, I am guessing, about 9 points a game. CPA starters:

Lindsey-so.

Alsmiller-so.

Wharton-so.

Bradshaw-sr.

Brown-jr.

I am sorry but I cannot believe what I am reading. The man broke the law, and if he is married, intended to cheat on his wife and more importantly his KIDS. How is he the victim or someone that deserves empathy? I will pray for his family but he knew what he was doing and as far as doing what he loves, he choose to put that at risk by doing what he knew was wrong. He will never work in a school again unless that school doesn't do its due diligence, how does one explain soliciting prostitution and still being a role model for young men?

 

I do not challenge any of your personal statements and undoubtedly believe that he had a positive impact on those he taught and coached but that chapter in his life is over and rightfully so. This is not a gaffe or lapse in judgement, this was premeditated with a complete understanding of what he was risking. I do not wish the man a life of judgement or ill however he should never be allowed to lead young men and women again. As an educator and coach it is instances like this that stain the profession and bring all of those that try our best to lead by example into scrutiny. I am no saint however I understand that my actions have consequences and that everything I do in my personal life is related to my professional life.

 

Best of luck to his family and FRA.

You are misreading the posts. Please read them again. No one is excusing Pack's action or sugarcoating them. Only one post mentions him coaching again, and is not condoning it. What most of the posts describe is sorrow that a man would do what he did, and sorrow for the obvious permanent damage he has done to himself, his family, and those who care for him, as well as for FRA.

What I read is a contemporary version of the story of Jesus caught in the controversy of the woman caught in adultery. Jesus did not ask people to condone her actions - He ask them to consider their own lives which, like ours, are not perfect. He didn't excuse her either, but He did show her love, grace, and mercy, and offered her a chance for redemption. We are called to be like Him.

I never take joy in seeing someone else damage their life, family, and reputation among hundreds he has been a positive influence on, including my son who played for him, and loved him, and my family who cared for him.

He made a huge mistake - it was not the first one and will not be his last. Such is the case with all of us in various ways. I will pray for him, his family and his recovery through the redemptive power of God.

I have no problem with a family wanting to send their child to CPA or any other school for that matter if its done correctly, however it does bother me when things of this nature happen. Lets don't get on here and act like CPA isn't recruiting because we both know that they actively recruit in every sport or as you like to call it "attract" athletes. My youngest son was approached by a booster of CPA when he was in middle school playing AAU so i do know what i'm talking about however i'm not saying CPA is any different than any other private school. CPA is a great school and they have great facilities for learning as well as sports. I'm not bashing CPA just stating facts thats all. I will get off my private/public soap box and leave that for another day and end with this thought. The officials and coaches at CPA know the rules that are sent down by the governing body i.e. TSSAA and they know exactly when a kid will be eligible based on when he last played. So to act as if they didn't know when this particular athlete was eligible based on what he did the prior year insults everyone's intelligence and makes them look a little shady, wouldn't you agree?

Well said; and enough has been said, so this is my last thought. I posted earlier that I do not know the details of the 8th grader messup. I was very clear that even though I don't know, I do know that TSSAA rules can be confusing and IF (I don't know) CPA asked for clarification (there is nothing wrong with that)and was misled by the TSSAA, I see no fault. I do know that until the TSSAA separates private from public, guilt will be always be claimed, sometimes justified and sometimes not.

CPA is just like all the other private schools in that they recruit young men and women to play sports for their school. This is the reason that they should be in a different classification i.e. DII along with MBA and Brentwood Academy as CPA recruits just as hard as these two schools do, the only difference is all the DII schools do it legally. Why TSSAA allows this to continue is beyond me.

C'mon, devil, with over 3,000 posts you should come up with something more thought out than this. "the only difference is all the DII schools do it legally" is so far misinformed. There have been hundreds of posts on this subject, so here is a review for you:

- CPA is a private school that charges tuition, not a public school that is free.

- Because they charge tuition, they have to have a product that motivates families to spend money they don't have to spend.

- Cirriculum, mission statement, religious studies, faculty, athletics, fine arts, etc. are all part of the product they must show excellence in to motivate families to spend money they don't have to. CPA has chosen to hire excellent coaches to attract student athletes. Some public schools do the same thing legally.

