ie3

Amen Pujo! I was mightily impressed. I had heard he was a senior this year, but that was only a rumor. Anyone have any info?

I must defer to your superior experience in this area. I must confess that the picture I have in my mind of the private school (which I chose not to attend in my youth) is of the segregationist, class-oriented, snob factories (my mother would wash out my mouth with soap if she heard this!). I moved to the deep south just after integration, as the whites only private schools were set up ( thus my choice to avoid them), and then to the mid-atlantic states where the private schools were mostly to keep children of the upper-middle class and above away from the untouchables. Yes, I am biased, I realize it, and struggle to see both sides of the issue fairly. I was never privy to the close-knit community in an urban setting you describe. In fact, I never knew most of my next door neighbors. What you describe is exactly what I sought for my family when I returned home. It is exactly the sense of belonging, of family that is present at the small rural schools. The young men my son plays with I have know their entire lives, and their parents before them, and their parents before them. It is that part of our Southern culture that is so precious, yet can so easily be lost. Schools like Celina, Cloudland, and others, need to be protected for their cultural significance. Maybe not physically, but at least preserving the heritage. Oops, on my soapbox again. Anyway, if the atmosphere of the small private schools is as you say (and I have no reason to doubt you), consider yourself lucky, and priveleged (sic) to have experienced it. How does this bear on football? Well, that same sense of community can cause the members of the team to pull harder than they normally would, so they don't let down the people supporting them. If the sense of community is so strong in the private schools, could that be the infamous advantage we have been searching for?

I would agree. And that is just one of the reasons I moved back home to raise my family. Not only to escape Political Correctness, but to be able to have that sense of belonging to a community. You cannot achieve that same feeling in an urban environment. As to the separation of church and state, my son goes to a small rural public high school, and the principal is also his preacher. I wouldn't have it any other way!

I've read this discussion with growing interest the last couple of days. The conclusion I have come to is that all of you are partly right. As with most areas of contention, if you look at the two opposite opinions, the 'truth' usually lies somewhere in the middle. No coach can win championships without talent on the team. But a great coach can take a mediocre team, and achieve much more with them than a coach that is not as knowledgable. Conversely, no team can win championships without a good coach. All the talent in the world will only yield as much as the coach can motivate and guide them into performing. Does it take a great coach to have a good team? It depends on the talent level. Simply, the relative greatness of the team is dependant on the interplay between the coach and the players.

WGHS field has changed a good bit. Unfortunately the football situation hasn't. They are still barely able to suit up enough players to have a team. Alot like several small schools in the area.

I don't know if you have seen "The Range" lately or not, but they have improved it greatly with reseeding and grading. I haven't seen it this year, but it should only be better. Larry Bible does a very good job rehabbing fields wherever he goes.

Writer are you serious? All of the "worst" you mentioned are at their worst better than Cloudland's. Yes, CHS does see a lot of wear, but so do the others. When were you last on those fields? It couldn't have been in the last couple of years, they are as good as any average field out there.

Fantastic understanding of the problem Chakra! I only wish others on these boards understood both sides of the situation also. The private schools do have an advantage over very small rural schools. Cloudland is an exception to the rule, they have fantastic support by comparison to others. A great coach doesn't hurt either! Small schools not only support the football program with gate reciepts, they have to support all the other teams also. Booster club money typically has to be divided evenly between the sports also. Parent support is non-existent in some programs. Ours made the playoffs last year, and took at least 20 people to the first game, fans that is, we dressed 18 players. With that kind of support there is virtually no program. Something fundamental has to change, the parents. The parents need to be involved, supportive, and THERE! That is the biggest advantage I see in the private schools.

Can tell you that Tusculum wanted no part of him or his father. It's a Christian school, couldn't stomach the lying, cheating, stealing, or Eric either! Seriously, they loved the talent, but not the anchor attached to it. added 7/10 Have to eat my words guys. Eric is in Greeneville, working in my plant. He says he's going to Tusculum and trying out for quarterback. The coach is still publically denying that he will play ball at all. Have to admire the talent, but I hope he doesn't play there. Have to edit this once again. Eric no longer works here. Walked out last nite. Said he was going home. Who knows? Heard thru the grapevine, that Tusculum would not give him a shot. [Edited by ie3 on 7/10/02 4:17P] [Edited by ie3 on 7/12/02 3:07P]

Thanks silverpie, it has been more than 20 years... And to answer the other questioner, yes I remember Newman, and Evangel Christian. When I was there they were all white, upper income families. Newman was not a power then, and Evangel didn't make much of a dent either. Things do change... Just1np, you are correct, we are going around and around here. Does anyone know the answer to my second question from previous post? What course of action does the TSSAA allow member institutions when a percieved problem arises? Perhaps that is the correct method of putting some of these ideas before the powers that be, for the purpose of stimulating debate and pushing for equality. I think this applies not only to the privates, but to the magnet schools, and the large city schools that tend to attract athletes from other school districts.

