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- Halls beats Powell 8 -7 on a walkoff grandslam by Austin Smith. Burton and Owenby both threw a ton of pitches, but Gresham (H) got the win and Skeen (P) got the loss. -Ugly game with a bunch of errors, but it sure was worth my 5 bucks.

yoadrian - - You win by attrition, because this is it for me. Explain to this public educated mind how you get 15 titles out of 27 is 68%? My limited education wolud think that was 55%. Why stop at the magical 27 years? 10, 20, 30, or total would make more sense to me. - My opinion is if there was one tourney, the past would probably predict the future. Just my opinion. I in no way implied this would hold true in a one vs. one match. - I'm not the most educated wrestling fan, so I listen when someone corrects me. That's why I looked at the data and was surprised, as I would not have guessed it to be that way.

conavy2 - - Sorry if I somehow offended you by saying to look at the past. I really didn't mean to hurt you - and I sincerely mean that. - I feel these posts are crazy between D1 and D2. I have been reading them for the past six years. I think it is not fair to get on here and post the day after a kid won the gold that he would lose to someone else he didn't wrestle(ie he is not really the best). - You will never read me say one kid WOULD lose to another - only what actually happened on the mat. Trust me, many kids won the gold last night after being told by the experts they couldn't do it. To them ALL I say congrats!! In my book they would all win the next match (if they had one.)

As I mentioned on a previous thread: -Pull out your program, look at state champs in the years before the split, see who one the most of them. DII schools won 2-5 out of 13/14 wieght classes. NEVER more than half. - My guess is nothing much has changed. DII schools would win about 2-5 weight classes, DI would win 9-12 of them. Again, check the program.

In Hoc - - How am I "skewing the stats"? Use of facts/data is skewing? Look at the WINNER of each weight class, the BEST one, and tell me why it wasn't even close!! - When you said look at who placed, are you saying current DII guys might not be able to win the gold, but they would be somewhere on the stand?? - Answer me this In Hoc, what does winning 70 - 80% of the gold mean if it doesn't mean they were better?? -Finally, did a 5th place medalist from DII at 160 last year actually lose to a NON-MEDALIST in DI this year (bowing out in the round of 16, after being on the stand last year?) That seems wierd if DII is so bad!

In Hoc - -We hear this DI vs DII comment every year. My challenge to anyone: -Buy a program, look at the 10 years or so before the split, see which schools won the most individual championships by weight class. Not hard to do, but you will see the current DI schools won about 70 - 80% of the time!! It is not close!! -Now, are you saying that since they don't wrestle each other, we can argue?? Or are you saying that before the split the DII wrestlers were crap, but now they are great?? -Finally, did I see a wrestler seeded at 160 from SD because he placed 5th in the DII tournamnet?? How did he do in the whatever you want to call it (lame/weak/men's etc.) tourney? Ask him which tourney was easier for him to place in.

tnko - - let me try to explain the math (as I understand what happened, ie I was not there) #1) As called - both wrestlers fighting for control, takedown given (incorrectly) then when control was actually gained reversal was awarded. Moon +2., Watson +2. Net result = 0 points. #2) What should of been called - no points awarded until actual control was gained, Watson +2, Moon 0. Net effect Watson +2. Thus, it sounds like a two point "net swing" away from Watson. How was the final point scored? Was Moon cut?

Congratulations on what sounded like an outstanding weekend of wrestling. I have to throw in my two cents: - Old saying "Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me". I applaud the Tenn. coaches and their decision. I think it is important to teach young men that sometimes you must stand up for what is right and not just take everything that is handed out like an idiot. I think they got to wrestle, did well, and had nothing left to prove. Time to go home. - I have been the tourney director for numerious baseball tourney's, and ALWAYS yielded to the conveince of the out of town teams. If games could be moved up and played on another field, I always did it. It just makes common sense. As a result, I always had teams wanting to come back from year to year. It was an AAU weekend event, not the southeast region championships! Sounds like the director was an arrogant ######, and was going to do it is way or no way. My guess is the decision not to move the matches up to an available mat made the decision to leave a no brainer. - Sounds like Kentucky and South Carolina teams have stopped going. I had the pleasure of going two years ago, and really enjoyed the event. Director was willing to move matches around, and everyone got to leave at a decent hour. Although Chatt. is about three hours, many of us still had a long way to go after Chatt. Again, I applaud the Tenn. coaches and would have approved of my son wrest;ing for these coaches.