- CPA is not like DII schools because they do not give financial aid to athletes. If they did the athletes would be ineligible.

- There is a difference between illegal recruiting and legal attracting. The TSSAA sets those rules. Has this line ever been crossed with CPA? I do not know, but I do know they have the crosshairs on them all the time and if they are doing it illegally, they will be caught. I have no problem with that if it happens if they are doing anything illegal.

- If a family wants to send their athlete child to CPA instead of another school, under the current system, they have that right, and there are guidelines as to eligibility.

ANY QUESTIONS?

I have some friends that are coaches in and around the Nashville area and every single one of them has stated they have lost respect for CPA due what has happened there in the last couple of years. There may not be any illegal activities going on, but the perception is that there is. If there is CPA's time will come, just like BA's, MBA's, Grace Christian's and Signal Mountain's.

Reasonable post, and I agree in one regard:

If there is illegal activities, the truth will eventually win. To be honest, that is my desire as well. That is why I only defend on truth and I rebuke unfounded accusations.

People and organizations should not be judged on perception, but truth. If the perceptions are founded in truth, then the accusations are more than slander. I know one thing - when CPA's teams were losing, all this talk didn't exist. I also know, CPA lost a potential state championship in football in 2003-2004 because they self reported a minor violation that no one knew about,and accepted the penalty without complaint. Now that is FACT!

Once again your blind support of cpa has clouded your ability to read and respond to your own posts. My original post said cpa image and testimony are tarnished(which they are) and you responded saying there are no facts. The FACTS are there. And its the FACTS that have tarnished cpa.

I might add a fact to this discussion: you have participated in 12 threads as a CoachT member and 9 of the 12 (and almost all of your posts) have been about CPA where you have questioned their integrity. That FACT tells everyone you have a personal vendetta (for some reason) against CPA and that is the primary reason you post on CoachT. I think that is sad, but, hey, its a free world.

Once again your blind support of cpa has clouded your ability to read and respond to your own posts. My original post said cpa image and testimony are tarnished(which they are) and you responded saying there are no facts. The FACTS are there. And its the FACTS that have tarnished cpa.

Sorry, but your reasoning is flawed. The facts have not tarnished CPA. People like you who make assumptions about the facts tarnish CPA. I can claim you did something and tarnish your reputation (that is called slander in our society), but that doesn't mean you did it and it is factual. You continue to make assumptions about the history behind things that have occurred, but you do not know the facts about what has occurred.

Again, I do not know all background behind the facts, and neither do you.

Like i said in my first post. Another stain on an already tarnished CPA testimony. And by the way...everything I posted about students A,B and C were FACTS! So lets review:

 

Student A at CPA enrolls at another independent school(which gives financial aid)at the end of 8th grade due to financial reasons, ends up staying at CPA along with student A's brother as well. FACT!

 

Student B leaves independent school while on financial aid and enrolls in CPA which gives

no financial aid.FACT!

 

Student C leaves independent school because of academics and enrolls at CPA and repeats 8th grade and ends up playing varsity athletics when rules clearly state any student repeating 8th grade is ineligible to participate in varsity athletics the year they repeat 8th grade. FACT!

Your dislike for CPA is clouding your ability to read and respond reasonably. i never questioned your FACTS; I stated that those facts do not prove any impropriety. Once again, you are looking at facts that may be results of proper actions and making assumptions (not facts) about what transpired that created those results. Look at it this way. If a D student (fact) transferred to CPA and started making A's (fact), using your argument there had to be cheating involved (not fact), because you have a prejudice against CPA. Maybe there was cheating but maybe the grades improved honestly.

All I am saying is that your facts do not prove impropriety, and the proof has not been presented. They tell what happened, not why, and you are guessing at the why.