Silverpie, it has been a few years since I was in La. but at that time there was a split. My high school team competed in the state semifinals 3 years running, there were no privates in the class. Some of the really large privates in New Orleans and Baton Rouge may have competed with the publics, but I was not exposed to that. My fault for believing there was a full split. All I can say is that no private played with our public school, or any they played, at that time. And there were nearly as many private schools as public.... the whole race thing you know. Most of these privates were white only, by whatever means necessary. Beyond all of our mutual experiences, the solution for Tennessee is going to be a long and difficult road. I think several of the ideas here have merit, or at least parts of them. I think the first thing that needs to happen to fix the public schools is to unify school districts, no more city schools taking away from county schools. That will level the playing field a little and save all the wasted money from duplication of administration, etc... I am still not convinced that one answer can fairly be applied to all private schools. What we have to remember here is that the private schools have intentionally, willfully, and absolutely separated themselves from the state school system. But, they want to be affiliated for the purposes of athletics. My first question is (because I don't know): Is the TSSAA a part of the state government, either throught the education department or any other department? If it is, then it is my contention that the private schools, by virtue of their separation, have no claim on the TSSAA for scheduling, or any other support. That would be providing state aid to a private company. Surely that is still a no no. If the TSSAA is not affiliated with state government, then the Association must address this issue. What is the recourse open to member institutions for an appeal to the current structure? As I have said several of the plans are workable, the trouble is determining the method of implementation.

I wanted to throw one in on the speed debate. Being one of those teams on the bottom of 1A. In fact, last time I looked, 2nd from last. We had more than 6 players with timed 40's under 4.85. We won 1 game in regular season. The speedsters... all under 5'8" and 150 lbs. Size matters too! That's a problem with a small area to pull players from. VG, Sorry, must have misread your post. Got the feeling you were coming down on the other side of the debate. As far as fixing problems... what can we do. I work in a factory that during the peak times employs 2500 people at an avg of $11 an hour. During slow times, less than 500. Unfortunately, in the rural areas we see more and more of this seasonal labor in the manufacturing sector. This leads to the lack of disposable income we see. The other very big factor I see is our greed as a society. We want all the goodies the TV says the city folks have. So, we spend all our money to get them. This is merely an aberration of the advertising agencies. I have lived in a half dozen states growing up, before coming back home to Tennessee. In all of them, the private schools competed in completely separate divisions, never playing against the publics. That is in areas as diverse as New Orleans and Baltimore. Until my son started playing, I never realized that the privates competed against the publics here. So it all seems a little strange to me. I think it all comes down to talent pools. Private schools need to be evaluated on the area they pull students from. It is not fair to lump them all together. A small private school in Jellico does not have the same advantage as a same sized school in say, Memphis. So where do you draw the line? I still say a committee should decided on a case by case basis. Whether it be by coaches, athletic directors, principals, whatever. I am having a wonderful time on this board because I have seldom seen such thoughtful debate on football. With most of us it is a very emotional topic. If I could figure out how to pass out good marks, I'd like to give one to most of the people posting on this thread.

VG, I know you sincerely believe what you are saying, and most of it is fair and balanced. What you, and some others lose sight of is the politics of the situation. The private schools have as their boosters, by definition, those families with more disposable income. While the small rural public schools have, by definition, families with less disposable income. This is supported by many of the posts on this and other boards that talk about athletes going to public schools because their families could not afford the tuition at a private institution. You might think I am biased by my situation, but be well aware I would send my son to the institution that offered him the best education if another were available. That being said, he goes to the smallest school in the largest (by area) county in the state. There are 5 high schools in the county. Fully 1/2 the money for budgets goes to the city system. Fully 2/3 of the sales tax goes to the city budget. With on 1/4 of the county population the city is to us what the privates are to most of you out there. I know for a FACT that the city school recruits some of the best county players. I have first hand knowledge of that. My son will never have anything to do with that. So instead of playing for an ET power, he plays at what amounts to one of the 1A doormats. PUJO will know who I am talking about, Cloudland was ahead I believe 4 touchdowns in the first quarter this past year. Now, the sarcasm was evident in your reply. The set of shoulder pads I alluded to was his second this year. The first became unusable when the wire holding them together broke. Yes they have face masks, all on refurb helmets that are in need of more refurb. The boosters, yes we have a booster club. Unfortunately, the money raised is divided evenly between sports. Somehow, I think football equipment is a little more expensive than, say volleyballs. Yes I am bitter. Not at the private schools, but at the legislature that continually short changes the kids. The division of funds I talked about, that is legislated in Nashville, where they have no idea of the daily struggle of the rest of the state. And by the way, where do the politicians kids and grandkids go? I don't want to make assumptions.

We can debate, we can argue until the cows come home. It all comes down to one thing, money. Money for coaches, money for equipment, money for facilities, and training. Even in these days, money to keep the doors open. At our small public school, 1A, if the budget is not soon passed, our principal will have to ask the coach to pick up 2 more classes in order not to cut curriculum. That is the monster advantage. How many of the privates have to use equipment that is older than the players? My son uses shoulder pads that MY uncle used in high school (has his name in them!)You will never see a private having to make those types of sacrifices. Our coach receives a massive $2500 a year to coach football. You will not see a private coach do that, unless things have changed in just the last few years. There are very big advantages to the privates, you just have to open your eyes to see them.

I think this is the most interesting scheme I've heard to date. It reminds me in a way of the NFL draft scheme, wherein the last place team drafts first..etc. It only makes sense to move teams up a classification if they dominate the one they are in. What about a council of coaches to evaluate the programs at years end to make that decision?

Any field with Cloudland on it! That is one of the best prepared/coached teams I have had the pleasure of watching.