I hear this dicussion every year, and every year most people say the d2 champs would win over the d1 champs. - Here is something to ponder: - Before the split in 1998, only one champ. Thus, the D1 schools and D2 schools went head to head. What were the results?? FACT in the last ten years before the split, 13 weight classes (14 for 3 years) yield 133 champs. What was the count? Current D1 schools = champs 98 times Current D2 schools = champs 35 times - Oouch!! Not even close. D1 better 3 out 4 matches. Again, not close. - I wonder if those years would have been split, would we have heard how much better the D2 wrestlers were?

BCBiii - - I had a similar experience 4 years ago, but in reverse. My son was an above average BBall player (averaged a double double on his Middle School 8th grade team). He quit BBall for, of all things, wrestling!! - After going around the state as a youngster for AAU BBall, and having the Variisty BBall coach tell him he could do both, I was a little broken hearted when he decided to put up his BBall shoes. - I knew nothing about wrestling, and LOVED Basketball! The wrestling coach assured me he could be pretty good, and Caleb decided he wanted to focus on one and not both. I tried for two years (9th and 1oth grade) to get him to play both. It didn't work. - Moral of story - I learned to love a new sport - wrestling!! Although I still don't understand all of it, I have grown to love it also. This past weekend was probably the most exciting time I have ever had at a sporting event in my life! Although I have never meet you, I would like to wish you the best with your childs new sport. Like myself, you may experience some new highs watching him. Again, best of luck to you!

- I don't think being ranked #3 in the state (Allen at 285) would be considered a sleeper. He is the real deal, and anyone who has watched him knows that - thus his #3 ranking. I think sleepers should be wrestlers with no rankings. - Trying to pick a no name - how about Kyle Stuff from Gibbs at 215? Tough draw with Phipps and Rodgers in his quarter of the bracket. Look for him to be a tough match for either or both. I think he has a victory over Worley, and from what I hear it wasn't very close. Note - I can't get Bray's rankings, so I'm going on Matman. If Kyle is ranked (I think he should be), then I will take him off my sleeper list.

Hey rigger101 - - Don't place any money on my boy at Heavy. I will explain when I see you, but don't be shocked at anything. Let's just say his chances would have been better 2 weeks ago or 3-4 weeks in the future. Not a good time right now. Tough match up against the BIG boy from Blacknman was not what he needed. - Not to make excuses, I saw the big boy from Mt. Juliet go against the big boy from Cleveland. Both look really tough, and I'm not sure if Caleb was in their league anyway. It would have taken the best match of his career to beat the Allen kid. He looks really good. I believe he (Allen) will cruise easily into the finals with Peters. Then we will see a great match. - If you get a chance, go to the "Georgia State Brackets" post by RMC, click on the flowrestling.org link and hit the 5A east button. On the left you will see a selection of videos - click on the Mena vs. Elaket 285lb match. Watch it (only 1 minute long) and tell me what you think of Mena. Then you will see why I said Caleb was very lucky to beat him.

gonavy2 - - Sorry to mislead you, but my son only MADE it to state as a freshman in 2006 - he only won one match. My observations were just that, observationss. That was my first time, and as I said I'm new to the sport (I was a Basketball guy) - I would have to agree with the rest of your post.

I am relatively new to the sport, but my son's first year at state (2006) I heard this debate. Since then here is what I have observed: - My son wrestled 215, and both had 2x state champs. Each side claimed theirs to be the best "by far". Funny thing happened in 2007. The 2x sate champ from D2 was a SR, and had to change schools to a D1. He lost a match that wasn't even close to a "new" D1 champ. Truth is, he wouldn't have beaten the #3 guy(my opinion) as the #1 vs. #3 semis went to OT. Regardless, the 2x D2 champ, had he been in D1, never would have been a state champ at all. (Courtney Coffee) - I thought I would watch in 2007 for certain matchups, and wait and see the discussion at the end of the year. In 2007, several state champs from both sides wrestled each other, with D1 guys winning most of them. Surprised me, as I was new. I also was surprised that the debate over which was best did'nt take place. - Last year (2008) I remeber seein a 3x D2 state champ lose to a D1 guy that hasn't won a title yet. (Tee boone at Knox Catholic) Although I think he will get one this year, I believe he beat a 2x D2 state champ this year. - After watching the past three years, it is obvious that D1 is MUCH deeper than D2. In 2007 and maybe 2008, D1's best was probably better than D2s. This year it might be reversed, time will tell. - Final thought, no division's best is ALWAYS better than the others. Remember that there are 14 weight classes, and any one (including myself) can find isolated cases to lean on. My two cents is they are probably very close every year. It's a shame they don't wrestle each other, but at least we get 28 state champs each year!

If I'm not mistaken, 2007 was a Wed. - Friday event. That means two of the past three years. I have to agree with rigger, three days off from school and work is a little much. Also, friday night finals are just not the same. As much as I enjoy UTC, this trend needs to stop or move it.