I think this situation has finally addressed an issue. CPA didn't do anything wrong from what I understand, however the "K-12" rule should be tweaked by the TSSAA. K-12 rule states that 8th graders can play varsity at schools that have K-12th grades in the same building. This is a great, but silent, recruiting tool that CPA has been clever to exploit. For example, when Lindsey is a senior, he will be playing his fifth year of varsity basketball. If they can continue to attract (or identify.. ?) young talent, the East Lits of the world won't have a prayer of winning Class AA or the other 96% of schools that don't have this luxury. I'm not saying CPA isn't playing by the rules. But, this will get out of control if the TSSAA doesn't do something to make things more balanced. Getting a kid from Greenbriar, Murfreesboro and getting a kid to repeat 8th grade at CPA after completing 8th grade at MBA screams CPA should probably be in Division II. MBA's weighted scale, regardless of the kids grade, speaks for itself. He should never played this year on that fact alone. Congrats to CPA for finding a way to make a basketball prep school in Tennessee. The football program is poised to follow the script.

I would have no problem if they made a rule that high schoolers get 4 years of HS eligibility.

OK CPA nation; defenders of truth and integrity, here is the facts.

 

Student A at CPA enrolls at another independent school at the end of 8th grade due to financial reasons, ends up staying at CPA along with student A's brother as well. Guess it just all worked out.

 

Student B leaves independent school while on financial aid and enrolls in CPA which gives no financial aid. Guess it just all work out.

 

Student C leaves independent school because of academics and enroll at CPA and repeats 8th grade and ends up playing varsity athletics when rules clearly state any student repeating 8th grade is ineligible to participate in varsity athletics the year they repeat. Guess it just all worked out.

 

Like I said... Another stain on a tarnished testimony. I don't think you want facts.

You use the phrase "guess it just all worked out" three times while at the same time claiming you know the facts. So you are guessing - you do not know. That is not consistent. What you are doing is looking at results of situations, and making assumptions about the facts that created those results.

Its like someone commenting on a friend's divorce and assuming the spouse they didn't like was obviously at fault. You can't look at results and make up the reasons for them. I don't know the facts, but they are coming, so I suggest we all just let things play out before stones are thrown.

OK, now let me get this straight, because this is a real head scratcher. Generally, what is being described is:

The Rule – An 8th grader repeating the 8th grade is not eligible to participate in HS athletics during that year.

The School – Certified him eligible and/or requested clarification on the player’s eligibility. (Why ask – Did you not read the rule?)

The Ruler (TSSAA) – Says the player is eligible and provides a start date. (Why - Did you not read your own rules?) then after 6 games they say the player is not eligible for the rest of the year (Why – Did someone finally read the rule?)

 

Are you kidding me? If true, I do not know if this is the basis for a Shakespearian comedy or tragedy (I never did understand Shakespeare very well).

Again, I have no facts (as none of us really do yet), but I can see how the above can happen:

The Rule and the School - Maybe(?) CPA asked the TSSAA to clarify whether he would be eligible Jan. 1 (as with some transfers) or not at all for the school year. Maybe they felt the rule wasn't clear, or they wanted to be certain. There is nothing wrong with asking the rule makers to clarify a rule. That's better than sitting him for the whole year, and find out later he didn't have to.

The Ruler - If they made a mistake, they are human. It shouldn't have happened but if it did they have no choice but to change the ruling, and CPA has no choice but to abide. It is a tough deal for the kid, especially if the family's decision on school choice was partially based on the erroneous ruling. As far as the 6 games he played, the 4 district games outcome wouldn't have changed, and CPA should not be penalized if it was a TSSAA error.

It's a bit like you choosing to contact the IRS about a "gray area" deduction, rather than trying to totally comprehend the IRS laws. You assume what they tell you is right, and you proceed accordingly.

Just another stain on an already tarnished CPA testimony!

I don't have the facts to totally defend anything, but if you do not have the facts to make accusations, you have no right to make this claim.

Here is all I heard (admittedly I do not know as fact):

- Player doesn't work out academically at one school

- Player needs to transfer out of situation due to academics.

- Player chooses another school. Free country - his family has a right to choose.

- New school submits eligibility paperwork to TSSAA to avoid non-compliance.

- TSSAA clears player to play.

- Player plays 6 games.

- TSSAA throws up red flag.

- Player immediately is benched.

- TSSAA admits mistake and player doesn't play anymore.

Now, IF that is true, where is CPA's fault? If it is not true, share with us the truth and the basis for your condemnation.

Any word on CPA's Bradshaw health? Will he be back playing this week?